Whispering bow vs Bow

    • Owlsane wrote:

      2- The anti-tank route (my favorite)
      This is okay, but I don't know if this would really help the whispering bow get much play. It would probably be better to replace the current damage with like 3% of max health true damage, on-hit, for some duration (probably the same as it is now). This way it would still be best against tanks but wouldn't be completely worthless against every other build in the game. And I also think that the 3% true damage on-hit will better take into account overall builds rather than just what someone is wearing in their chest slot. People can increase their resistances in all sorts of ways and can be pretty tanky even without a plate chest piece.
    • Okay. Nice. But how it will fix that bow? Actually, the real problem of that bow is: you need to be stationary to deal maximum damage. Many players tried to search a way to fix it, but the problem always persists, because doesnt matter what is the new proposal.. You would need to still sttoped to deal damage. This is the problem.

      ViniColen wrote:

      Simple buff to that bow: To allow you to attack whille moving when you use your E, increase skill duration to 10sec, but match dmg (8sec skill = 10sec skill in dmg), increase CD 20sec->30sec.
      Problem solution is here.. Changing the way of dealing damage of that bow wont solve the problem. You need to move while attacking = problem solved.

      Owlsane wrote:

      We need a true Q spell for auto-attacks.
      Agree. Shooting any of the 3 Q will only waste your E skill time. (of the whispering bow only)
    • ViniColen wrote:

      Simple buff to that bow: To allow you to attack whille moving when you use your E, increase skill duration to 10sec, but match dmg (8sec skill = 10sec skill in dmg), increase CD 20sec->30sec.
      A little change: Using soldier boots with that(or other boots, or shoes), you would be unstopable. Then, would be betther if:

      To allow you to attack whille moving when you use your E, increase skill duration to 10sec, but match dmg (8sec skill = 10sec skill in dmg), increase CD 20sec->30sec. When you use any shoes, boots or saldals "F", you lose your 'movement whille atacking' buff.
    • ViniColen wrote:

      To allow you to attack whille moving when you use your E, increase skill duration to 10sec, but match dmg (8sec skill = 10sec skill in dmg), increase CD 20sec->30sec. When you use any shoes, boots or saldals "F", you lose your 'movement whille atacking' buff.
      That would be weak. The whole point of builds is to use abilities together so that the total is greater than the sum of the parts.
    • Hopeful wrote:

      ViniColen wrote:

      To allow you to attack whille moving when you use your E, increase skill duration to 10sec, but match dmg (8sec skill = 10sec skill in dmg), increase CD 20sec->30sec. When you use any shoes, boots or saldals "F", you lose your 'movement whille atacking' buff.
      That would be weak. The whole point of builds is to use abilities together so that the total is greater than the sum of the parts.
      You can use your F when you are shoting your E. You will lose only the movement while attacking that i proposed. If you use the soldier boots F with my proposal buff, you wil be OP. Noone could stop you with you shoting and running for 16sec.

      We need to isolate the whispering bow problem. First we ask: What is the problem of that bow? -> The way that you are stationary when you use your E to deal damage. Agree?

      Second: How we cant fix that problem? -> Removing the stationary thing when you are shooting your E.

      Third: How we can do It? -> Allowing you to move while attacking when you are using whispering bow E.
    • ViniColen wrote:

      We need to isolate the whispering bow problem. First we ask: What is the problem of that bow? -> The way that you are stationary when you use your E to deal damage. Agree?
      I'd say the problem is that it is an artifact weapon that has no particularly good role in the game. Normal bow beats it for PvE (and it's armor shred is good in 5-man PvP). Warbow is better for solo. Wailing/Badon's is better for ZvZ. So it's damage is decent in various scenarious -- in PvE it has decent dps but there are better options in the bow line, in PvP it's ok but there are better options, in ZvZ it's not an optimal option. It's either decent or not great in most roles.

      So we can either pump it's damage, make it more mobile in combat as you suggest, or you can adjust its abilities to make it useful in certain types of particular situations.

