1h dagger needs a teeny bit of love

    • 1h dagger needs a teeny bit of love

      Hi,

      As we all know, not a single person is playing 1h dagger. In order to get 1h dagger to be played by like three or four people, I propose the following changes:
      • Make the E buff last 2 seconds instead of 1 second (it should be more like 8 seconds but I don't have my hopes up for that one)
      • Remove the health drain


      Thanks for reading.
    • A much greater buff uptime would help. I don't even consider such a change a buff to the weapon, but more a hotfix that they should put into the game in first patch after Queen. One second of buff time, taking into account networked games and latency, simply doesn't work. You are forced to take attack speed on all passives and use a torch and it still doesn't help (and now you've lost out on other passives/armor types). Once this fix is in, it would be easier to see exactly where the 1h dagger needs fixin'

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Zlexak ().

    • Daggers in general need some QOL upgrades in general.

      The Q spells are lacking. Sunder Armor is decent but it's amazing how it has a shorter reach than your auto-attack and it's nearly impossible to land even when mashing the button on a target that's moving. Why it doesn't slow is beyond me as kiting is one of the major weaknesses of the entire line (in contrast to say the Sword's Q stack which gives you movement and attack speed). Same thing with Assassin's Spirit: it's a hard timing ability that requires several seconds to build up... an 18% damage boost. For a few more additional seconds. And you're taking increased damage with it up. Have it increase your movement speed at the same time to help daggers land those abilities. The only weapons trying to use Assassin's Spirit are Dagger Pair and Deathgivers.

      W spells are pretty good all around, but they don't seem to synergize well with your Qs and mainly you're only going to be using Dash or Shadow's Edge (with an occasional Forbidden Stab). Fan of Knives doesn't last very long and has a huge cooldown, Infiltration takes a laughable amount of time to pop off, and Chain Slash is the only AOE move you're getting and not only is the damage sub-par but you can't control where you end after you use it.

      1H Dagger definitely needs more of a DOT effect with it's E, as it's nearly impossible to continue hitting something that is actively moving and the buff isn't up long enough to do any kind of significant damage. What I'd like to see more is a crippling poison effect that lowers defense by a percentage value so a 1H dagger could potentially be a tank killer which is a rarity in Albion. You cannot farm with this weapon.

      Dagger Pair isn't bad, but the problem is everything stops it's E. Everything. A high damage E isn't even unique, but the Dagger Pair's Slit Throat is way too easy to counter with any kind of CC regardless of the duration or even a blink. We're talking about an ability that, to be effective at all, requires a lot of set up and timing to accomplish anything with. You're not slapping a fatroll on the keyboard and lolazoring like bows or curse. You cannot farm with this weapon.

      Claws are only used for ganking and even then they're pretty poor at it relying on your associates to actually deal the damage while there are other abilities that CC better while giving the opportunity for more damage. Disembowl has a flippin' 30 second cooldown and can be interrupted as easily as the Dagger Pair's E as it doesn't do anything but softly hold your target in place for a few seconds. This makes Claws one of the least useful weapons in the game that only allows it to serve one short role. If your opponent is bad you can do some damage with a Mage Cowl/Merc Jacket, but that's it. You cannot farm with this weapon.

      Bloodletter is awesome. It's E is super powerful, not only being a dash and an execute but when used properly reduces the cooldowns of all your abilities by 10 Seconds (which was the last buff daggers ever got and that was over a year ago). It's a straightforward weapon that does decent in PVP, is a mainstay with gatherers because of it's accessibility and double-dash potential, and you can actually farm with it unlike everything before hand.

      Blackhands on paper seem really cool, until you realize that Cleric Cowl is one of the most common head items in the game and you can use that the second you see the E come off. On top of that, simply accidentally moving will cancel the entire ability... and seeing how it's a long animation that's melee range it's really easy to mess up. Otherwise it's pretty good because it does a purge and true damage. You cannot farm with this weapon.

      Deathgivers are the only other weapon in the game that works extremely well as a dagger. Seriously, these things are wonderful. They're everything you'd expect from a dagger weapon. It works well with just about everything. You can't farm with this weapon.
    • Owlsane wrote:

      Guess they heard you guys check nda.

      Your thoughts on that?
      I dunno, the new Bloodthirsty Blade for 1H dagger completely misses the mark and does not address the real problems with the current skill, which are as follows:
      1. Skill can be purged
      2. Skill has a predictable, short window of time in which to do damage, so that any sort of defense or mobility becomes hard counter
      3. Skill is a toggle where the cool down begins when the toggle is finished as opposed to when the skill was activated (unlike say Enchanted Quiver)
      The new skill actually exacerbates 2.) because it most likely drops the move speed buff on the current Poison Coating (or at least it is not clear whether that stays with the new skill).

