Whispering bow vs Bow

    • Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      I’d like to keep whispering bow as it is, your so wrong about it in a mobility fight, do you know how much bloody range whispering has and how much damage it stacks? Q and frost shot back, then proceed to chew through, add a poison and you melt. Melted a 6k boss in 45 seconds with no specs.
      Also bow is easy countered by 90% of the cc classes or purge
      Also your thread is still constantly wrong about bow v whispering, have you even ever used it properly? Whispering is the LMG, pair it with poison and you deal insane long range dps while chasing. Why do people make threads like these without thinking of testing it, actually testing it nor watching YouTube or using the test server, using it in a real situation.
      loool man hahahaha. You have no idea what you are saying.

      Do you are interested to prove it? Duel me. Ill use some builds to prove that you have no idea what you are saying. Every weapon can win easily against whispering bow.

    • ViniColen wrote:

      Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      I’d like to keep whispering bow as it is, your so wrong about it in a mobility fight, do you know how much bloody range whispering has and how much damage it stacks? Q and frost shot back, then proceed to chew through, add a poison and you melt. Melted a 6k boss in 45 seconds with no specs.
      Also bow is easy countered by 90% of the cc classes or purge
      Also your thread is still constantly wrong about bow v whispering, have you even ever used it properly? Whispering is the LMG, pair it with poison and you deal insane long range dps while chasing. Why do people make threads like these without thinking of testing it, actually testing it nor watching YouTube or using the test server, using it in a real situation.
      loool man hahahaha. You have no idea what you are saying.
      Do you are interested to prove it? Duel me. Ill use some builds to prove that you have no idea what you are saying. Every weapon can win easily against whispering bow.
      I apparently don’t know what I’m talking about but let me just shit on a moron.
      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/66751566
      if I really need to fish up half of my kills with it I will, please sit down 1m fame
      And FYI my partner was a rat here who poked and ran away to tank. Soooo not sure how it lacks dps, considering I melted his self substain and out damaged him with attack speed hits, no specs btw
      Not every weapon is op, it’s a single target poke burst, we don’t need any changes to it rofl.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Sgtbloodelf ().

    • Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      I apparently don’t know what I’m talking about but let me just shit on a moron.albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/66751566
      if I really need to fish up half of my kills with it I will, please sit down 1m fame
      And FYI my partner was a rat here who poked and ran away to tank. Soooo not sure how it lacks dps, considering I melted his self substain and out damaged him with attack speed hits, no specs btw
      Not every weapon is op, it’s a single target poke burst, we don’t need any changes to it rofl.
      I've checked the killborard of your last two months and this is the only kill on whispering bow. So either your friend killed everyone of your self-proclaimed "90% of the damage are done by me"...quite curious the guy is REALLY GOOD at kill stealing yo shit or you are blatently lying about your 9/10 winrates in hg as a whispering bow or in reallity you did not 90% of the damage but maybe 20-30% so you are pretty useless and the guy can replace you with anything else that deals more damage like a OS build, crossbow, etc...

      But at least you had one kill with the wispering bow so you didn't lied about actually playing it i guess.

      @ViniColen i'll come back to your statement later i have RL stuff to do on prio.

    • Owlsane wrote:

      Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      I apparently don’t know what I’m talking about but let me just shit on a moron.albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/66751566
      if I really need to fish up half of my kills with it I will, please sit down 1m fame
      And FYI my partner was a rat here who poked and ran away to tank. Soooo not sure how it lacks dps, considering I melted his self substain and out damaged him with attack speed hits, no specs btw
      Not every weapon is op, it’s a single target poke burst, we don’t need any changes to it rofl.
      I've checked the killborard of your last two months and this is the only kill on whispering bow. So either your friend killed everyone of your self-proclaimed "90% of the damage are done by me"...quite curious the guy is REALLY GOOD at kill stealing yo shit or you are blatently lying about your 9/10 winrates in hg as a whispering bow or in reallity you did not 90% of the damage but maybe 20-30% so you are pretty useless and the guy can replace you with anything else that deals more damage like a OS build, crossbow, etc...
      But at least you had one kill with the wispering bow so you didn't lied about actually playing it i guess.