      My suggestion has long been to make it's E ability more situationally useful. If it had an on-hit interrupt or a brief silence... it would be better in more solo situations, it would be more useful in 5-man PvP, and even in ZvZ it could be used to harass mages who get out of positions. If that's not good enough, or if it's too good, then make it an anti-tank weapon -- let it shred opponents based on their max HP. This would make it good in PvE, it would make it good in 5-man PvP, and it could even serve a role in ZvZ to punish enemy initiators after they dive in.

      I guess I don't mind the idea of adding mobility when the E is active, and I think that would immensely help solo play, but I just bristle a bit at prohibiting the use of multiple abilities at the same time. Many abilities are very strong in combination. That's the way it's supposed to be. And there is still counter-play available to what your propose even when allowing the combination -- various shields, resistances, interrupts, stuns, heals, invis, or whatever.

      Whatever the solution... I think we can all agree that the Whispering Bow needs some degree of a rework.
    • Hopeful wrote:

      ViniColen wrote:

      We need to isolate the whispering bow problem. First we ask: What is the problem of that bow? -> The way that you are stationary when you use your E to deal damage. Agree?
      I'd say the problem is that it is an artifact weapon that has no particularly good role in the game. Normal bow beats it for PvE (and it's armor shred is good in 5-man PvP). Warbow is better for solo. Wailing/Badon's is better for ZvZ. So it's damage is decent in various scenarious -- in PvE it has decent dps but there are better options in the bow line, in PvP it's ok but there are better options, in ZvZ it's not an optimal option. It's either decent or not great in most roles.
      So we can either pump it's damage, make it more mobile in combat as you suggest, or you can adjust its abilities to make it useful in certain types of particular situations.

      My suggestion has long been to make it's E ability more situationally useful. If it had an on-hit interrupt or a brief silence... it would be better in more solo situations, it would be more useful in 5-man PvP, and even in ZvZ it could be used to harass mages who get out of positions. If that's not good enough, or if it's too good, then make it an anti-tank weapon -- let it shred opponents based on their max HP. This would make it good in PvE, it would make it good in 5-man PvP, and it could even serve a role in ZvZ to punish enemy initiators after they dive in.

      I guess I don't mind the idea of adding mobility when the E is active, and I think that would immensely help solo play, but I just bristle a bit at prohibiting the use of multiple abilities at the same time. Many abilities are very strong in combination. That's the way it's supposed to be. And there is still counter-play available to what your propose even when allowing the combination -- various shields, resistances, interrupts, stuns, heals, invis, or whatever.

      Whatever the solution... I think we can all agree that the Whispering Bow needs some degree of a rework.
      I understand you. Maybe you are right too. Maybe giving only movement while attacking to whispering bow wont fix it at all. But i play with bows since the last beta. I have 400 for a long time. And the main issue that i see, and that i hear too, from others bow users is that whispering bow is so static when you use your E. Because if you move, you will waste skill time, and consequently, damage. This "stationary issue" was always the theme of reclamations, since the beginning. Normal bow is so much more mobile and deal more damage than whispering bow.

      But, as i said. Maybe giving only mobility wont fix it at all.. Maybe we must search for others things too. But, in my opinion, this is the main issue. Its a bow, not a crossbow.
    • After some time thinking about it, and testing in game, i came with something..

      The problem isnt in the "E". Whispering deal a lot of damage. You can kill easilly using one "E" if you enemy dont use deffensive skills. The problem is when your "E" ends, because bows lost damage a lot. The "Q" of bows has low dmg.

