There's virtually no point to melee in this game.

    • Throatcutter wrote:

      Honestly I cant comment... ....
      I'm convinced you've never played the game as a Melee. I don't understand why you can't comprehend that because Ranged does more damage than Melee with multiple defensive abilities including ones that outright completely nullify Melee damage exclusively isn't a problem.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      Why would you talk about parrying... ...
      I wasn't talking about Siegebow, I was quoting your entire post about Crossbows. Most of them was, "lol stand in place and parry!" like that actually meant something. You just ignored every single point of mine because you thought I was talking about Siege Bow exclusively? Are you joking? Not only do you lack basic english skills but your ignorant AND dishonest to boot. You have officially killed any credibility you could have had, which I assume you had to do to try to save face because you can't admit you're wrong.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      Almost everything in the game is purgeable... ...
      Yeah, and unfortunately that makes virtually every item that can be purged Useless as long as Mage Robe is as good as it is. It's a 58% damage boost with a toggle plate-armor defense and constantly 8 second insta-purge. It could be 4 seconds and it would still be massively broken. It outright destroys any weapon in the game that requires stacks. Hellion Jacket is especially hurt by it because any one of the people you hit with it can toggle mage robe instantly and cancel it, AND they get more armor, AND they still have higher attack than you. This means in a 5v5, if you have Hellion Jacket, you lost if you get it purged, but the effect is only usable in groups of people, so you have to hope that in multiple people they don't have one of the most common overpowered equips in the game, which never happens. Also, Hellion Jacket is expensive as a Soul Artifact while Mage Robe isn't even an Artifact.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      You are literally just making things up, STALKER... ....
      How? You say something, with nothing to back it up, no numbers, nothing, and I'm supposed to believe you? Again you already killed your credibility earlier, so how is Stalker Jacket the most popular besides maybe Yellow Hellgates because it's dumb cheap? I have never seen one in a Crystal GVG or a GVG in general, and I explained why: it barely does damage, it's range is point-blank, it's purgeable; it's not even good because it cuts your damage to the lowest Leather Armor can have at 20%. Why not give actual reasons why it's so used? Can you even do that? I actually just checked in an arena, it dealt 20 damage per tick. To a Mage robe. Before I purged it. Worthless item.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      Agreed, cooldown is kinda long, BUT... ...
      So does Hellion Shoes. And basically anything. Interupting targeted channeling abilities isn't a difficult thing to do and there's barely any of them in the game. The damage bonus works for precisely one attack (and is only a 40% boost that requires I think 5 seconds to fully charge?), if you use even most of the duration you lost the stacks on your weapon/opponent, and it is tied with the highest damage bonus at Specter Jacket. And the, "good defense" is a joke because you sacrifice something like potentially 28% damage for ~12% defense, which doesn't even matter if your target is ranged dealing damage to you while you're melee and not dealing damage to them. Way to completely avoid the crippling flaw again that if you move just a tiny distance it completely breaks the ability. Assassin Jacket is usable on a handful of weapons and even then it's not a meta pick. It's most useful trait is against Dungeon Divers to leash mobs onto them, since it doesn't instantly break like Invis Potions; or one of the many, "bomb" builds in ZvZ (of which Cleric Robe is generally preferred over).

      Throatcutter wrote:

      You are correct, a bow... ...
      It doesn't matter anyways because nobody is using it. It is quite literally worthless and usable on maybe one thing in the entire game.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      Watch the first video I posted.. ...
      "Watch this one specific instance where you can't tell all the variables but this thing worked in very niche circumstances on a fight we were already obviously going to lose". Seriously. Look at the stats on the item. It does 100 true damage every second at T4, it does 100 True damage every second at T8, it cuts your healing in half, it's leather AND on the lower end of defense for leather, and any damage bonus effects not only increases the damage you deal to people but also yourself. It isn't a thing. Arguably he could have done the same effect with a Stalker Jacket and been more effective and safer.

      Throatcutter wrote:

      or check my killboard... ...
      This is my favorite part. First kill, multiple assists, only did 17% of the total damage. Second kill, multiple assists, against a healer. Third kill, Multiple Assists, only did 10% of the damage. Fourth kill, was healing not using Melee or Leather. Fifth kill, multiple assists, only did 21% of the damage. Sixth kill, assist with a huge IP difference, was wearing Mage Robe; appears to have dove a dude in a dungeon just barely trying to level. Seventh kill, multiple assists, only did 36% of the damage. Eighth kill, multiple assists, did 62% of the damage that time! Ninth kill, multiple assists, did 46% of the damage. Tenth kill, multiple assists, did 0% of the damage. The Leather you use, btw, is Hellion Jacket; an expensive item and as I've stated along with Merc Jacket the only two Leather jacket options that are even remotely usable and even then they are niche (most melee can't use Merc and Merc benefits ranged a hell of a lot more, and Hellion is only usable in group fights otherwise it does nothing).