      @ViniColen i'll come back to your statement later i have RL stuff to do on prio.
      You know what isn’t logged in kills, assist...HUH huh WHERE ARE THOSE. Lol your one of the sped talkers to Owl. Zzzz people complaining about underpowered weapons that aren’t, have you even ever used it properly? You shit talk a lot

    • Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      Owlsane wrote:

      Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      I apparently don’t know what I’m talking about but let me just shit on a moron.albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/66751566
      if I really need to fish up half of my kills with it I will, please sit down 1m fame
      And FYI my partner was a rat here who poked and ran away to tank. Soooo not sure how it lacks dps, considering I melted his self substain and out damaged him with attack speed hits, no specs btw
      Not every weapon is op, it’s a single target poke burst, we don’t need any changes to it rofl.
      I've checked the killborard of your last two months and this is the only kill on whispering bow. So either your friend killed everyone of your self-proclaimed "90% of the damage are done by me"...quite curious the guy is REALLY GOOD at kill stealing yo shit or you are blatently lying about your 9/10 winrates in hg as a whispering bow or in reallity you did not 90% of the damage but maybe 20-30% so you are pretty useless and the guy can replace you with anything else that deals more damage like a OS build, crossbow, etc...But at least you had one kill with the wispering bow so you didn't lied about actually playing it i guess.

      @ViniColen i'll come back to your statement later i have RL stuff to do on prio.
      You know what isn’t logged in kills, assist...HUH huh WHERE ARE THOSE. Lol your one of the sped talkers to Owl. Zzzz people complaining about underpowered weapons that aren’t, have you even ever used it properly? You shit talk a lot
      Then give me the name of your friend i'll check his kills and corellate with your assist.

      You're talking to a guy that played whispering bow and still play whispering bow since 2017, solo, small scale, arena, dive, ZvZ i did everything with it, i do well what's their strenghts and weaknesses.

      I don't know why you go in your high horses... You just happened to disappoint me when i was genuenly interested of your success.

      So know i'm waiting for your friend's name and i'll investigate it.


      EDIT : You don't need to tell me your friend's name. You almost have done all of your actual PVP fame in the last 2 months (2 mil of the 2.7 mil pvp fame) so it's way to unlikely that you did thoses 700k pvp fame only with wispering 3 months ago doing HG and having a 90% Wr and 90% damage dealt. But at least it makes your only kill doing 90% of the damage more believable i guess.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Owlsane ().

    • ViniColen wrote:

      Owlsane wrote:

      So by comparison without AS buffs my solutions has better mobility than yours but yours begins to be better the more AS you get. Now here is the thing, your situation applies only specifically when you have undead arrow activated while my proposition is to make bows more consistent overall. What i mean by that is, when your buff is down you goes back with 0.4 stantime on auto, which means if someday you get a auto-based Q you will even be slower when spell is on CD (you have the same movement on average than my solution with 2.5 AS)
      Only two bows are auto attack weapons: Whispering bow and Normal bow. With your proposal, you will help more the normal bow than the whispering bow. It is that what we want?You are forgeting something. With normal bow you can run and shot without losing your "E". Whispering bow cant do it. If you need to move, with whispering bow E active, you will lose damage. With normal bow, you wont. This is the point.
      So first, i never stated i wanted to save only whispering bow, if i'm not mistaken i was clear enough that all my propositions was to make auto-attack builds be really enjoyable and comfortable to play so i don't really care if it helps more normal bow or not... (also i've mentionned a special treatment for normal bow to completely stop this machine turret gameplay)

      Second, lemme correct something of your statement.

      Normal bow has stacks of enchanted quiver, which can use whenever you want for 30s, in that case you're right, normal bow can move without "losing" this buff but you're completely missing something, is that if you don't hit you don't do damage whatever you're stationary, running, saving your stacks etc... everyone can bail out, heal themselves that means negating your damage yati yata yata... also i will bring the buff timer that forces you to still hit somebody after 4-5s otherwise you lose all your damage, attack speed, pierce debuff. Normal bow has obviously something to restrain them to freely dps whenever they want. Thoses two bows works completely different in their core mechanic but their core mechanic are ok the way their are and somehow balanced in between them. What makes one better than the other has to do with what they provide in damage, steroids, utility, etc...