      • Whispering bow buff: Each undead arrow that hit your enemy create an buff of 0.8sec of duration that can be visible under your avatar. That buff allows you to move whilhe attacking, but witdraw your movment speed in 30%. It cannot accumulate. Shooting another arrow will only renew that buff. If you let it end, you wil move with 100% speed again, as normal, and will not be abble to attack while moving any more. You can shot again(if you still have your E active) to renew your buff. If you have any movement speed provided by your own shoes/sandals/boots, you wont gain that movement while attack buff. But you can still blink, change places, to roll without losing it. Movement speed provided by others skills(rapid shot) or others players will not cancel the buff. Duration: 8sec / CD: 20sec.
      • Multi shot buff: Every hit gives you one strong arrow(similar to spirit spear and heroic charge) (stacks up to 3 times). Every strong arrow increase your attack speed in 10%. Range: 13m->16m. Withdraw the standtime. Duration of every strong arrow: 8sec. Cd: 3sec. (Now whispering bow can compete with normal bow)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by ViniColen ().

    • Hopeful wrote:

      Zyrex wrote:

      -Add bonus damage equal to a certain % of the target's hp (not just players so we can make this viable both for PVE and PVP - it's only fair since regular bow does reduce target's resistances at max stacks)
      This wouldn't be too bad. It would then be a threat to tanks but wouldn't crush everything else.


      - That or make it deal 150-200 "True" damage per shot to actually make the turret-style gameplay "worth the risk, or worth sacrificing mobility for"

      Zyrex wrote:

      -Add a bonus 50%-60% attack speed while Undead arrows is active (so players don't have to resort to using Hunter's jacket, sacrificing defensives just so we can be a little bit more "optimal" with the damage output)
      I think this is too much and would make it completely wreck face everywhere.
      - A simple Purge from a Magerobe user or fiend cowl or just purge in general destroys the "strength" of this setup so I don't believe it can wreck face everywhere because there are a ton of variety pvp builds out there :)
    • Either add

      a.) Mobility while E is active (This is mostly only useful for chase/kite situations out in open world PvP) This does not solve the overall purpose to have the Whispering Bow in your PvE/PvP party

      b.) Add Additional 3% max true health damage per hit on top of your regular auto attack for a general overall buff (Applies for PvE and PvP)
      Benefits for this - Solid boss killer in PvE and possibly the next best choice for HCE
      -Solid overall dps in PvP against any situation (albeit countered easily by purge)


      *Many may say it would be "OP" but just remember, Undead Arrows is easily dispellable via purge same with Regular bow's

    • Zyrex wrote:

      Either add

      a.) Mobility while E is active (This is mostly only useful for chase/kite situations out in open world PvP) This does not solve the overall purpose to have the Whispering Bow in your PvE/PvP party

      b.) Add Additional 3% max true health damage per hit on top of your regular auto attack for a general overall buff (Applies for PvE and PvP)
      Benefits for this - Solid boss killer in PvE and possibly the next best choice for HCE
      -Solid overall dps in PvP against any situation (albeit countered easily by purge)


      *Many may say it would be "OP" but just remember, Undead Arrows is easily dispellable via purge same with Regular bow's
      Guys, mobility is more important that you think. I lost count how many times i had my E wasted. If you use your E and you must to stop attacking to run, you waste your E. And this happen a lot.

      Best option to attack with that bow is to take some distance, and shot someone. The problem is when your enemy starts to hit you and you need to run to avoid high damage, and dont lose the fight. Normal bow can do it perfectly, because it doesnt lose skill time, plus it can use another E if you have used your E before enter the fight(Everyone does it).

      With mobility, you can delay when you will need to move(but not avoid 100%). And bro.. This is a bow.. It has "mobility" in its soul. I dont know why that one doesnt have it.




      And yeah. Purge is a problem. Turning invisible too. ice block and more. That bow has a lot of counters.
    • - Just halve the standtime on autos like actually it's 0.40 standtime put it like 0.20.
      - Change E for either my 2 version of whispering bow : assasin or anti-tank version (the full 3% of the target max health as true damage actually deals less damage in every situation exept when somebody has 4k or more HP)
      - Either change multishot to my proposition or swap slots multishot with explosive shot. Add both 5s cd ans 5 shot to explosive shot instead of 10.