      Gee, what have I been saying this entire goddamned thread? That melee is a, "nice to have thing but it isn't for damage and it's more of a support"? I also mentioned that Carving Sword is Niche useful because it's the only sword that still deals damage after a purge and AOE shreds resistances ? It's also a DASH, that helps fix one of the issues I've been pointing out constantly in this thread, but not all melee weapons have dashes and speed boosts. Do you see why I don't give three flying fucks what your PVP Fame is? It's all assisting others, usually with odds stacked immensely in your favor. Even my very little PVP fame is the same way. PVP fame is absolutely worthless as a metric, and if you seriously think I don't know anything about the game or the game balance with over 900 arenas done you're more ignorant than I've already pointed it. I don't claim to be an expert, but at least I can back up what I'm claiming with some form of reasoning: you cannot. There is also something to be said that almost ANYTHING in the game can work when there's an IP, Skill, and Teamwork difference: if the only time you're getting kills are in team fights that doesn't change what I say. I'm not claiming I'm good at the game, I'm claiming I have hundreds if not thousands of battles under my belt of so many different situations, from group fights to solo skrimishes to 1vX all in Arenas all against both Meta and absolute troll builds.

      I don't feel like the game is in a good place to do wild PVP right now. The game is 100% counters and cheese. Ranged is multiple times more powerful than Melee, mostly because RANGED DOES NOT HAVE MANY COUNTERS AND MELEE DOES MAKING RANGED MUCH MORE RELIABLE TO USE IN ANY GIVEN FIGHT IN ANY GIVEN SITUATION, which is something I have been saying for tens of thousands of words now and is provable by looking at what's viable in most of the game's content and what team compositions are used. Is melee present? Of course. Is melee half of fights? No. Is melee dominant? Hell no. Anything right now that counters Ranged also Counters melee, and then melee has multiple complete shut-downs that prevents it from doing anything.

      I picked Daggers because when I started this game I wanted to do nothing but gank and small skrimishes, with no interest in ZvZ, potentially do 5v5s and the only dagger in the game that can do that is Deathgivers and even those are a counterable mediocre weapon. After almost 1100 hours of play time I decided to finally rant about it because I can't find a solution... lo and behold, nobody else can either and some people even partially agree with me. Instead of just calling people bad, I gave reasoning for everything I was saying. You didn't. You continued to berate and attack me by backing up absolutely nothing you have been saying, which doesn't help the conversation at all.

      If you want to prove me wrong, do so. Give me examples. Give me reasoning. Give me fucking help with my Gameplay so I don't have to deal with this garbage anymore and can start enjoying the game again.
    • Throatcutter wrote:

      I literally give up, you can ignore what I have to say because you clearly know best.
      I'm not ignoring what you rofl, when you do absolutely nothing to back up anything you say like OMFG STALKER IS THE MOST OVERPOWERED ARMOR IN THE GAME IT'S MANDATORY IN 5V5 ON ALL CLASSES IT MAKES BLACK MONK STAFF GOD TIER with nothing to back that up or even explain why, you don't actually say anything. You didn't even make a point, let alone an argument. I responded to every single thing you said with my reasoning, and you can't say anything back because you never said anything for me to respond with to begin with; all you succeeded in doing is giving me more opportunities to defend my points.

      EDIT: And GeoffreiCharny blasted your points as well, and that guy clearly has a ton of GVG experience. So you're just looking even worse. Why not defend your points instead of attacking people and looking like an ignorant jackass?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Acoustic ().

    • Throatcutter wrote:

      I literally give up, you can ignore what I have to say because you clearly know best.
      You could say this, but he hasn't, he responded to you with clear and concise explanations, you however have been less than clear. I can defend your position better then you can. You have used anecdotal evidence, which btw your videos don't help back up, they just prove that you have no idea of what is winning your fights for you. I can tell you really clearly what is the difference maker. CC and Burst dmg, unfortunately you are neither of those, your an additional dmg booster, but in a fight where 8-10 people are involved your dmg is neglible, the galatine with you is the only impactful melee player and he wasted it several times hitting people you'd already all hit before.