      And now third, i'll apply your reasoning about the "If you need to move with whispering bow E active you will lose dmg, with normal bow you won't". Right before i've just proved you wrong that normal bow lose damage if you move too. Now about your whispering bow proposition it willl solve nothing too because "if you move with whispering bow E active you will lose dmg" (if you need to basically run to avoid getting damage but landing auto-attaks makes you get the slow debuff so you rather not use autos and run thus you lose damage).

      I know, i know... it's not what you meant by full running. You were meaning that hitting in constant movement with a slow debuff is better than standtime. I proved that in your current iteration is not good overall with numbers (and even if you reduce that slow to 10% it will still be worse overall) but i guess numbers doesn't explain well so i made charts.

      So thoses 2 charts represent all the ground you have done during the 8 second of your whispering bow while making hit and run. Orange = my solution with 0.2 standtime / Red = your solution with 30% slow but no standtime / White = the actual shit standtime of 0.4

      First chart no attack speed debuff => 1.3 AS



      Second chart at 2.0 AS (around using haste on hunter jacket or morgana cape)


      Is it worth it to win 4 more meters @2.0AS but having no boots usable as a trade off?
      Idk man you do you, but in the end the standtime solution don't make you lose dps as you pretty much move almost as much as your solution. If it still not what you mean't by that then explain yourself clearer.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Owlsane ().

    • Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      I’d like to keep whispering bow as it is, your so wrong about it in a mobility fight, do you know how much bloody range whispering has and how much damage it stacks? Q and frost shot back, then proceed to chew through, add a poison and you melt. Melted a 6k boss in 45 seconds with no specs.
      Also bow is easy countered by 90% of the cc classes or purge
      Also your thread is still constantly wrong about bow v whispering, have you even ever used it properly? Whispering is the LMG, pair it with poison and you deal insane long range dps while chasing. Why do people make threads like these without thinking of testing it, actually testing it nor watching YouTube or using the test server, using it in a real situation.
      Sensing some hostility and toxicity over here lmao so let's go!

      1.) Highly doubt you've faced "decent" teams in your 9/10 Hellgate wins then, most smart comps can easily purge you to oblivion with the enemy taking your loot like taking candy from a purged helpless whispering bow user.

      2.) 6k Boss in 45 seconds with no specs - This is inefficient for PvE as groups would rather have a Badon/Longbow instead for overall group content, longbow / normal bow also better for Solo dungeons than whispering which further proves the point of this thread.

      3.) How long do you think it takes for an enemy player (that's not a braindead dummy) with mobility skills to simply run up to you as you stationarily auto attack him with your weak damage E on whispering? Lemme guess, you'll die before you can burst them down because they also have defensives that can easily waste your 8 seconds lmao

      *At this point, we are starting to doubt your credibility as a whispering bow user given your logic in PvP. You don't consider the possible scenarios where you have enemies running strong mobility and sustain builds that would easily crush your setup at any given point in time. Hellgates are NOT the only PvP scenario we are looking at to "prove" that a weapon is viable or not lmao.

      If you think players are gonna stand there and let you burst them with your "LMG" + poison and 8-second turret setup, you've already contradicted yourself in terms of PvP experience. A lot of open world builds can easily crush Whispering with minimal effort, it's WARBOW that is king for mobility (that and a really good player behind it)

      No matter how "good" you think you are, you WILL get D E S T R O Y E D by certain builds and players, albeit having much inferior skill level than you, run a build that's much more mechanically effective in PvP than your setup.


      Please do not claim to deal "insane long range damage" in 8 seconds while chasing because "attack move" makes you lose damage with Whispering Bow f.y.i

    • @Owlsane
      @ViniColen

      Going back to the topic at hand...

      Other than the % bonus true damage based on max health

      Another would be reducing the cooldowns to increase the uptime on the Undead arrows for Whispering bow

      [Although this mainly just benefits the whispering bow rather than auto attack builds in general]

      -Perhaps reducing the downtime on the buffs that empower auto attack builds can solve mobility issues?

