Queen Update is likely to backfire at SBI, what will defeat the design

    • Queen Update is likely to backfire at SBI, what will defeat the design

      Heya,

      So we've been talking Queen update and seeing how everything is shaping up and how specifically the mega-alliances are reacting to it, and I must say the SBI designers have not quite thought well of the systems that they are adding to as stated before, wanting to have smaller guilds and alliances a play on the end-game territory play & settle on the outlands that has been very monopolized for a long time by mere numbers, and a balance of ZvZ trying to move away from the messy fights of hundreds on the same zone.

      But as test server opened and queen approaches the entire design is already being defeated, here's what is happening:

      • Queue System? There is a very large growth on coalitions between major alliances for Queen already, the general agreement that will completely break the Queue and Zerg Debuff system is going to be multiple zergs on coalition from multiple alliances on the same zone to guarantee a win, you know what happens to the enemy zerg if they try to match? They won't be able to get in as the system wanted for balance will balance them instead. There are already guilds/allies offering this "service".

      • ZvZ Territories? So monopolization here is something that is absolutely going to happen, here's the deal, on queen there are many prime times for territories what currently say on a reset day/warcamps requires a top zerg to focus their strategy where to it because they only have the EU & NA chance daily is now turning into them being able to fight attacks throughout the entire day as terris enter prime time, they are also not spread enough to discourage that. This means that the mid and low tier BZ maps are still able to be monopolized as X alliance decides they want that entire zone simply because they can have their main zerg fight for many territory claims per day.

      • Hideouts? Another mechanic at risk of monopolization here. The problem here ties to the previous point, hideouts can only be placed on prime time and have to be defended for a while, from the test server once the season starts is when the hideout rush will begin, and once it does we are in for quite the challenge as the many prime-times allow main zergs to contest many zones per day, and see there is an interest of a top ZvZ guild/ally to get all hideouts they can, 6 per guild + academy/alt guilds imagine what already happened with BZ Towns for long now with hideouts, for those who don't know most of them are bought & sold there wasn't much legit fighting over getting a town you bought them instead, and I think there is motivation to cap a map of YOUR controlled hideouts and sell the spots to others interested instead on similar deals to towns. If this happens hideouts will not be the inclusive mechanic to allow smaller alliances and non-hardcore guilds to settle on the outlands, mind a outlands map seem to cap around ~6 hideouts based on the distance you must keep between them.


      In any way that's my thoughts on queen as far the devs attempt to break monopolization/mega-allies go, I don't think it will work out if they manage to work around the new systems in the ways mentioned, and as far I looked they are entirely possible, and as we know if it's possible there is no reason it won't happen even if it is dirty play like top guilds zone-capping maps just because they could.

      What are your thoughts on this? Do you think the Queen update will succeed at mitigating the monopolization by few while the mega-alliances remain?
    • Lets just let Queen hit lives first then call it a fail or not after we really know. Its easy to look at something and think it will be bad, Its another thing to wait and see what will really happen, also you are forgetting that more then 1 guild can launch on a terri which means if a guild/alliance goes out and takes say 50 terris the first day. The next day 100 guilds could launch on all 50 terris and well I don't think you will be defending them all even if some are @ different times, If they have 3 or 4 @ the same time they will need to split there force to defend all 3 or 4 terris in that timezone and with 5 or more guilds attacking each zone well your just not going to get an easy win. We have never had a system like this yet and its nothing like reset days lets just wait and find out how it all works together. Just look @ the resets on live that are 2 days apart all kinds of guild are grabbing terris because they dont need to worry about losing them to a dank 5man gvg team. Its already working before it hits live with just the "reset" system.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Neef ().

    • Hollywoodi wrote:

      Thats okay Jim

      If that happens they probably will finally do what most want and remove alliance in general..

      So all good just another 3-6 months till it finally happens
      See what is already happening for queen is coalitions, it's different alliances that will simply work together if they have to, either by payoffs or simple mutual benefit.

      So if I want to guarantee I'll win the terris I want on Queen I'll simply put up some money to get different ally zergs to mobilize and ensure the queue system plays in my favor, and I don't think the devs will be able to come up with "Oh but if you do it you'll get banned!" like with zone-capping.

