Standtime on auto-attacks and why you will never see auto-build being consistently good in this game

    • Standtime on auto-attacks and why you will never see auto-build being consistently good in this game

      QUICK TLDR
      TLDR for lazy readers : Too much standtime makes presence of auto-attack builds almost inexistant. Charts to weight my argumentation then i give 3 solutions that are all 3 version of the "reduce standtime on auto-attacks"

      CONTEXT AND PROBLEMATIC
      In the world of portal gankers in 4.1 overcharged claws,kite city warbow, brimstone/galatine mlg 20+kill oneshot, frost/crossbow/swords 5v5 gvg mafia, purges and OS builds everywhere, etc, etc... We are in a weird situation of SBI proposing weapons or spells designed around auto-attack but it finds little to no succes (at least for a long period of time). I get thoses questions from newcomers that ask for a specific build about normal/whispering bow and i never propose any AS steroid. Then they ask why no hunter jacket or morgana cape and i tell them that ironically even if they are designed to synergise perfectly with auto-builds they bring us down more than they help.

      So to put into context. We are in a situation where you will almost never see a decent presence of thoses auto-builds. Let me explain first...of course at some point trinity was amazing in GvG, normal bow and whispering bow was very good, forge hammers was crazy good just recently and now it's okayish but they were good simply because they were naturally overtuned or some gimmick was carrying the weapon, in open world whispeing to tag some gatherers by surprise but yeah no more than that. Simply put, auto-buils was never naturally good.

      Now why is it not that good overall? Because most of them are buff reliant and it's easily counterable by purge? Well yes but no, i think having a counter is actually good for the game (well i rather would see less purges spell and only avaliable on a specific weapon or two. Because of the damage? Not really... damage can be really good depending of the build and it scales with AS the same way as cast time reduction on casters. The thing that drags auto-build down is standtime.

      When i heard about auto-attacks, i see that little quick interaction that deals smalls damage but doesn't imobilise you at all... something that is always good to have in our back between cd rotations without costing us much... at least that's my experience in most of the games i played. For some reason in Albion Online, for an attack that deals on average 3 times less dps than spells i get as much or more standtime than the majority of spells in the game. So we are in that weird situation when you have to thing twice if you want to auto-attack somebody or move.

      To put it simple, the actual state of auto-attacks makes it a very unreliable source of damage in every situation possible. Ganking, chazing, fights, kiting, etc... Unless relying on heavy CC to compensate the lack of mobility for auto-builds, you better use other weapons with spells that has less standtime than autos or simply play a fire/frost mage if your type of gameplay is to smash q and be a machine turret.

      I've passed thoses last weeks gathering data about weapons animation, trying to find values about stantime on auto-attacks, testing stuff, etc,etc in order to give you some background into my statement.

      You have just Below a chart about type of animation, weapon categorised in thoses type of animation and the standtime
      Display Spoiler

      Type of animationWeapons in the categoryFrames per 60 fps / standtime
      StaffAll curse exept Cursed Skull
      All frost exept Permafrost Prism
      All arcane exept Malevolent Locus
      All holy
      All fire
      All druid staff
      24 frames / 0.4 standtime
      OrbCursed Skull
      Permafrost Prism
      Malevolent Locus
      24 frames / 0.4 standtime
      BoxingAll Quarterstaff
      Dagger pair, Claws, Black hands, Deathgivers
      24 frames / 0.4 standtime
      1h slice1H Dagger, Bloodletter
      1H Hammer
      1H Mace, Incubus, Bedrock
      Battleaxe
      Broadsword, Clarent
      16 frames / 0.26 standtime
      2h sliceClaymore, Carving16 frames / 0.26 standtime
      Dual wield sliceForge Hammers
      Bear Paws
      Dual Swords, Galatine
      16 frames / 0.26 standtime
      1handed trust1h Spear, Heron24 frames / 0.4 standtime
      2 handed trustPike, Glaive, Spirithunter, Trinity
      Polehammer, Groovekeeper
      Halberd, Carrioncaller
      24 frames / 0.4 standtime
      Missle shotAll Bows
      All Crossbows
      24 frames / 0.4 standtime
      SwingGreat Hammer, Tombhammer
      Heavy Mace, Camlann, Morning Star
      Greataxe
      16 frames / 0.26 standtime
      ScytheInfernal Scythe16 frames / 0.26 standtime


