Resource Return Bonus not adding up correctly?

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    • Those bonuses shown are actually the overall increase to "effectiveness".

      In the crafting window you see the amount of resources returned by a single action.
      In the map view you see the amount of items created by repetitive crafting actions using all the resources that have just been returned.

      Example: 18% Effectiveness

      100 Logs into Planks (to make it easier lets say that 1 log is refined into 1 plank)
      1. Action: use 100 logs -> returns 15 logs, 100 planks crafted
      2. Action: use 15 logs -> returns 2 logs, 15 planks crafted
      3. Action: use 2 logs -> return 1 log (u got lucky), 2 planks crafted
      4. Action: use 1 log -> return 0 logs, 1 plank crafted

      Overall crafted / resources used: 118

      The factors that increase effectiveness are additive: Base City Bonus + Special City Bonus + Focus

      Not a 100% since I am at home right now and can't check but focus should increase effectivenes by 59% and if it was the only bonus thus increase resources returned by 35%.
      So City + Focus would be 18 + 59 = 77 effectiveness.

      I will add a formula to calculate return rate from effectiveness on monday.

      Enjoy your sunday everyone,
      Thorn

      EDIT: Formula to calculate return rate from bonus factors

      Resource Return = (1 - 100/ (100 + sum[all bonuses])) * 100

      Example: City + Focus
      x = (1 - 100 / (100 + [18 + 59])) * 100
      x = 43.5

      So a single crafting action with city bonus and focus should return 43.5% resources.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Thorn-Delwyn: added formula ().

    • Sas3bg wrote:

      you dont have to transport them. New map is damn large and messy

      Only T8 resources are a long way out (and some are only five zones out). T7 and lower can be found within two zones of a realmgate. Can also use the Outposts as a safe waystation for caravans or gathering expeditions.

      Hideouts are extremely expensive to build and upgrade, and thus also represent an enormous risk. A marginal refining bonus (if that) is nothing in comparison, and neither is the risk of losing a gear set. And if you're gathering for silver, how much good can a hideout do? You've still got to get the resources to a royal market one way or another to maximize your profit.

      Right now the threshhold for switching from realmgate-based gameplay to hideout-based gameplay seems higher and higher. :( I was really hoping that hideout-based gameplay would become the new "default", but looks like we're a long way from that.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      Captainrussia wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Hmm. I'm not seeing much advantage to refining resources in a hideout over the royal cities.
      thats with 0 upgrades
      You get more resource return with upgrades?
      No, but location matters. You're able to see the local production bonuses a hideout would have by looking at the local production bonus of the parent cluster. Hideouts are better at crafting than refining.

      We'll be evaluating that interface again in the future, but for now it can be used to see the different bonuses of each cluster. This should hopefully help for deciding hideout placement. :)
    • Roccandil wrote:

      Obelis wrote:

      Hideouts are better at crafting than refining.
      Why is the Outlands so bad at refining compared to the Royals? The crafting bonus makes sense: you should be rewarded for being the Outlands. But the Royals being inherently better at refining has never made sense to me: the Royals are already powerful compared to the Outlands.
      Check the Specific Itens bonus intead of the Generic Bonus.

      The Specific Itens Bonus is higher than Royal Cities no matter the place. But gets better at the center.
    • ImaDoki wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Obelis wrote:

      Hideouts are better at crafting than refining.
      Why is the Outlands so bad at refining compared to the Royals? The crafting bonus makes sense: you should be rewarded for being the Outlands. But the Royals being inherently better at refining has never made sense to me: the Royals are already powerful compared to the Outlands.
      Check the Specific Itens bonus intead of the Generic Bonus.
      The Specific Itens Bonus is higher than Royal Cities no matter the place. But gets better at the center.

      I did: the specific refining bonuses are still worse than Royals, and it's also easy in the Royals to move resources around to get the refining bonus in all cities.

      I think Outlands refining bonuses should be 35% on everything (perhaps with a boost for a specific resource that puts it beyond anything the Royals can do).
    • Roccandil wrote:

      Obelis wrote:

      Hideouts are better at crafting than refining.
      Why is the Outlands so bad at refining compared to the Royals? The crafting bonus makes sense: you should be rewarded for being the Outlands. But the Royals being inherently better at refining has never made sense to me: the Royals are already powerful compared to the Outlands.
      The purpose of all the RRR bonuses is to create incentives to move things around to the place where they are the most valuable. So you don't want the highest refining bonuses literally in the zones where the resources are, By having the refining bonuses highest in the cities and the crafting bonuses highest in the outlands, there is a push and pull loop to drive transportation and activity.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Piddle wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Obelis wrote:

      Hideouts are better at crafting than refining.
      Why is the Outlands so bad at refining compared to the Royals? The crafting bonus makes sense: you should be rewarded for being the Outlands. But the Royals being inherently better at refining has never made sense to me: the Royals are already powerful compared to the Outlands.
      The purpose of all the RRR bonuses is to create incentives to move things around to the place where they are the most valuable. So you don't want the highest refining bonuses literally in the zones where the resources are, By having the refining bonuses highest in the cities and the crafting bonuses highest in the outlands, there is a push and pull loop to drive transportation and activity.

