T8 Mat nodes nerfed to 3 tics!!?

    • ImaDoki wrote:

      Such agressive behaviour... you are just mad you cant run around with shit gear until you find a T8 AND THEN get the full set to gather.

      Dont use avalonian, use swiftclaw and MIRACLE, you gear is worth 500~600k instead of "8 million" ,even less if you craft them yourself.

      Seriously curious as from where did you get that 8 million from.

      If gathering is so dead, dont gather, better to us.
      DAmn , u will get al lyour gear for a 1/2 nods . Congrats !!! u will get 4 8.3 and not 3 withotu gear !!!


      God LOL


      People never gathered and think they know ...

      Gathering right now is dead btw . Always empty everywhere , XEPT t8 t7 u find some full nods , soo people try find them . After Queen , gathering vocation 100 % dead . People like u said the same when i said t8 system was bad by only put them in terry ( with a timmer lol ) now all this people shut up and dont say anything because i was right .


      Oh remember to bring your 1.5 million avalion tool , for the 1/2 !!!


      When someone say to go with normal tool on a 1/2 nods , u proof what i said :D Cant be a vocation anymore .

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Buldozer ().

    • Zalrenic wrote:

      ImaDoki wrote:

      Dont use avalonian, use swiftclaw and MIRACLE, you gear is worth 500~600k instead of "8 million" ,even less if you craft them yourself.
      Something doesn't become "worth less" simply because you craft it yourself... It has the same value regardless of who crafts it or how it was obtained.
      I am not saying he is right, and you are wrong, or that you are right and he is wrong. But, having made this statement, how would you evaluate the following situations.

      A) I own 3 T8 Broadswords, of normal quality. One is crafted by me, and has my name on the info panel. The next has a clean info panel with no crafted by line. The last was crafted by a gamemaster. How would you rank the three in value order? Why?

      B) I craft 3 more T8 Broadswords. I get a normal, an exceptional and a masterpiece. All three have identical economic inputs. Should I sell them all for the same price? Why?

      C) I craft a T6 Broadsword, normal quality, in Caerleon, using focus. It costs me 240 focus. Another player crafts a T6 Broadsword, normal quality, also in Caerleon and using focus. It costs him 720 focus. Are the values of the two swords the same? Why?

      D) I tell my friend I looked at a 2020 Mercades E450 at the dealership, thinking about buying it. He offers to just steal the car and sell it to me. Does the value of the car remain the same? Why? (I apologize that I couldn't come up with a reasonable AO analogy that wouldn't end up just causing more problems)
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Piddle wrote:

      Zalrenic wrote:

      ImaDoki wrote:

      Dont use avalonian, use swiftclaw and MIRACLE, you gear is worth 500~600k instead of "8 million" ,even less if you craft them yourself.
      Something doesn't become "worth less" simply because you craft it yourself... It has the same value regardless of who crafts it or how it was obtained.
      I am not saying he is right, and you are wrong, or that you are right and he is wrong. But, having made this statement, how would you evaluate the following situations.
      A) I own 3 T8 Broadswords, of normal quality. One is crafted by me, and has my name on the info panel. The next has a clean info panel with no crafted by line. The last was crafted by a gamemaster. How would you rank the three in value order? Why?

      B) I craft 3 more T8 Broadswords. I get a normal, an exceptional and a masterpiece. All three have identical economic inputs. Should I sell them all for the same price? Why?

      C) I craft a T6 Broadsword, normal quality, in Caerleon, using focus. It costs me 240 focus. Another player crafts a T6 Broadsword, normal quality, also in Caerleon and using focus. It costs him 720 focus. Are the values of the two swords the same? Why?

      D) I tell my friend I looked at a 2020 Mercades E450 at the dealership, thinking about buying it. He offers to just steal the car and sell it to me. Does the value of the car remain the same? Why? (I apologize that I couldn't come up with a reasonable AO analogy that wouldn't end up just causing more problems)
      oh man, I have such a love hate relationship with Piddle. But very well said above.