      Alternative solution: "Reduce Undead Arrows Cooldown from 20 seconds to 15 seconds

      15 seconds seems more reasonable since after the 8 second buff duration there would be 7 seconds of downtime (cooldown starts as soon as you use E)
      *If player uses cooldown reduction item such as Pork omelette that's 13% of cooldown reduction

      15 x .13 = 1.95
      15 - 1.95 = 13.05
      13.05 - 8 = 5 seconds of downtime / cooldown after the buff expires

      *Note: the less cooldown/downtime = more consistent damage output

      Build still punished by Purge builds that purge you as soon as you use your E giving you a longer downtime

    • IMO Standtime attribute is always against some outplay potential in PvP (casting time is enough) so remove him everywhere pls.
      I want game about skill, outplays (we need skillshots, movement in combat so you can dodge something, etc.), teamplay, composition and not only about mathematics (only bigger player count wins) and statistics only (only bigger IP wins)...
      HankTheNoob | Battles in AO

      The post was edited 3 times, last by H4nk ().

    • Jagere wrote:

      I really think they should make the Whispering E a toggle. Shorter cool down , with less damage(if they want).

      Since you can "pre-charge" early like the regular bow users do to have 2nd E again if u get purged.

      With Whispering, you got use it right then and now.
      Toggle spell is the ultimate solution on what @ViniColen was trying to eliminate on whispering bow.

      In a sense i can see this being a thing only if you add a mana cost that scale with a stackable debuff like "spirit spear". Purge would be completely removed as a viable counter etc, etc...

      PS : that was one of the main solution i brough to the table 2 years ago but not for the mobility reason.

    • Jagere wrote:

      I really think they should make the Whispering E a toggle. Shorter cool down , with less damage(if they want).

      Since you can "pre-charge" early like the regular bow users do to have 2nd E again if u get purged.

      With Whispering, you got use it right then and now.
      That'd be great - minus the "less damage (if they want)" because it's already dealing subpar damage and that you'd have to use hunter jacket just to have it do decent damage.

    • I'll list all my suggestions in one post for better visibility and also add some new/changed suggestion :

      - Rework standtime to actually scale depending of your actual Attack speed (i've abandoned the suggestion to simply halve the standime) [CHANGE FOR ALL WEAPONS]
      /!\ This change is mandatory. Not reducing standtime won't change anything for auto-builds even if you buff them /!\

      Begin to a flat 0.30 standtime in 1.0 AS and the formula for the scaling is : Base Standtime / Attack speed = Actual standtime

      Here some visual values to see the scaling :
      Attack speed0.670.800.901.001.101.201.301.401.501.802.002.503.00
      Actual standtime0.450.380.330.300.270.250.230.210.200.170.150.120.10

      People might think that you will ground the same distance per sec and yes on paper it's the case but in reallity human reaction. ping, etc will tone a little bit the ground made the more attack speed you get.

      - Rework Multishot (version if no swap slots with explosive shot) [CHANGE FOR ALL BOWS]
      Make it auto-attack based. 5s buff that makes each auto-attack "launch direclty an additional arrow" that deal 23.00 base physical damage, put 5s cd and it will be a nice spell that scale with you attack speed. Normal bow's E won't make this spell have better damage.

      - Tweak some numbers on Explosive shot + swap slots with Multishot (version with swap slots with multishot) [CHANGE FOR ALL BOWS]
      It becomes a Q slot, 5 shot instead of 10, 5s CD, 21.45 -> 30.00 base magic damage, procs on auto-attakcs and spells.

      Accordingally, make multishot 5s cd, 66.30 -> 90.00 base physical damage, 12m -> 15m range.

      With that you have a good synergy with multishot and explosive shot.

      - Put speed shot self cast [CHANGE FOR ALL BOWS]
      As title says no hitting an ennemy to get the buff, exactly like iron will, adrelanine rush, yati yata yata.

      - Undead arrow change (version one - assassin/execute route) [CHANGE FOR WHISPERING]
      50.00 -> 60.00 base magic damage and scaling with missing health up to 120.00 base magic damage @100% missing health.