      Even if they remove the alliance system you can still break game mechanics in your favour.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TheBacon ().

    • TheBacon wrote:

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Thats okay Jim

      If that happens they probably will finally do what most want and remove alliance in general..

      So all good just another 3-6 months till it finally happens
      It can even happen and result on a removal, however it wouldn't fix much. See what is already happening for queen is coalitions, it's different alliances that will simply work together if they have to, either by payoffs or simple mutual benefit.
      So if I want to guarantee I'll win the terris I want on Queen I'll simply put up some money to get different ally zergs to mobilize and ensure the queue system plays in my favor, and I don't think the devs will be able to come up with "Oh but if you do it you'll get banned!" like with zone-capping.
      You cant zone cap though, It checks all guilds and alliances and balances to that, Also it seems to be working fine on live with the terri resets every 2 days tons of small guilds have gotten terris now that gvgs are done
    • Neef wrote:

      TheBacon wrote:

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Thats okay Jim

      If that happens they probably will finally do what most want and remove alliance in general..

      So all good just another 3-6 months till it finally happens
      It can even happen and result on a removal, however it wouldn't fix much. See what is already happening for queen is coalitions, it's different alliances that will simply work together if they have to, either by payoffs or simple mutual benefit.So if I want to guarantee I'll win the terris I want on Queen I'll simply put up some money to get different ally zergs to mobilize and ensure the queue system plays in my favor, and I don't think the devs will be able to come up with "Oh but if you do it you'll get banned!" like with zone-capping.
      You cant zone cap though, It checks all guilds and alliances and balances to that, Also it seems to be working fine on live with the terri resets every 2 days tons of small guilds have gotten terris now that gvgs are done
      Almost nobody is caring about terris until queen, it's a waste of money to be claiming now really unless it's a good zone for the sake of cleaning map from resources.
    • Exactly above. More variety of guilds are gaining territory atm simply because most large guilds/alliances no longer care. They have secured their season point goals and have little reason to hold territory until Queen. It will be interesting to watch Queen but any content that is advantageous to just N+1 zerg will most likely end up that way. Time will tell.
    • TheBacon wrote:

      Neef wrote:

      TheBacon wrote:

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Thats okay Jim

      If that happens they probably will finally do what most want and remove alliance in general..

      So all good just another 3-6 months till it finally happens
      It can even happen and result on a removal, however it wouldn't fix much. See what is already happening for queen is coalitions, it's different alliances that will simply work together if they have to, either by payoffs or simple mutual benefit.So if I want to guarantee I'll win the terris I want on Queen I'll simply put up some money to get different ally zergs to mobilize and ensure the queue system plays in my favor, and I don't think the devs will be able to come up with "Oh but if you do it you'll get banned!" like with zone-capping.
      You cant zone cap though, It checks all guilds and alliances and balances to that, Also it seems to be working fine on live with the terri resets every 2 days tons of small guilds have gotten terris now that gvgs are done
      Almost nobody is caring about terris until queen, it's a waste of money to be claiming now really unless it's a good zone for the sake of cleaning map from resources.
      Not only is nobody caring about the terris until queen...the "small guilds" that are taking terries don't get to keep them because of the resets...and the new system to take terries from others has not been tested in production nor will it be until queen hits. These reset days are just a CF of zvz fun for guilds to take advantage of.

      Using these 2 day reset days as a "test" of the zvz functionality that is coming in queen is in my opinion a trash excuse.
    • I share your concerns here and I am worried, but we need to wait what happens when queen launches and the "war" begins.
      Big Alliances have always tried to work together or make deals/pacts and it worked out to some extend for some time but there will always be backstabbing and other people trying to break these deals, it is just the natural flow of the game.
      Im scared and excited to see what will happen but I think the chance of an absolute and total monopolization are very low, but still not zero.
    • Neef wrote:

      Lets just let Queen hit lives first then call it a fail or not after we really know. Its easy to look at something and think it will be bad, Its another thing to wait and see what will really happen, also you are forgetting that more then 1 guild can launch on a terri which means if a guild/alliance goes out and takes say 50 terris the first day. The next day 100 guilds could launch on all 50 terris and well I don't think you will be defending them all even if some are @ different times, If they have 3 or 4 @ the same time they will need to split there force to defend all 3 or 4 terris in that timezone and with 5 or more guilds attacking each zone well your just not going to get an easy win. We have never had a system like this yet and its nothing like reset days lets just wait and find out how it all works together. Just look @ the resets on live that are 2 days apart all kinds of guild are grabbing terris because they dont need to worry about losing them to a dank 5man gvg team. Its already working before it hits live with just the "reset" system.
      A main ally can already form multiple main zergs, aka BA on a single prime-time, so when you even that to the many prime times on queen, they deff can bring their main zergs to fight attacks upon them as even if they get launched on all their terris, they are spread on many timezones meaning they are not needing to split resources heavily as they would do pre-queen with WC's/reset day. On main allies they can already do multiple main zergs simultaneously, considering how many prime times queen has, they can deff defend dozens of terris per day with main zergs as they hit prime throughout the day. If they get seriously threatened then using mechanics like on my first point against enemy zergs to defend key objectives will apply, the outlands always was an area where big money and politics hold hands.


      Eternalhaze wrote:

      Since the leaks about this update, I've been extremely skeptical about Queen. It has just as much potential to do more harm than good for the betterment of the game.

      We will soon find out the extent of the changes and it's impact on the game, but if it turns out to be overall worse for the game - how does Albion recover after that?
      It's an annoying thing, there are many people who got tired and just left the game because once they want to progress their own groups to the end-game they are hit by walls where they either merge into the mega-ally setup or they won't be able to achieve anything decent, Queen update was meant to be the answer of the developers to give more gameplay to more people so the endgame territory play is more open.

      What I think will happen is another wave of complaints will hit SBI if the update gets undermined by the flaws of the designed systems, now how will the developers response I'm not sure, but I think Albion will continue going on as it had with the usual issue where the few big players soak the majority of the end-game.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TheBacon ().

    • most information in this thread is inaccurate...

      please read the latest official info from DEVs: Hideouts: A Detailed Guide


      Eltharyon wrote:

      All gear, buildings, furniture inside the Hideout is destroyed EXCEPT gear stored in personal bank tabs (guild vault contents are still destroyed).

      Gear in personal bank tabs will instead be moved to the nearest permanent public bank (so either one of the new Outland “Rests” or the nearest major city). You’ll be informed via mail where your items have been moved.

      You’ll find these items in a new tab (which does not count against your existing bank tabs), which can only be used to withdraw recovered items. These items will remain locked for 28 days until they can be claimed. Claiming them costs a fee of silver based on the weight of the item and their fast travel cost modifier, should they have one.
      yeah.... good luck "moving" stuff around using this so called exploit - its gonna be very costly and most of the stuff gets destroyed anyway.... and 28 days... ZZZZZzzzzz

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Captainrussia ().

    • Captainrussia wrote:

      most information in this thread is inaccurate...

      please read the latest official info from DEVs: Hideouts: A Detailed Guide


      Eltharyon wrote:

      All gear, buildings, furniture inside the Hideout is destroyed EXCEPT gear stored in personal bank tabs (guild vault contents are still destroyed).

      Gear in personal bank tabs will instead be moved to the nearest permanent public bank (so either one of the new Outland “Rests” or the nearest major city). You’ll be informed via mail where your items have been moved.

      You’ll find these items in a new tab (which does not count against your existing bank tabs), which can only be used to withdraw recovered items. These items will remain locked for 28 days until they can be claimed. Claiming them costs a fee of silver based on the weight of the item and their fast travel cost modifier, should they have one.
      yeah.... good luck "moving" stuff around using this so called exploit - its gonna be very costly and most of the stuff gets destroyed anyway.... and 28 days... ZZZZZzzzzz

      On the long-lasting business the outlands Towns where, the guilds that were selling them did not build the towns at all they just had them in their ownership to sell/rent to other guilds.