      Also - I think there is always (in every game forum) a misunderstanding between the term "value" and "cost". Crafting the set yourself - has a much lower cost. It costs me something around 100k to make my own t8 gathering set (with the tool included). While buying the same on the market can cost between 300-700k. Potentially because the market sellers are not as fully optimized for production efficiency as I am, or perhaps they are greedy (and understandably they'd want to have a profit too). Many different factors.

      But crafting a gathering set yourself costs way way less then buying one off the market. The value of the set stays the same whether you buy it or craft it - sure. But I don't really care about the value when I am going to use it for myself, and in such a way - where I make multiple times over the value of the set in profits from gathered resources. Low cost gives me a high ROI (Return on Investment), so while the value is not irrelevant, its of no great importance to me.

      To answer the questions above (I think we all know the answers, but just for fun):

      A) I would rank the one by gamemaster as higher in value. The other 2 on the same value level (sorry no hard feelings). Why? Because the one by the gamemaster could be considered a "rare-ish" item. Pretty speculative tho, but still.

      B) This one goes without saying, the value would look like: Normal < Exceptional < Masterpiece. Why? Because there is a clearly defined bonus in Item Power for the higher quality.

      C) The values of the 2 swords are the same, but the costs to produce them are different. Its cheaper for you (less focus), so you get a higher profit margin from it. Why? The value is something that "the entire population of the server would pay for that sword, on avg". That of course does not take into account the crafting costs (or to paraphrase - that would take into account costs of all the non-specced crafters, and people who are just lazy to craft or don't care) - therefore the value would be higher than the cost to craft it for a well optimized crafter. The difference between the 2 (the cost and the value) would be the profit margin.

      D) A stolen car would have less value IF and only IF it is disclosed to the buyer that its stolen. Because that technically affects the condition of it (unable to re-sell later on, legally at least, possibility of being stopped by police, etc.. etc...) However if is unknown to the buyer that the vehicle is stolen - the value should be the same. Why? I see what you tried doing here, but RL examples are a bit more difficult to portray correctly - as there is a lot of small nuances involved in how we perceive things and how we perceive value based on stigma, condition of the items, etc... etc... Re-selling an item you loot off of somebody in PVP should have the same value as any other item of the same type, tier and quality - but because the item was obtain technically "for free" - i.e looted off a dead body - the cost of it could be deemed as non-existant, and therefore could be sold at a lower price.
    • Piddle wrote:

      I am not saying he is right, and you are wrong, or that you are right and he is wrong. But, having made this statement, how would you evaluate the following situations.
      A) I own 3 T8 Broadswords, of normal quality. One is crafted by me, and has my name on the info panel. The next has a clean info panel with no crafted by line. The last was crafted by a gamemaster. How would you rank the three in value order? Why?

      B) I craft 3 more T8 Broadswords. I get a normal, an exceptional and a masterpiece. All three have identical economic inputs. Should I sell them all for the same price? Why?

      C) I craft a T6 Broadsword, normal quality, in Caerleon, using focus. It costs me 240 focus. Another player crafts a T6 Broadsword, normal quality, also in Caerleon and using focus. It costs him 720 focus. Are the values of the two swords the same? Why?

      D) I tell my friend I looked at a 2020 Mercades E450 at the dealership, thinking about buying it. He offers to just steal the car and sell it to me. Does the value of the car remain the same? Why? (I apologize that I couldn't come up with a reasonable AO analogy that wouldn't end up just causing more problems)
      A) They all have the same value. They are identical in every way that matters. The utility of an item does not change based on the crafter.
      B) These are not the same items and therefore do not have the same value.
      C) Your friend does not have ownership of the vehicle to sell it. It's value would be reduced by the cost of replacing VIN and circumventing any other legal issues.... unless you don't have to worry about that sort of thing... if you didn't, than it's value would remain the same.