      Visual example of the scaling
      Missing health0%10%20%30%40%50%60%70%80%90%100%
      Base damage60.0066.0072.0078.0084.0090.0096.00102.00108.00114.00120.00


      - Undead arrow change (version two - anti-tank route) [CHANGE FOR WHISPERING]
      This version is from @Zyrex
      Change undead arrow damage. 50.00 base magic damage -> 3.5% max health true damage on unmounted players. (50.00 base magic damage on mobs and mounts)

      - Enchanted quiver change (a definitive stop to this attack speed steroid nonsense) [CHANGE FOR NORMAL BOW]
      Remove attack speed steroid, 18 shots -> 15 shots, normal attack buff per stack 35% -> 60%, max stack 6 -> 5 (so the max normal attack buff goes from 210% to 300%). Pierce stays the same.

      Will make attack speed buffs a new possibility that is completely pointless in the actual E version...

    • Idk if this is necroing a post but here is my suggestion, how about working out the mechanism of Whispering Bow to function as the Impetus Skill of Enchantrees in DOTA? Basically auto attacks that hits exponentially harder as a target goes far from you. This would be very OP but maybe add a restriction to movement while the skill is in effect, maybe make the caster unable to move until he stops the skill.

    • One another possible option is to make a 8s buff toggle with a 10s cd. In addition to that it consumes mana per sec when toggled

      Scenarios :
      -You proc E then immediatly you get purged => 10s cd
      -You proc E and use the 8s buff time => 10s cd
      -You proc E but after 3s of the buff because you can't hit somebody you untoggle E => 10s

      With that you don't get that much rekt by purges and you add an interesting depth tp this E

    • All of you are not on the same page so lets get some facts straight on why bow are better then whispering by a long shot
      from a pvp and pve standpoint
      and whispering needs to be reworked badly

      All agree that undead's range is not always better because of the many gap closers and is considered a quality of life at most?
      -Also crossbow's auto fire/deathward climax has the max same range as undead arrows

      All agree that purge/reflect/invis will completely shut down a bow/whispering but not a warbow user?

      All agree that both bow and whispering has a 20 cd E?

      All agree that bow enchanted quiver buff lasts for 30 secs once pressed? while undead arrow is a 8 sec buff?
      now here come the fun part.

      All agree that with curing shield damage for hide animals on skinner gear R is 30 seconds? and lasts 40 seconds? making bow The best uncontested Skinner weapons in the game? with a 100% uptime on both skills e and r when you farm hide?

      All agree that you do not use your whole enchanted quiver when killing mobs and sometimes players too?

      All agree that regular bow is one of the only weapons in the game which can dismount while chasing with an active damage buff? (enchanted quiver last so long)
      you can practically chase on mount then once your friend dismount him you can get infront of your target and lay the pain while his skills are all still on cd

      this is how bad whispering is compared to regular bow. on paper the range buff is op but to make full use of of it the users must take a hunter jacket and damage oriented armours and pray that the other side do not pop their defences?how unlikely
      the added damage of the undead arrow is also not someting notable as 1 hand daggers also provide the same amount of damage but with healing and mobility.
      even bow could do the same amount of damage per sec after stacking up for a bit

      scratch that regular bow actually do more damage because of resistance shred that last for 12 more hits which means about 6-9 seconds of resistance shred which your team can take advantage off

      i suggest changing the e on whispering bow completely as wispering is one of the only bows which is so lacking its damn funny besides the range that is.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().

    • Honestly if I was going to change whispering bow I'd keep its core identity as a long range attack weapon but change its mechanic.

      Instead of the current 35% range increase with magic dot on auto attacks, Make it a Moving Channel that allows you to chase

      Focus Fire : Mark a target, for the next 6 seconds you will automatically fire shots at your target while they are in skill range at the same rate as your attack speed. This skill will cancel.if the target is more than 25 metres away from you. These shots deal bonus magic damage on hit.
      Energy Cost: 60
      Cast Time: Moving Channel / Instant
      Range: 20m
      Cooldown: 60s

      It'd be an interesting weapon for kiting with some run skills, bit like siege balista, bonus dmg doesnt need to be high otherwise would be a bit busted.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by ReveVersant ().