      It really doesn't need overcomplicated stuff if you halve the standtime lowered to 0.20.
      Also don't forget that bow has slow passive and combined with a low standtime it can be really good for kiting.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Owlsane ().

    • Owlsane wrote:

      - Just halve the standtime on autos like actually it's 0.40 standtime put it like 0.20.
      - Change E for either my 2 version of whispering bow : assasin or anti-tank version (the full 3% of the target max health as true damage actually deals less damage in every situation exept when somebody has 4k or more HP)
      - Either change multishot to my proposition or swap slots multishot with explosive shot. Add both 5s cd ans 5 shot to explosive shot instead of 10.

      It really doesn't need overcomplicated stuff if you halve the standtime lowered to 0.20.
      Also don't forget that bow has slow passive and combined with a low standtime it can be really good for kiting.
      Bro.. Lowering auto attack standtime wont solve the problem. Will help more the normal bow(and its good enough) than whispering bow. You cant cait if you need to waste skill time to do that...
      As you said. No need to overcomplicated things. We need to cait with whispering bow. To do that, only allowing you to attack while moving.

      Owlsane wrote:

      Enchanted Quiver and the kiting bow contradiction
      For me bow are not machine turret weapon. They were presented me as a kiting weapon since the beginning not as a machine turret. If people wants machine turret weapons they have fire and frost staff for that, they do the work better. When people tells me that the whole weapon line is all about kiting but you have just the god of machine turret in it i can only feel that those guys are hard on the drugs and trust me that's a lot of lads that i know that believe hard on that.
      Right and wrong. Every game i have played, bows are presented to me having high speed attack, low dmg per attack. But as you said, it is a kiting weapon too. But we cant do it if we need to still stopped to attack. This isnt bow. Bow was always a kiting machine turret.

      Owlsane wrote:

      We need a true Q spell for auto-attacks...
      We still need a true Q spell designed for auto-attacks. Actually nobody use multishot since the other 2 Q spells does 10000000 times better their role and damage. This is the best oportunity to rework this spell.
      I agree.

      Zyrex wrote:

      Either add

      a.) Mobility while E is active (This is mostly only useful for chase/kite situations out in open world PvP) This does not solve the overall purpose to have the Whispering Bow in your PvE/PvP party

      b.) Add Additional 3% max true health damage per hit on top of your regular auto attack for a general overall buff (Applies for PvE and PvP)
      Benefits for this - Solid boss killer in PvE and possibly the next best choice for HCE
      -Solid overall dps in PvP against any situation (albeit countered easily by purge)


      *Many may say it would be "OP" but just remember, Undead Arrows is easily dispellable via purge same with Regular bow's
      I like your second proposal too. But we need to test it immediately on test server.
    • ViniColen wrote:

      Bro.. Lowering auto attack standtime wont solve the problem. Will help more the normal bow(and its good enough) than whispering bow. You cant cait if you need to waste skill time to do that... As you said. No need to overcomplicated things. We need to cait with whispering bow. To do that, only allowing you to attack while moving.
      • Whispering bow buff: Each undead arrow that hit your enemy create an buff of 0.8sec of duration that can be visible under your avatar. That buff allows you to move whilhe attacking, but witdraw your movment speed in 30%. It cannot accumulate. Shooting another arrow will only renew that buff. If you let it end, you wil move with 100% speed again, as normal, and will not be abble to attack while moving any more. You can shot again(if you still have your E active) to renew your buff. If you have any movement speed provided by your own shoes/sandals/boots, you wont gain that movement while attack buff. But you can still blink, change places, to roll without losing it. Movement speed provided by others skills(rapid shot) or others players will not cancel the buff. Duration: 8sec / CD: 20sec.
      • Multi shot buff: Every hit gives you one strong arrow(similar to spirit spear and heroic charge) (stacks up to 3 times). Every strong arrow increase your attack speed in 10%. Range: 13m->16m. Withdraw the standtime. Duration of every strong arrow: 8sec. Cd: 3sec. (Now whispering bow can compete with normal bow)

      It will be still a better solution appliying all situation possible than yours. Let me explain why.