      Hideouts are actually easier than towns, you can actually own the hideout yourself, and then rent/sell it to someone by simply using the permission system and given someone beyond your alliance the co-owner / access right with no real need to destroy and let someone else place their own hideout, from what we tested on the test server this is indeed possible.
    • TheBacon wrote:

      Captainrussia wrote:

      most information in this thread is inaccurate...

      please read the latest official info from DEVs: Hideouts: A Detailed Guide


      Eltharyon wrote:

      All gear, buildings, furniture inside the Hideout is destroyed EXCEPT gear stored in personal bank tabs (guild vault contents are still destroyed).

      Gear in personal bank tabs will instead be moved to the nearest permanent public bank (so either one of the new Outland “Rests” or the nearest major city). You’ll be informed via mail where your items have been moved.

      You’ll find these items in a new tab (which does not count against your existing bank tabs), which can only be used to withdraw recovered items. These items will remain locked for 28 days until they can be claimed. Claiming them costs a fee of silver based on the weight of the item and their fast travel cost modifier, should they have one.
      yeah.... good luck "moving" stuff around using this so called exploit - its gonna be very costly and most of the stuff gets destroyed anyway.... and 28 days... ZZZZZzzzzz
      On the long-lasting business the outlands Towns where, the guilds that were selling them did not build the towns at all they just had them in their ownership to sell/rent to other guilds.

      Hideouts are actually easier than towns, you can actually own the hideout yourself, and then rent/sell it to someone by simply using the permission system and given someone beyond your alliance the co-owner / access right with no real need to destroy and let someone else place their own hideout, from what we tested on the test server this is indeed possible.
      This would never happen my friend... Would you trust the person your renting the hideout from with all that gear and stuff in the hideout because given that they own it and you just have permission to use the hideout means they will have access to all items stored inless only personal bank tabs are used. Which to rent a hideout for just personal tabs that they can get from any public hideout yeah I dont think so.
    • Neef wrote:

      TheBacon wrote:

      Captainrussia wrote:

      most information in this thread is inaccurate...

      please read the latest official info from DEVs: Hideouts: A Detailed Guide


      Eltharyon wrote:

      All gear, buildings, furniture inside the Hideout is destroyed EXCEPT gear stored in personal bank tabs (guild vault contents are still destroyed).

      Gear in personal bank tabs will instead be moved to the nearest permanent public bank (so either one of the new Outland “Rests” or the nearest major city). You’ll be informed via mail where your items have been moved.

      You’ll find these items in a new tab (which does not count against your existing bank tabs), which can only be used to withdraw recovered items. These items will remain locked for 28 days until they can be claimed. Claiming them costs a fee of silver based on the weight of the item and their fast travel cost modifier, should they have one.
      yeah.... good luck "moving" stuff around using this so called exploit - its gonna be very costly and most of the stuff gets destroyed anyway.... and 28 days... ZZZZZzzzzz
      On the long-lasting business the outlands Towns where, the guilds that were selling them did not build the towns at all they just had them in their ownership to sell/rent to other guilds.
      Hideouts are actually easier than towns, you can actually own the hideout yourself, and then rent/sell it to someone by simply using the permission system and given someone beyond your alliance the co-owner / access right with no real need to destroy and let someone else place their own hideout, from what we tested on the test server this is indeed possible.
      This would never happen my friend... Would you trust the person your renting the hideout from with all that gear and stuff in the hideout because given that they own it and you just have permission to use the hideout means they will have access to all items stored inless only personal bank tabs are used. Which to rent a hideout for just personal tabs that they can get from any public hideout yeah I dont think so.
      Even if that was the issue the hideout can be dropped and placed by the relevant guild that paid up for the spot. You do not need to build up any insides or use its storages if you are simply taking the spot for yourself on an area you control, that has been the case with BZ Towns.

      And even if it plays as the devs want and many guilds get their own hideouts, the big boys (the problem I mentioned on the 2nd point with ZvZ Terris prime times) monopolization should provide enough harassment to established a minimum rent expected from the hideout owners or they'll get rid of them, from the mechanic details posted today it's not hard to take them down if they are not part of a mega-ally to stand defense. The devs said there is no motivation to take over it, but there is, money, if someone is not paying up what you want you can get rid of them and get someone else to settle.