      That said, I wasn't talking about value. I was talking about *worth* (i.e. price)... something is worth what someone else will pay for it. The buyer doesn't care if you produced it, or bought it... they only care about the market rate. You can get a thing for lower cost, but that doesn't change what someone else is willing to pay for it (it's worth).
    • Consi wrote:

      Full Spec enables 4 T8 nodes with R as turbo to farm, new nodes have 3. That only shows how rash the procedure in this case is.
      To be correct new nodes will have 2 not 3, 3 is t7 xD. Though they already said they are changing the system to allow 2 stacks up to ? 15 or 16? Not sure yet. But either way we should see bigger nodes also.

      PS. We all bitched about t8 but what about t7? Are we getting random big nodes for t7? Because currently we have tons of t7 with 23 stacks on them and You cannot tell me that on the new map there is a ton more t7 nodes over what we have being that they only have 3 stacks now so are we going to see random big nodes of t7 also? Or are we stuck with 3 stack t7 nodes?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Neef ().

    • Captainrussia wrote:

      To answer the questions above (I think we all know the answers, but just for fun):
      The trick is that we haven't really figured this stuff out. There are both objective and subjective theories of value. Adam Smith and Karl Marx didn't agree on a whole lot, but they both had very similar objective theories of value. Even if they both admitted to various flaws in those theories. Objective theories work really great and make a lot of sense. That is, until you actually walk down a street and look around at the world as it is.

      Those 4 questions were a quick and dirty weather vane to narrow down where someone is on the Obj <--> Sub spectrum.

      A) Is 3 items with identical utility. The difference in crafting mark doesn't change their ability to effectively stab someone to death in game. However, I can get a significant premium for the GM stamped sword and a small premium for the one with the clean info panel. Unfortunately, no one will pay extra for a sword with a little Piddle on it.

      B) Is 3 items with identical inputs. This is sort of the crux of objective theories. The value of the item is the value of the aggregate inputs. In this case though the outputs have completely different utility. There are actual human beings who will tell you that all three swords have the same value. That the fact that they have individually different utility is irrelevant. Inputs => Outputs. Other people will work backwards from the utility. The MP has to be more valuable than the EX. The EX has to be more valuable than the normal.

      C) This one is just me curious what people think. The value of the output is identical, but the cost to me and the other person, due to focus costs, are obviously different. It gets even more wonky because we don't know what the opportunity costs are for he and I. Crafting T6 Broadswords with my character may be wildly sub-optimal use of focus, while for the other person it may be optimal.

      D) Is just me trying to put as bluntly as possible that, "how it was obtained" is certainly an important part of value/cost discussions. They are the same identical car, but because of how we they were obtained they have significantly different utility profiles. If a cop pulls me over driving a stolen car, it's not ideal. So, obviously I can't be willing to pay the same amount of it. Even if I load the thing on a ship and mail it to South America, it won't fetch the same price as a legally obtained one.


      Zalrenic wrote:

      A) They all have the same value. They are identical in every way that matters. The utility of an item does not change based on the crafter.B) These are not the same items and therefore do not have the same value.
      C) Your friend does not have ownership of the vehicle to sell it. It's value would be reduced by the cost of replacing VIN and circumventing any other legal issues.... unless you don't have to worry about that sort of thing... if you didn't, than it's value would remain the same.

      That said, I wasn't talking about value. I was talking about *worth* (i.e. price)... something is worth what someone else will pay for it. The buyer doesn't care if you produced it, or bought it... they only care about the market rate. You can get a thing for lower cost, but that doesn't change what someone else is willing to pay for it (it's worth).
      I don't expect people to be particularly nuanced when discussing cost, price and value on open forums. However your answer for A and your claim that "price" is what someone else will pay for it, contradict reality. This one pops up mostly in "collector" circles. You have two identical shotguns. The only exception is that one of them was engraved by a world renowned master, now dead. The other is straight from the factory. The one is worth a million dollars and the other is worth about three thousand. Then there is celebrity, sort of like in my example A), two cars, again identical, one was driven either in a movie, or owned and driven by someone famous. The other was just a car. The prices are not based on the utility.