      Your proposition makes you having a 30% slow on yourself for 0.8s right? In that case, that means, with the base AS of bows and theorethicaly if you hit everytime when your AA is up, you have that permanent 30% slow.
      • Maths : 5.5 m/s * 0.7 = 3.85 m/s
      On my situation with the reduction of standtime : you got from 0.40 to 0.20 standtime that means each autos you will stay immobile for 0.2s. I'll apply 4 AS variants to see the m/s delta between your proposition and mine which is 1.3 AS, 1.8 AS (with attack speed passive ON), 2.1 AS (with hunter jacket attack speed buff) and 2.5 AS (which is a normal bow at max stack)
      • Maths for 1.3 AS : 0.2 * 1.3 = 0.26 standtime on average per auto that means 0.74s when you are mobile // 5.5 * 0.74 = 4.07 m/s
      • Maths for 1.8 AS : 0.2 * 1.8 = 0.36 standtime on average per auto that means 0.64s when you are mobile // 5.5 * 0.64 = 3.52 m/s
      • Maths for 2.1 AS : 0.1 * 2.1 = 0.42 standtime on average per auto that means 0.58s when you are mobile // 5.5 * 0.58 = 3.19 m/s
      • Maths for 2.5 AS : 0.2 * 2.5 = 0.5 stantime on average per auto that means 0.50s when you are mobile // 5.5 * 0.5 = 2.75 m/s
      So by comparison without AS buffs my solutions has better mobility than yours but yours begins to be better the more AS you get. Now here is the thing, your situation applies only specifically when you have undead arrow activated while my proposition is to make bows more consistent overall. What i mean by that is, when your buff is down you goes back with 0.4 stantime on auto, which means if someday you get a auto-based Q you will even be slower when spell is on CD (you have the same movement on average than my solution with 2.5 AS).

      Now i list here all pros and cons of my solution in comparison of yours :
      - Overall better mobility in most situations
      - Less mobility at high attack speed during E spell
      - Less fucked by purges
      - Will need people to know well their timers on when autoing to optimise MS
      - Easy change and not overcomplicated mechanic
      - You can still use boots to help with your kiting
      - Combo with slow poison, they will have a harder time to gapclose on you



      ViniColen wrote:

      Right and wrong. Every game i have played, bows are presented to me having high speed attack, low dmg per attack. But as you said, it is a kiting weapon too. But we cant do it if we need to still stopped to attack. This isnt bow. Bow was always a kiting machine turret.
      Same for me, bow was for most of my games i've played an high AS weapon but clearly not a sitting duck immobile weapon. I never played a game with bow that could have mobility while autoing (they still had this standtime) but at least that standtime was so low that it felt like you were almost as mobile as somebody just running around. Just to add a reason why huge standtime is a nightmare for auto-builds and that need to be solved immediatly, you physically can't move while autoing past 2.5 AS and therorethically with ping and human movements you will begin to be a immobile at 2.1-2.2 AS. My solution just doubles the threshold (phisically impossible to move a 5.0 AS which is theroetically impossible to achieve atm and 4.0 AS in ping+human movement situation). You will obviously have less mobility the more AS you get vs somebody that just run but at least you can seriously add AS items in the build options. So again, while your solution helps whispering during the spell buff, when you're without the E buff you're pretty much comeback with the main issue.

      I'm not here to bash on your solution. I feel you're loking on the exact same direction and i really appreciate that but i'm looking to solve auto-builds bows (also in auto-builds in general) by tackling it with an overall solution rather than a verry narrow windup that can be very inconsistent.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Owlsane ().