      You also have a good shotcaller, keeping you all mobile, reducing the impact of aoe rdps on you, your only threats are the mdps and would you look at that in most your fights they die hard being cc'd and burned to pieces trying to get in and out.
    • Ranged weapons are far easier to play than melee, and absolutely shits on them.The op provided plenty of facts to back up his claim, this is nothing new.Its just that the player base has accepted the worse and has been trying to do the best with it. That's why hellion jacket is damn near a requirement for melee in small scale, you literally have no real synergy with any of the leather choices.So why not be a sponge.

      If you want to see how bad melee is just turn on any gvg/crystal battle and observe the melee damage.What you will see is a melee in MELEE range being out damaged by ranged weapons.A melee user in leather / plate wont even move the health bar of the person in cloth with their auto attacks.All of the pressure comes from the stalker hood and your ranged dps doing the majority of the damage.You are a glorified execute bot that absorbs damage, That's it. Meanwhile the perma frost player is rolling his face on the key board removing over 50% of your teams health bar, while also being extremely safe. Meanwhile the bow is right clicking your health bar away, while having access to the best defensives in the game.

      it's gotten so sad, that broad sword players are using grave guard armor and stalker hood, because fck it you don't do damage anyways may as well fulfill a niche in the team, and maybe execute someone.


      In fact its soo bad that most dive comps only work because all the divers focus one target. That's how low the damage of melee is.Melee Dps is soo bad that a tank wep (forge hammers) out performs most MDPS wep, as it has an auto attack modifier, which is what all melee weapons need.

      And in ZVZ most melee weapons don't even see play. The only melee weapon you will see is galantines, and even then you are not wearing plate or leather , you are in cloth, and you function solely as a clap bot. outside of that you do nothing but wait around for others to do the work, as a result of fulfilling this only function, galas have to be able to one shot or they simply are useless, ( which is what happened to trinity spear).

      The only melee line , that functions even remotely properly is the dagger line, as a result of the armor peirce. And that's only in very specific situations. And even in those situations , such as open world, war bow outclasses them by far. Tell me when was the last time you seen a dagger pair player, or single dagger?

      If you want to play melee dps in this game and carry people? u cant. Your only real option is just to play tank, quarterstaff line is amazing, the tank weapons are amazing. If your trying to caryy hard as melee dps your only real option is Forge hammers/hunter jacket , and that's a tank weapon btw.

      And despite all of this , melee dps is still required. Which make this all the more sad, because someone has to fulfil the role as a secondary support.XD
    • Theat wrote:

      So tank weapons aren't melee?

      Only galatines used in ZVZ?

      What about the 100 halberd players?

      GVG? It sounds like you've never been in one. Tanks use melee weapons.


      Melee is stronger than DPS throughout the game. Ranged weapons need a buff.
      tank weapons aren't melee dps weapons buddy, you and I both know I made a clear distinction in my post , don't know Why u playing games.

      Yes halberd is played in ZVZ , but barely.You will rarely see a halberd in ZVZ these days or at all lets be truthful here, at most it will be one guy who is known for his halberd and that's it.

      No fame farm group is like , thank god we had that sword/axe/spear/dagger player, whoo that was a good clear speed.Literally no one.Instead this is how it goes.lf blazing , lf perma frost, lf ranged aoe dps.XD

      Ranged aoe dps doing more damage to a single tatget than a dagger XD
    • Midgard wrote:

      moking wrote:

      reads the title

      ignores the discussion
      Titles are important .. you should have come up with a more meaningful one rather than going the drama queen route.
      if you think the title of a forum discussion is more important than the actual discussion that has lasted for 4 pages , your literally retarded.


      that's like reading the title to a book "The invisible man" and then when asked about chapter 4 , you say its about invisible mann ..hurr durrr

      context and material matter.If you ignore it , you end up looking like a dumbass.
    • moking wrote:

      if you think the title of a forum discussion is more important than the actual discussion that has lasted for 4 pages , your literally retarded.
      Reading comprehension fail. I never said is was MORE important ... I said it was important. Youre starting to come across like a real asshat, which doesnt help in soliciting constructive replies.
      Midgard
      T8 Fibre, Ore, Hide, Wood & Stone Gatherer
      T8 Gathering Gear Crafter
      T8 Bags & Capes Crafter
    • Midgard wrote:

      moking wrote:

      if you think the title of a forum discussion is more important than the actual discussion that has lasted for 4 pages , your literally retarded.
      Reading comprehension fail. I never said is was MORE important ... I said it was important. Youre starting to come across like a real asshat, which doesnt help in soliciting constructive replies.
      back peddling and playing the victim SMH.