      I am sort of with you on this one though, I tend to undervalue these sorts of differences and overvalue utility differences. But, if I ignore reality, that other people evaluate these things differently than I do, then I end up leaving a lot of money/silver on the table. In the end earning less. So I make some effort to be at least aware of value these differences hold to others.

      In general I find that when items are treated more like commodities that their evaluations become more objective, but when they are individualized they can become quite subjective, quite fast. These sorts of things are most interesting to me because it is these very disagreements on evaluations that quite literally drive markets. When someone says something is too expensive, they are literally saying that their evaluation of that items is different than the markets, the same as if they believe it is too cheap. Every day, in every country, there are people running around trying to profit from this difference between their perception of value and the markets, and its a huge part of what we call capitalism.

      PS In general, people are going to assume that "worth" is a synonym for "value", more often than price. Those two being sort of definitively subjective. Rather than price which is almost always a number that two people can both point at. These days, generally, I find it is cost (the value of inputs), value (what you get from the thing) and price (the amount you pay for the thing). All of these things get used sort of willy nilly though, and I generally just avoid having to talk about them, due to the amount of time it takes to get on the same page before you can even get to a topic.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Piddle wrote:


      PS In general, people are going to assume that "worth" is a synonym for "value", more often than price. Those two being sort of definitively subjective. Rather than price which is almost always a number that two people can both point at. These days, generally, I find it is cost (the value of inputs), value (what you get from the thing) and price (the amount you pay for the thing). All of these things get used sort of willy nilly though, and I generally just avoid having to talk about them, due to the amount of time it takes to get on the same page before you can even get to a topic.
      And that is basically a good summary of why the average person is poor.
    • Robinhoodrs wrote:

      I think this is the worst change in Queen, hands down.

      We had this system in beta and it was cancer, the amount of high tier resources were far and in-between making end-game gear explode in price, but right now we have guilds that have this stockpiled through the roof
      and can last them a year or more... newer guilds would be struggling to catch up, with their gatherers finding one "charge" T8 resources only.

      Right now the resources are in a good place, with maybe a change in how their timers are when they spawn, that's all what needs changing. @Korn please don't bring this change in.

      I agree, I can only play a couple hours a day, and when I gather it is hard enough to get stone. T8 and t7. I think their reasoning is "not well thought out" and lacks a sense of the players who gather, and craft.
      Live, Laugh, Play :)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Evas_Flarelight: Edited for clarity. Removed @ImaDoki's quote and moved LadyDaisy's reply at the end of the post. ().

    • I think once the queen hype slows down the nodes will get better, Just like after F2P launch, But I do feel that the spawn timers for t7 and t8 are too long and should have been reduced for the launch of queen at the very least like they did for the F2P launch. But I do feel they should be reduced even after some time has passed because the spawn timers for large nodes are just nuts and small nodes could also have better timers.
    • Buldozer wrote:

      Ok u will still find a few , but no worry , gatherer will clean 100 %
      But that was intended and the whole point of the patch, no? :)

      They made is so that Buldozer and Darthmagus cannot gather as much (unless their guild patrols the zone) - but all the other shitty no-name gatheres get a piece of the pie. Socialism! (and btw - total number of resources in BZ did not change).

      Watchtower upgrades should provide a gathering bonus tho... but again - if you don't control the zone - others will come and take it from you!
    • solventh wrote:

      Captainrussia wrote:

      But that was intended and the whole point of the patch, no? :)
      yeah, they made me stop playing this game after full 3 years. wish me luck on aoe2:de.
      this game needs to focus on small scale and solo pvp activities. we players, want it more.
      gathering changes and focus on small scale and solo PVP are 2 completely separate topics. And while I absolutely agree that small scale + solo should be the focus - the gathering change that was made - made it so more gatherers (read = solo) can gather the mats. This is why all the big guilds are complaining and calling gathering "unfun". They used to freefarm in 20+ zones in Mercia/Cumbria - now they actually have to compete with the entire server.

      PS. Its been confirmed that post-Queen next focus would be on Red Zones, FW and small scale + solo.