    • Owlsane wrote:

      - Just halve the standtime on autos like actually it's 0.40 standtime put it like 0.20.
      - Change E for either my 2 version of whispering bow : assasin or anti-tank version (the full 3% of the target max health as true damage actually deals less damage in every situation exept when somebody has 4k or more HP)
      - Either change multishot to my proposition or swap slots multishot with explosive shot. Add both 5s cd ans 5 shot to explosive shot instead of 10.

      It really doesn't need overcomplicated stuff if you halve the standtime lowered to 0.20.
      Also don't forget that bow has slow passive and combined with a low standtime it can be really good for kiting.
      That swapping of Multishot with explosive shot is a big brain idea + the cd reduction allowing an auto-based explosive shot + either undead arrows or Enchanted quivers with W being frost shot for better mobility OR speed shot for a PvE single-target oriented build

      ^ Although this won't fix the standtime issues it is still a very wonderful suggestion for this setup
    • Zyrex wrote:

      ^ Although this won't fix the standtime issues it is still a very wonderful suggestion for this setup
      Standtime isn't a real problem if it's farily treated like my examples above. As is it for now, a simple auto-attack has more standtime than the vast majority of all spells in the game and half of them at least has half the standtime or even less vs an auto-attack.

      Put that aside i want to come back the suggestion of my anti-tank version of undead arrow change. After doing calculation, it does way to more damage. Well on cloth it's like a 15% increased damage but for plate i basically almost double the damage ouput plus the fact that it's quite some complicated mechanic to add imho.

      So i'll side to the replace base bonus damage for bonus true damage on max hp. Now i'll add 2 things :
      1) 3% => 4% max health true damage. The reason is to make that the total damage doesn't change vs clothies (3% you will nerf it vs cloths) and you will deal around 40% more damage vs tanks which is fairer than my version LUL
      2) We will need to put a base damage vs monsters and mounted players. The damage you can ouput it's beyond insane with max health true damage (400k hp bosses basically takes 21k damage per hit...). So i'll suggest to stick with the 50.00 base magic damage or something like 30.00 base true damage.

      Zyrex wrote:

      That swapping of Multishot with explosive shot is a big brain idea + the cd reduction allowing an auto-based explosive shot + either undead arrows or Enchanted quivers with W being frost shot for better mobility OR speed shot for a PvE single-target oriented build
      By putting multishot as W with 5s cd it will get with explosive shot the same cd, multishot can basically burn. Great sinergy in that regard. You can remove the mechanic added to deny the 10 stacks to disapear at once since you now only get 5 stacks. Good auto-attack Q spell and like you said gives you real options as W for auto-builds.
    • Owlsane wrote:

      So by comparison without AS buffs my solutions has better mobility than yours but yours begins to be better the more AS you get. Now here is the thing, your situation applies only specifically when you have undead arrow activated while my proposition is to make bows more consistent overall. What i mean by that is, when your buff is down you goes back with 0.4 stantime on auto, which means if someday you get a auto-based Q you will even be slower when spell is on CD (you have the same movement on average than my solution with 2.5 AS)
      Only two bows are auto attack weapons: Whispering bow and Normal bow. With your proposal, you will help more the normal bow than the whispering bow. It is that what we want?
      You are forgeting something. With normal bow you can run and shot without losing your "E". Whispering bow cant do it. If you need to move, with whispering bow E active, you will lose damage. With normal bow, you wont. This is the point.
      • Whispering bow E is an active skill with 8sec duration. You need to use every second to deal the maximum damage. If you need to move, you lose damage. Because of that, every whispering bow user will be stationary to do something.
      • Normal bow E is an active skill with 30sec duration. It has 18 enchant arrows that you can use easily with 30sec. Plus, you can use your E immediately after your E ends. This is why you can stop to attack to run, then return to attack again. You will not lose damage
      Because of that, decreasing stand time will help "50%" whispering bow(wont solve the problem) and "50%" normal bow. Allowing you to move while attacking will help "100%" whispering bow and "0%" normal bow.