      You literally quoted me, and chose to pick on the title whilst ignoring the discussion. Thats literally saying the title is more important than the discussion.The quote even has both as the focus of your post.XD
    • to get the thread back on track:

      1) I used to use Stalker armor in small scale, 2v2 HG - basically situations where I have a healer. Its still kind of okay for that, but I've stopped using it there
      2) In solo - I now exclusivity started to use cloth. Leather feels very lackluster (aside from 1-2 niche builds that only work with a specific weapon, like what Equart is doing with Carving, or vertain 1-shot builds with daggers).
      3) Hellion Jacket (which I thought was the only armor that would allow me to fight 1v2 or 1v3, is actually wose at this job - because the benefit really kicks in at 5+ players, at which there is a 99.9% chance that someone will have a purge. So the usability use case) - contradicts itself
      4) Cultist Robe is much better (and more reliable) for 1v2 or 1v3 when getting dove. Plus the clear speed is faster, and most importantly - you kill mobs much faster, which means - you are at 100% HP if/when you get dove. Another huge PVP advantage.
    • Captainrussia wrote:

      1) I used to use Stalker armor in small scale, 2v2 HG - basically situations where I have a healer. Its still kind of okay for that, but I've stopped using it there
      2) In solo - I now exclusivity started to use cloth. Leather feels very lackluster (aside from 1-2 niche builds that only work with a specific weapon, like what Equart is doing with Carving, or vertain 1-shot builds with daggers).
      3) Hellion Jacket (which I thought was the only armor that would allow me to fight 1v2 or 1v3, is actually wose at this job - because the benefit really kicks in at 5+ players, at which there is a 99.9% chance that someone will have a purge. So the usability use case) - contradicts itself
      4) Cultist Robe is much better (and more reliable) for 1v2 or 1v3 when getting dove. Plus the clear speed is faster, and most importantly - you kill mobs much faster, which means - you are at 100% HP if/when you get dove. Another huge PVP advantage.
      Why are all 3 Artifact Leather armors the same thing? Stalker, creates an aura that deals damage to enemies. Hellion, creates an aura that deals damage to enemies and heals you for that damage dealt. Specter, creates an aura that deals damage to yourself and enemies. That right there REALLY limits what Leather is capable of. Compare that to Druid Robe's massive boost in power, Fiend Robe's AOE fear aura, and Cultist Robe's busted HP/SP heal with invulnerable to physical damage; there's a huge variety of different skills there that... maybe follow a power curve based on rarity of the relic?

      Isn't the entire point that the Artifacts should be more powerful the harder they are to obtain, so Relic items should be the most powerful abilities? But at the same time every ability should have a seperate use, like how Mage Robe creates a purging shield that gives you armor or Cleric Robe making you invincible and giving you more damage.

      This may have something to do with why Artifact Leather is really weak and makes the entire line seem less desirable. You could forgive Assassin/Hunter/Merc jacket because they all do different things that, while niche, have their places... but the artifacts are all basically the same thing which drastically limits it's application

      Here's my ideas of how to fix everything

      Ambush (Assassin Jacket)
      Current: Turn Invisible for 8s. Your first attack out of invisibility will have increased damage; the longer you stay invisible, the higher damage buff (maximum 40%). Attacking or Casting breaks the invisibilty. You will also become visisble if you more too far away from the activation spot.
      Suggestion: Turn invisible for 8s. Your movement speed is increased by 60% while invisible. On your first attack, all abilities will have increased damage for 3 seconds; the longer you stay invisible, the higher damage buff (maximum 40%). Attacking or Casting breaks the invisibility. You also become visible if you move too far away from the activation spot.
      Reasoning: All around a more usable ability. This allows you to close distance better if you're melee, get away if you're ranged/gathering, and potentially toggle something that would refresh your weapons stacks and help you land your next big attack. You're still limited by the activation spot and the long CD.

      Haste (Hunter Jacket)
      Current: Increases normal attack speed by 60%, and damage by 20%, for 8s.
      Suggestion: Increases normal attack speed by 40%, movement speed by 30%, and damage by 20% for 6s.
      Reasoning: More movement speed means that you have a better chance of getting close to the enemy and using it's effect. I didn't want to axe it completely because apparently it is currently useful on a few weapons. Yes, kiting builds like Spears/Warbow/Crossbows can use this as well, but they're trading things out like Mage Robe to use it which might not be worth it.