      We can see a few things here :
      1) There is actually 2 possible standtime atm for all 90 weapons in the game 0.26 and 0.4 standtime
      2) It's actually hilarious to see at least for a good chunk of weapons that they have more standtime than most of spells in the game for something that does most of the time 3 times less damage
      3) More subjective but, i don't get how something super heavy has less standtime than a mage staff that is literraly easy to wield. By logic it should be the contrary (Don't get me wrong i'm not into nerfing weapons that has smaller standtime than staff n' stuff, i'm here trying to bring auto attack a reliable source of damage for every situation)

      Now to show how this standtime scale on your movement in between auto-attack, see the chart below.
      The math for the distance done per second is as follow : 5.5*(1-(Standtime*attack speed)) = Distance in meters
      Display Spoiler

      Attack speed (right)
      Standtime (below)
      0.670.81.01.31.82.02.5
      0.264.54m4.36m4.07m3.64m2.93m2.64m1.93m
      0.404.03m3.74m3.30m2.64m1.54m1.10m0.00m





      As we can see high standtime basically transforms you into a machine turret since you can't move. The reason you see normal bow being immobile when fully stacked is because it naturally get's 2.47 AS => permanently in standtime => can't move. (unless he decided to not spam auto when it's up)

      For this reason you will never see auto-builds being a thing playing consistently unless it's broken by stats or with some sort of gimmick (hello enchanted quiver swap whispering bow).

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Owlsane ().

    • IDEAS AND SOLUTIONS
      Now i'm here to propose solution and guess what, they're all "Reduce standtime of autos" but i have 3 variants possible :

      1) Put all weapons with 0.2 standtime on auto-attacks (in the end they're imo not logical about what should have more standtime if we see IRL stuff being used)
      2) Having an adaptative standtime based on you're actuall attack speed. That means if you use attack speed steroid or you get your AS reduced the standtime evolves accordingally

      Here is an example of that iteration. The standtime maths works likes this. 0,3/AS = Adaptative standtime
      Display Spoiler

      Attack speed0.670.81.01.31.82.02.5
      New adaptative standtime0.450.380.300.230.170.150.12
      Average distance done per second3.85m3.85m3.85m3.85m3.85m3.85m3.85m


      3) A variant of the second one. Standtime will be based of the weapon's base attack speed. Example below with the result of that change :
      Display Spoiler

      Base ASWeapons concernedNew standtime
      1.4Dual Swords
      Galatine
      0.20
      1.3All Arcane staff
      All Curse staff
      All Fire staff
      All Frost
      All Holy staff
      All Nature staff
      All Bows
      0.20
      1.2Bloodletter0.20
      1.1All Daggers (exept BL)
      Heron Spear
      1h Spear
      Boltcasters
      0.25
      1.0All Quarter staff
      Light crossbow
      All swords (exept dual and galatine)
      0.25
      0.9Battleaxe
      Glaive
      0.25
      0.8Spears (exept heron /1h/glaive)
      Axes (exept BattleAxe)
      Normal crossbow
      Weeping repeater
      Hammer
      Forged Hammers
      Incubus Mace
      Mace
      Bedrock Mace
      0.30
      0.67Heavy Crossbow
      Siegebow
      All Hammers (Exept forged/ Hammer)
      All Maces (exept mace/incubus/bedrock)
      0.30




      Attack speed0.670.81.01.31.82.02.5
      Distance per second
      with 0.20 standtime
      4.76m4.62m4.40m4.07m3.52m3.30m2.75m
      Distance per second


      with 0.25 standtime
      4.58m4.40m4.12m3.71m3.03m2.74m2.06m
      Distance per second


      with 0.30 standtime
      4.39m4.18m3.85m3.56m2.53m2.20m1.38m


      The first solution is a lazy approach since SBI made the effort to actually put 2 different standtime, the second one is quite crazy but gives more synergy and good reasons to actually build AS steroids on auto-build. Lastly the third is my preferencial choice since is more balanced than the second but follows kinda the logic.

      CONCLUSION
      This topic is all about giving a real role / viability and a real comfort for auto-builds. Making it a trully AS dps with decent mobility and finally stoping the turret gameplay that frost and fire offers us already. I know thoses kind of change might make some weapons overtuned and it will prolly be ok to nerf them a little but in the end my goal is to offer a real viability for thoses type of weapons in every aspect of the game.