      In all honesty, Poison Coating is fine the way it is if it would just have 1 or 2 of the following:
      1. Unpurgeable
      2. Set number of uses a la Enchanted Quiver
      3. Cool down starts upon skill activation
    • Here is actually how I would rework Poison Coating:
      • A deep stab that infects an enemy with a forbidden poison dealing x damage and an additional x damage per second while the affected enemy is moving or reduces enemy damage by x% if they remain stationary. Poison lasts for 8 seconds.
      • Cooldown: 15-20 seconds
      • Cast time: instant
      • Range: melee
      • MP: ?
      This way your enemy literally has to pick their poison; they can give chase and do themselves additional damage or if they stay put, they nerf their damage. The skill, then, is a cross between Tear Apart from the axe tree and Sandstorm from the Bridgewatch cape.

      I played a lot of Witch Elf in Warhammer and they had a skill similar to this that would absolutely wreck people if they would give chase, and I just feel like this synergizes with the dagger tree philosophy while giving the 1H dagger some mobility play.

      Thoughts?
    • Surlo wrote:

      Calesvol wrote:

      I dunno, the new Bloodthirsty Blade for 1H dagger completely misses the mark and does not address the real problems with the current skill, which are as follows:
      1. Skill can be purged

      Toggle abilities can't be purged.
      Pretty sure that's not accurate. Poison Coating is a toggle that can be purged, so that's one example. Defenseless Rush on Royal Sandals is another example. The latter actually had the word toggle for the cast time too.
    • I don't see how the current tentative NDA rework to Poison Coating, 'Bloodthirsty Blades' (or the new q) changes anything to the current state of 1H Daggers.
      As it stands, the fundamental issue 1H Daggers face is that the Ability 'Poison Coating' is AA based and Daggers don't do that well at all.
      As their whole Kit is not synergising with AA but with Burst, as all their Spells are short-term/burst mobility focused spells - there is no prolonged MS/AS buff like with Swords, or Range buff or consistent Slow to make it possible to stay glued onto the Target.

      There is no glue like sticking power with Daggers at all to justify AA's in the long term, even with other Daggers (except for Deathgivers but they have what Daggers need and want, they ultimately are "THE DAGGER" concept ) - why would i use 1H Dagger when i can use Dagger Pair that (consisntelty and flexibly) does more damage and that and on the same CD.
      Without reducing my HP or losing damage because i can't hit the Target anymore because they are just barely out of my range and i need to make use of the remaining 8 sec's of my buff - while i get squishier and squishier and can get bursted down so fast due to my HP reduction/drain.

      Not to mention, Dagger's aren't really known for PvE content either - as Single Target doesn't matter at all in PvE, so even if it were/currently is a "Boss Killer" no one would care about that.

      Poison Coating would be hella strong or even broken on a Spear or Bow, as they make good use of their AA's since their Kit enhances AA's either by having innate range & AA based buffs (Bow's) or gaining range + AA dmg (Spears).
      Not to mention, that you gain reduced HP on a low range, burst-mobility, squishy melee weapon class (dagger) - that just doesn't mesh well at all, imho.

      The Ability has to change from AA based to Burst or have a W or Q that enhances/synergises with, AA based gameplay. Making Poison Coating a range attack (5-8m) for the duration, by throwing Daggers at the Enemy would go a long way and minimise the issues it has right now. And still have it stay unique from other Daggers.

      Imho the current NDA rework is just not addressing the issues at all, sure the toggle cancel is nice but whatever honestly, it doesn't add anything nor does it improve upon existing flaws - it's literally the same Ability with the same issues, just worded differently, nor does it add anything to the Dagger Kit as it's an against the grain of an Ability.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Ravname ().

    • Ravname wrote:

      Imho the current NDA rework is just not addressing the issues at all, sure the toggle cancel is nice but whatever honestly, it doesn't add anything nor does it improve upon existing flaws - it's literally the same Ability with the same issues, just worded differently, nor does it add anything to the Dagger Kit as it's an against the grain of an Ability.
      Just want to point out that the current Poison Coating skill is a toggle. When you hit E to activate, you can hit it again to cancel, so really nothing changes with the new skill other than you are swapping attack and movement speed for HP leach, which to your point, is not addressing the issue and only makes the current issue of sticking to the target that much more of a problem.
    • Calesvol wrote:

      Ravname wrote:

      Imho the current NDA rework is just not addressing the issues at all, sure the toggle cancel is nice but whatever honestly, it doesn't add anything nor does it improve upon existing flaws - it's literally the same Ability with the same issues, just worded differently, nor does it add anything to the Dagger Kit as it's an against the grain of an Ability.
      Just want to point out that the current Poison Coating skill is a toggle. When you hit E to activate, you can hit it again to cancel, so really nothing changes with the new skill other than you are swapping attack and movement speed for HP leach, which to your point, is not addressing the issue and only makes the current issue of sticking to the target that much more of a problem.
      Honnestly i'll wait this change to hit server before judging. Ima test it then comment about the change