Questions about cooldown modifiers

    • Questions about cooldown modifiers

      Can someone explain me how actually works cooldown modifiers? I ask this because when i wear and use items, the cooldown modifier i get doesn't match from what i get on paper.

      Here some examples (tested in testserver)
      • 8.3 Royal Shoes with CD passive
        it's says 2.6% CD modifier in the item window but i get 2.5% in my stats window.
      • 8.3 Leather Set with CD passive
        I should get 2.6+2.6+5.3 = 10.5% CD modifier on paper but i get 9.4% in my stats window
      • 8.3 Leather Set with CD passive + 8.3 MP mistcaller
        I should get 2.6+2.6+5.3+19 = 29.5% CD modifier on paper but i get 23% in my stats window
      • 8.3 Leather Set with CD passive + 8.3 MP mistcaller + 7.1 omelette
        I should get 2.6+2.6+5.3+19+15 = 44.5% CD modifier on paper but i get 32% in my stats window
      • 8.3 Leather set (royal jacket with royal banner spell active) with CD passive + 8.3 MP mistcaller + 7.1 omelette
        I should get 2.6+2.6+5.3+19+15+50 = 94.5%* CD modifier on paper but i get 60% in my stats window
      So there is obviously a diminishing return in order to avoid getting people to use full CD builds to get 75% cd reduction easily. But for some reason in those 2 situation :
      • 8.3 Royal jacket with royal banner spell active and no CD passive
        I get 50% CD modifier on paper and i get 50% CD modifier on my stats window
      • 7.1 Omelette
        I get 15% CD modifier on paper and i get 15% CD on my stats window
      I get the full CD modifier with royal jacket for some reason while on the 44.5% CD modifier situation i have a quite visible diminishing return and i get full CD modifier using the omelette while a single item piece get's already a diminishing return.

      At first, before i even began to check and test things i whould assume that every CD modifiers from food and item stats whould apply fully and then when you use the royal jacket you apply 50% CD modifier to your actual CD spells like thoses examples...
      • Explosive Bolt with 0% CD modifier = 2s
        When Royal banner is active = 1s
      • Explosive Bolt with 44.5% CD modifier = 1.11s
        When Royal banner is active = 0.55s
      But it's clearly not the case (the second example for sure... i got 0.81s CD on explosive bolt) but it's even more confusing since diminishing return applies or not depending the situation.

      So yeah... how actually CD modifiers works?

      EDIT : @Retroman i assume since you work into the balance of the game that you know how it works. So if you can answer my question it would be great ^^

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Owlsane ().

    • These are the same numbers. Just presented differently.
      These modifiers are additive values.

      You may verify your own cases, for instance:
      1+0.05263+0.02564+0.02564 is almost equal to 1/(1-0.09413)
      You only see two digits in the UI, hence the rounded value 9.4%

      Two tricky things to take into account though:
      1) The cooldown modifier of the inventory tab is written with two digits. This rounding problem is obvious in certain situations (for a instance a T7 omelette with no other bonus)
      2) The omelette modifier is already given in its multiplicative format which is misleading if associated with other elements to which it has to be added.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Volnay ().

    • I know some stuffs are on two digits and some are not but that's clearly not the point of the topic.

      I don't know where your 1/(1-09413) comes from and why is it a thing in the math.

      Your rounding stuff doesn't explain why i get a 12% differential between paper and reality when using full cd set and 34% differential with royal jacket active. It doesn't explain why i get 9.4% when on paper i should get 10.5%...that's a 1.1% differential that even the most rounding method can't make.


      Everything that i've posted here was tested on the test server i don't need to verify anything from that. I litteraly typed the values in this topic while i was on the test server at the same time.

      My question is : How the CD reduction works in reality? Why i get more and more diminishing returns the more i get CD? Why for some reason the only 2 things that doesn't apply diminishing returns when using them only but using CD passive on 1 item (literraly 2.5% or 5% CD modifier) you already get diminishing returns?
    • Owlsane wrote:

      So there is obviously a diminishing return in order to avoid getting people to use full CD builds to get 75% cd reduction easily. But for some reason in those 2 situation :


      8.3 Royal jacket with royal banner spell active and no CD passive
      I get 50% CD modifier on paper and i get 50% CD modifier on my stats window

      7.1 Omelette
      I get 15% CD modifier on paper and i get 15% CD on my stats window
      I get the full CD modifier with royal jacket for some reason while on the 44.5% CD modifier situation i have a quite visible diminishing return and i get full CD modifier using the omelette while a single item piece get's already a diminishing return.

      Owlsane wrote:

      So yeah... how actually CD modifiers works?

      Volnay wrote:

      These modifiers are additive values.
      From the numbers presented its clear that the bonuses are MULTIPLICATIVE, not additive.

      That is also why he gets full 50% CD modfier with just 1 item (Royal Jacket) as there is nothing else to multiply it with. As soon as 2+ items are combined, the bonuses start to diminish = multiplicative
    • Owlsane wrote:

      I don't know where your 1/(1-09413) comes from and why is it a thing in the math.
      This comes from basic maths. I hope the following explanation makes it clear for you.
      In this case applying a 9.4% (rounded) reduction to a value is the same as dividing it by (1+0.05263+0.02564+0.02564).
      And all your cases follow the same logic.

      Let's take an example you haven't proposed yet so that you can check it.
      cdr on head, chest and feet + mistcaller (a normal 8.3 though, given as a +18% modifier) + royal jacket spell activated
      1 + 0.02564 + 0.05263 + 0.02564 + 0.18 + 1 = 2.28391. The multiplicative inverse is 0.4378. It's a (1-0.4378) 56.21% cooldown reduction - rounded to 56% in the UI.
      The -50% reduction on the base value is +100% bonus. As I wrote in the first message, some values are given as directly additive bonuses (passive, mistcaller), some are given as a reduction (omelette) read as an indirect multiplicative factor on the base value.
    • Volnay wrote:

      Owlsane wrote:

      I don't know where your 1/(1-09413) comes from and why is it a thing in the math.
      This comes from basic maths. I hope the following explanation makes it clear for you.In this case applying a 9.4% (rounded) reduction to a value is the same as dividing it by (1+0.05263+0.02564+0.02564).
      And all your cases follow the same logic.

      Let's take an example you haven't proposed yet so that you can check it.
      cdr on head, chest and feet + mistcaller (a normal 8.3 though, given as a +18% modifier) + royal jacket spell activated
      1 + 0.02564 + 0.05263 + 0.02564 + 0.18 + 1 = 2.28391. The multiplicative inverse is 0.4378. It's a (1-0.4378) 56.21% cooldown reduction - rounded to 56% in the UI.
      The -50% reduction on the base value is +100% bonus. As I wrote in the first message, some values are given as directly additive bonuses (passive, mistcaller), some are given as a reduction (omelette) read as an indirect multiplicative factor on the base value.
      Ok it make more sense now that you explain in detail.


      solventh wrote:

      you people made me realize something.

      @Retroman, please consider using only "one" digit after the integers. e.g. 6.1 instead of 6.12. this way, the server cpu's might calculate all the fucking attributes of people in the cluster, faster. sure, i m not sure, but you might test this and get a real world result somehow.
      Yeah imo they could just simplify all thoses passives and stats that has "36000" digits after the ","