      Owlsane wrote:

      Your proposition makes you having a 30% slow on yourself for 0.8s right? In that case, that means, with the base AS of bows and theorethicaly if you hit everytime when your AA is up, you have that permanent 30% slow.


      Maths : 5.5 m/s * 0.7 = 3.85 m/s
      On my situation with the reduction of standtime : you got from 0.40 to 0.20 standtime that means each autos you will stay immobile for 0.2s. I'll apply 4 AS variants to see the m/s delta between your proposition and mine which is 1.3 AS, 1.8 AS (with attack speed passive ON), 2.1 AS (with hunter jacket attack speed buff) and 2.5 AS (which is a normal bow at max stack)


      Maths for 1.3 AS : 0.2 * 1.3 = 0.26 standtime on average per auto that means 0.74s when you are mobile // 5.5 * 0.74 = 4.07 m/s

      Maths for 1.8 AS : 0.2 * 1.8 = 0.36 standtime on average per auto that means 0.64s when you are mobile // 5.5 * 0.64 = 3.52 m/s

      Maths for 2.1 AS : 0.1 * 2.1 = 0.42 standtime on average per auto that means 0.58s when you are mobile // 5.5 * 0.58 = 3.19 m/s

      Maths for 2.5 AS : 0.2 * 2.5 = 0.5 stantime on average per auto that means 0.50s when you are mobile // 5.5 * 0.5 = 2.75 m/s
      All numbers are just expeculation. I havent the tools to test it. You can lose 30, 20, 10% of movement speed. But i dont know for sure if it will be balanced. I used only my consciousness to balance it. I just dont think allowing you to move normally whille attacking will be balanced, because i think you will be unstopable. But, i can be wrong too. It is the devs that must test it.

      Remember: If you move, you lose dmg. This proposal is not to let you move longer. It is to dont let you stationary. If you decrease stand time, you will still losing damage if you move. Not for normal bow.
    • I’d like to keep whispering bow as it is, your so wrong about it in a mobility fight, do you know how much bloody range whispering has and how much damage it stacks? Q and frost shot back, then proceed to chew through, add a poison and you melt. Melted a 6k boss in 45 seconds with no specs.
      Also bow is easy countered by 90% of the cc classes or purge
      Also your thread is still constantly wrong about bow v whispering, have you even ever used it properly? Whispering is the LMG, pair it with poison and you deal insane long range dps while chasing. Why do people make threads like these without thinking of testing it, actually testing it nor watching YouTube or using the test server, using it in a real situation.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Sgtbloodelf ().

    • Zyrex wrote:

      Owlsane wrote:

      - Just halve the standtime on autos like actually it's 0.40 standtime put it like 0.20.
      - Change E for either my 2 version of whispering bow : assasin or anti-tank version (the full 3% of the target max health as true damage actually deals less damage in every situation exept when somebody has 4k or more HP)
      - Either change multishot to my proposition or swap slots multishot with explosive shot. Add both 5s cd ans 5 shot to explosive shot instead of 10.

      It really doesn't need overcomplicated stuff if you halve the standtime lowered to 0.20.
      Also don't forget that bow has slow passive and combined with a low standtime it can be really good for kiting.
      That swapping of Multishot with explosive shot is a big brain idea + the cd reduction allowing an auto-based explosive shot + either undead arrows or Enchanted quivers with W being frost shot for better mobility OR speed shot for a PvE single-target oriented build
      ^ Although this won't fix the standtime issues it is still a very wonderful suggestion for this setup
      also no, that would make normal bow the strongest bow in the game due to the buffs, if you don’t have purge you won’t outheal or dps, there are basic concepts that I’d hope the general populous would know, mobility or damage.
      Ps, I won 9/10 hellgates in a row using whispering in all hunter gear, it melts tanks like butter just as it does healers and anything else, your cooldowns run out just refreshing and pork omelette and kablonk, granted did have a dagger support but still, I did 90% of the damage.