Focus Fire, resilience penetration and aoe escalation

    • Focus Fire, resilience penetration and aoe escalation


      Hi everyone!
      I already wrote this…s-builds-bows-and-spears/ 1 year ago
      I'm still loving auto attacks oriented build, even in zerg. I'm 400/400 on spears and bows and i still play them regularly
      And today, i will complain about my situation, my spears and my auto attacks oriented bows in zerg

      I think I can say that with Queen update, the game focuses even more on ZvZ content (Gj btw, I love this patch), that's why i request changes for some of the zerg mechanics or at least on resilience penetration
      Since i started the game in the last beta, focus fire, resilience penetration and aoe escalation never had any changes whether in the mechanics or in the balancing of weapons.

      I am aware that spears and auto attacks bows are balanced for small content (pk, gvg, dive dungeon..)
      But, what is preventing the dev team from modifying at least the resilience penetration on certains weapon..?

      Nowadays, i feel that's unfair to see galatines having 40% resilience penetration and take advantage of a big aoe which allows One shot 5/10 people due to aoe escalation.
      My trinity spear got only 15%.. and it's a Mono dps with a 3m radius aoe. So, in addition to being penalized by my little aoe and never benefit aoe escalation, i'm penalized for my dps if somebody deal damage before me
      Whispering bow don't have any resilience penetration because it's a ranged weapon, but don't you think, it could be nice to provide some resilience penetration.? it could be a better counterplay to melee dps in zerg than the reflects.
      And this is the case for so many weapons..
      Resilience penetration seems totally illogical, glaive got 50% and other spears got 15%. tombhammer (little aoe) got 30% and grovekeeper (big aoe) got 50%. why does bloodletter got 75% and the 1h spear got 15%?
      To my mind, Resilience penetration should have been designed to help mono dps/small aoe build to find a way to be useful in zerg.
      And aoe escalation, should be nerf. It always have been problematic for balancing the ZvZ. once, the damantion staff is op.. once, galatines are op.. Whenever a dps weapon is aberrant in zerg, it's always a very large AoE.

      Zerg disarray is a cool way to buff outnumbered fight. but aoe escalation, focus fire, and what it implies actually: no.
      The ZvZ in this game has changed too much for those old mechanics, and it's time to rebalance (weapon per weapon for the resilience penetration) or/and nerf the aoe escalation to create diversity in zerg and allow little builds to find an utility
      In general, I think that each branch of weapon should have its representative in zvz

      PS: the bloodletter is the only dagger who have hp bonus. why?
      PS bis: specter jacket deal true damage but is nerfed by resilience penetration, which don't allow 1h spear to deal damage with in ZvZ.. once again it's pretty unfair for me..

      Thanks for reading and reply to me @Retroman ! <3
    • i just read the last NDA balance playtests and I would like to come back to one point..

      • Inner Focus (all Spears)
      • Move Speed Bonus per stack: 8% -> 5%

      This is the spell i play with my trinity spear in zerg for the buff ms, the bonus damage and the bonus cc duration. i press "w", i jump in with my "e" in a repack for some damages and a good control.
      I understand that this spell is quite broken for the 1vs1/2vs2 content..
      But I feel neglected for the spear in ZvZ content.
      Spears needs a compensation! :(

      if you need a proof, that i'm playing this in ZvZ i've got a video

      Thanks for reading!
    • Imo the biggest issue here is the fact AOE escalation exists at all.

      Isn't it good enough for a Galatine to hit 15 people with their nuke while a Bloodletter might get lucky at hitting 4 in a row? (I don't even know if AoE escalation applies to Bloodletter since it checks the damage trigger individually for each target, not all at the same time).

      I think removing AOE escalation in itself would dramatically buff weapons which are single target....

      Remember AoE is suppose to be about sacrificing single target kill pressure for efficient effects spread over multiple targets. If AoE escalation exists, it completely nullifies the entire weakness of AoE abilities as they get greater kill pressure than say a bow.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by OceanSpirit ().

    • Yeah spears are next to daggers in "not bring it to ZvZ."

      I really never thought resilience penetration was noticeable, but sheesh.

      The thing with spears is that the Spirit thing really try to make you do auto attacks. In 5s i get, but in big ZvZ to small. You dont really go all out on poking the enemy to death.

      I wonder if a new Q with new Spirit comes out.

      Yo Shoco, any spear builds u got in mind for ZvZ. Was messing around with 1hand spear/mist cleric cowl/hell jack/demon boots.

      I ran the W cripple to counter the galas.
    • Excuse me for insisting @Retroman
      With this graph, My problem is highlighted.
      The melee weapon with 15% resilience penetration are REALLY REALLY weaker than every other in zerg. In most of cases, Spears will deal less than ranged dps cause of zerg buff.
      Spears don't have any big AOE, They deserve a up in zerg to be playable! Please, up the % of resilience penetration!
      Thanks for reading.
      • Capture2.PNG

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    • I really want to give you a counter argument that weapons have small resilience values to balance weapons for zvz and control what we see and what we but tbh most resilience values seem very random. Like wtf does battleaxe, forge hammers or broadsword have 50%, no one in their right mind should or ever could bring these weapons to a zvz. The game is full of these odd balancing quirks and I am quite certain that it will stay that way for a while.
    • AOE escalation is pretty useless in small scale (it begins to add up damage when you hit 7 or more people at the same time, aoe escalation begin when you hit 3 or more people)
      Focus fire is useless in small scale (you die anyway if you get ganked by 3 or more people). People telling it's usefull when you get ganked by 3-5 people i'll tell you that making you die 1s slower doesn't matter.

      Zerg debuff is like a close concept combination of aoe escalation and focus fire. For zerg all thoses mechanics combined togheter is a clusterfuck in damage calculation that is actually impossible to balance op weapon for zvz without fucking in everything else and maybe the whole weapon tree.

      IMO FF and AOE escalation should be removed completely from this game and Zerg debuff should have :
      Damage dealt debuff (you deal less damage) + Damage revieved debuff (you recieve more damage) + The current Healing reduction and cc duration.

      That would make weapon balance much more easier to pinpoint and work on it without destroying the weapon or a weapon tree because of a type of content, make mono target builds more relevant for small scale and even zvz and doesn't change much very small scale aspect (since AOE escalation and FF are irelevant for this type of content and FF won't save you from being ganked 1v5 1v10 1v20)