      Either way that goes, I still see motivation to monopolize to cash in big from full control over who settles on the overall area your operation is centralizing from (and reducing PvP risks by not having someone who poses you a threat settling on your backyard)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TheBacon ().

    • TheBacon wrote:

      Neef wrote:

      TheBacon wrote:

      Captainrussia wrote:

      most information in this thread is inaccurate...

      please read the latest official info from DEVs: Hideouts: A Detailed Guide


      Eltharyon wrote:

      All gear, buildings, furniture inside the Hideout is destroyed EXCEPT gear stored in personal bank tabs (guild vault contents are still destroyed).

      Gear in personal bank tabs will instead be moved to the nearest permanent public bank (so either one of the new Outland “Rests” or the nearest major city). You’ll be informed via mail where your items have been moved.

      You’ll find these items in a new tab (which does not count against your existing bank tabs), which can only be used to withdraw recovered items. These items will remain locked for 28 days until they can be claimed. Claiming them costs a fee of silver based on the weight of the item and their fast travel cost modifier, should they have one.
      yeah.... good luck "moving" stuff around using this so called exploit - its gonna be very costly and most of the stuff gets destroyed anyway.... and 28 days... ZZZZZzzzzz
      On the long-lasting business the outlands Towns where, the guilds that were selling them did not build the towns at all they just had them in their ownership to sell/rent to other guilds.Hideouts are actually easier than towns, you can actually own the hideout yourself, and then rent/sell it to someone by simply using the permission system and given someone beyond your alliance the co-owner / access right with no real need to destroy and let someone else place their own hideout, from what we tested on the test server this is indeed possible.
      This would never happen my friend... Would you trust the person your renting the hideout from with all that gear and stuff in the hideout because given that they own it and you just have permission to use the hideout means they will have access to all items stored inless only personal bank tabs are used. Which to rent a hideout for just personal tabs that they can get from any public hideout yeah I dont think so.
      Even if that was the issue the hideout can be dropped and placed by the relevant guild that paid up for the spot. You do not need to build up any insides or use its storages if you are simply taking the spot for yourself on an area you control, that has been the case with BZ Towns.
      And even if it plays as the devs want and many guilds get their own hideouts, the big boys (the problem I mentioned on the 2nd point with ZvZ Terris prime times) monopolization should provide enough harassment to established a minimum rent expected from the hideout owners or they'll get rid of them, from the mechanic details posted today it's not hard to take them down if they are not part of a mega-ally to stand defense. The devs said there is no motivation to take over it, but there is, money, if someone is not paying up what you want you can get rid of them and get someone else to settle.

      Either way that goes, I still see motivation to monopolize to cash in big from full control over who settles on the overall area your operation is centralizing from (and reducing PvP risks by not having someone who poses you a threat settling on your backyard)
      With how much work it will take to bring down a hideout of a decent level I don't think its going to be a big problem for small guilds, If small guilds dnt put a hideout in the center of the outlands I'm sure huge alliances/guilds wont bother them because the reward for taking down a hideout is slim to none, Which will make taking hideout down only if the cluster is hideout capped or a good spot is taken and that guild wants it. The zones closer to the portals and edge of the outlands I think will have no problem keeper thier hideouts for this reason alone, Its just not worth the effort to taken it down, Now if the attackers got something other then a PVP fight (Maybe if it is defended) then it would be another story. but its not.
    • TheBacon wrote:

      ZvZ Territories? So monopolization here is something that is absolutely going to happen, here's the deal, on queen there are many prime times for territories what currently say on a reset day/warcamps requires a top zerg to focus their strategy where to it because they only have the EU & NA chance daily is now turning into them being able to fight attacks throughout the entire day as terris enter prime time, they are also not spread enough to discourage that. This means that the mid and low tier BZ maps are still able to be monopolized as X alliance decides they want that entire zone simply because they can have their main zerg fight for many territory claims per day.

      I'm hoping that the powerful alliances will compete for the high-point terris near the center of the Outlands, leaving the rim free for smaller guilds.