      Bloodlust (Mercenary Jacket)
      Current: Everytime you damage an enemy you heal yourself for XX. Lasts for the lower of 8s or 15 hits.
      Suggestion: Everytime you damage an enemy you heal yourself for X%. Lasts for the lower of 8s or 15 hits.
      Reasoning: Right now it directly only helps Axes and a multitude of ranged weapons. This change would still make it usable on Axes, but far more useful on all melee. If you attack fast, it's a heal but it's not as powerful. If you attack slow, you gain more health in bursts but your healing is slower. This changes the power dynamic from faster, weak attacks like DOTs to leveling the field for everything.

      Electric Field (Stalker Jacket)
      Current: Unleashes an electric field around you, dealing XX damage twice per second to every enemy around you. The field lasts for 8s.
      Suggestion: Unleashes an electric field around you, giving enemies that strike you the Static Cling debuff that reduces Movement Speed by 20% per stack (maximum stack of 5) and lasts 6s. If an enemy attacks you again after having maximum stacks they will explode, dealing XXX (minor) damage and rooting themselves and all enemies within Xm of themselves for X.XXs.
      Reasoning: Keeps the lore of the, "Stalker" name and ability, while giving an effective counter to most ranged builds by slowing them and then trapping them in place if they don't pay attention, as well as potentially hitting multiple ranged attackers.

      Life Steal Aura (Hellion Jacket)
      Current: A 7m radius life-stealing aura surrounds you for 8s. The less health you have, the more life it steals. Minimum (own health over 80%): Steals XX life per second. Maximum (own health under 20%): Steals XX (double) llife per second.
      Suggestion: Number tweak/scaling tweak.
      Reasoning: It's one of the few Leather Jackets that is currently usable, but it's really only effective against large groups. It should gear itself to be more useful for 2-3 targets and less useful for 5-6 targets; but I also hear if you can get in the back line in a ZvZ with one you're basically unkillable because of the massive healing.

      Self Ignition (Specter Jacket)
      Current: Damages yourself and enemies around you in a 6m radius. While active it also reduces your healing received by 50%. To yourself: Deals 50 true damage every 0.5s. The enemy playerss: Deals 50 true damage every 0.5s. To enemy creatures: deals XX damage every 0.5s (this number is the only one that scales as IP goes up).
      Suggestion: Judicator Armor is meant for ~10 Players and is a defensive ability that is stationary. Cultist Robe is meant for just it's user and is a defensive ability that is stationary, but heals. Specter Jacket should probably either be a defensive ability that's meant for 2-5 players or a damage ability meant for everything. Right now it's effectiveness is dubious, maybe it should be changed to a % based on health? I'll be honest, I don't know what to do with this ability. Is it useless? No, but it's very niche.
    • I am going to chime back in here because for the first time I actually agree with 1 of your suggestions.



      Merc jacket healing for % - I agree it would make it more use able for a wider variety of weapons, although some builds would get even more OP would take some balancing 1h curse for example would get the dot heals and then a huge bomb heal as the death curse went off.



      That being said, some of these suggestions I'm pretty hard against.



      Assasin jacket move faster while invis? As if invis ganking wasn't a huge plague already, it would also make gatherers easy prey as they would pop ambush moment they saw offscreen tag and if the gatherer didn't spot it they would be on them before they saw anything, it would also give rise to easy invis brimstone bombing etc, too many sketchy builds in my head with this.



      The hunter jacket adding move speed? Sorry this just gives rise to too many kitey builds, albion already has issues with kitey builds and rats it would break the game.



      Not going to comment on specter.



      The hellion and stalker I'm happy with, the only change I would like is maybe another 5-8% dmg bonus bring it up to Assasin jacket level, this wouldn't break the game and the current abilities already fill a role well, but honestly they are pretty good already unless your talking about solo play, but who actually does solo content in leather aside from equart? You wouldn't run it in plate either, cloth is just more suited to that role, but then you wouldn't dance in the enemy backline wearing cloth, leather is more suited to that. And you wouldn't run hard cc and sit in front of your front line in cloth either, plate is better suited to that.

      Don't get caught up trying to compare one armor or weapon line to another which is where I think you have gone so wrong with your thread, they all fill a role or purpose, find what you enjoy and own it. It's not all about max dps and brimstone claps.

      I guarantee if you took the time to spec up leather and melee and use it in its correct role, and expand your awareness of counter play you will find its actually far better than you think it is.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Throatcutter ().