      I'd rather have people living entirely in the Outlands. The power of realmgates needs to be broken.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      ImaDoki wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Obelis wrote:

      Hideouts are better at crafting than refining.
      Why is the Outlands so bad at refining compared to the Royals? The crafting bonus makes sense: you should be rewarded for being the Outlands. But the Royals being inherently better at refining has never made sense to me: the Royals are already powerful compared to the Outlands.
      Check the Specific Itens bonus intead of the Generic Bonus.The Specific Itens Bonus is higher than Royal Cities no matter the place. But gets better at the center.
      I did: the specific refining bonuses are still worse than Royals, and it's also easy in the Royals to move resources around to get the refining bonus in all cities.

      I think Outlands refining bonuses should be 35% on everything (perhaps with a boost for a specific resource that puts it beyond anything the Royals can do).
      Well, I don't agree. You can still live entirely in the outlands, just not min-max'ing stuff.

      Royal refining bonus should always be higher: although it is easier to transport among royal cities, T7-T8 resources are not available for gathering. On the other hand, if u want to max your profits then you should take the risk to move your resources/refined materials back and forth to/from Royals; i.e., it is less risky to refine right where you gather.
      T8 gatherer and bad healer.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by pareto ().

    • pareto wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      ImaDoki wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Obelis wrote:

      Hideouts are better at crafting than refining.
      Why is the Outlands so bad at refining compared to the Royals? The crafting bonus makes sense: you should be rewarded for being the Outlands. But the Royals being inherently better at refining has never made sense to me: the Royals are already powerful compared to the Outlands.
      Check the Specific Itens bonus intead of the Generic Bonus.The Specific Itens Bonus is higher than Royal Cities no matter the place. But gets better at the center.
      I did: the specific refining bonuses are still worse than Royals, and it's also easy in the Royals to move resources around to get the refining bonus in all cities.
      I think Outlands refining bonuses should be 35% on everything (perhaps with a boost for a specific resource that puts it beyond anything the Royals can do).
      Well, I don't agree. You can still live entirely in the outlands, just not min-max'ing stuff.
      Royal refining bonus should always be higher: although it is easier to transport among royal cities, T7-T8 resources are not available for gathering. On the other hand, if u want to max your profits then you should take the risk to move your resources/refined materials back and forth to/from Royals; i.e., it is less risky to refine right where you gather.
      Living in the Royals is OP compared to living in the Outlands. That's broken. Players should be rewarded for moving lock, stock, and barrel into the Outlands, not punished for it.

      (I note that would mitigate zerg-stacking issues, as a happy side-effect.)
    • Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

      Those bonuses shown are actually the overall increase to "effectiveness".

      In the crafting window you see the amount of resources returned by a single action.
      In the map view you see the amount of items created by repetitive crafting actions using all the resources that have just been returned.

      Example: 18% Effectiveness

      100 Logs into Planks (to make it easier lets say that 1 log is refined into 1 plank)
      1. Action: use 100 logs -> returns 15 logs, 100 planks crafted
      2. Action: use 15 logs -> returns 2 logs, 15 planks crafted
      3. Action: use 2 logs -> return 1 log (u got lucky), 2 planks crafted
      4. Action: use 1 log -> return 0 logs, 1 plank crafted

      Overall crafted / resources used: 118

      The factors that increase effectiveness are additive: Base City Bonus + Special City Bonus + Focus

      Not a 100% since I am at home right now and can't check but focus should increase effectivenes by 59% and if it was the only bonus thus increase resources returned by 35%.
      So City + Focus would be 18 + 59 = 77 effectiveness.

      I will add a formula to calculate return rate from effectiveness on monday.

      Enjoy your sunday everyone,
      Thorn

      EDIT: Formula to calculate return rate from bonus factors

      Resource Return = (1 - 100/ (100 + sum[all bonuses])) * 100

      Example: City + Focus
      x = (1 - 100 / (100 + [18 + 59])) * 100
      x = 43.5

      So a single crafting action with city bonus and focus should return 43.5% resources.
      Now now... this is quite helpfull.

      Understanding how the numbers worked gave me a good shed of enlightment.

      Thank you.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      Piddle wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Why is the Outlands so bad at refining compared to the Royals? The crafting bonus makes sense: you should be rewarded for being the Outlands. But the Royals being inherently better at refining has never made sense to me: the Royals are already powerful compared to the Outlands.
      The purpose of all the RRR bonuses is to create incentives to move things around to the place where they are the most valuable. So you don't want the highest refining bonuses literally in the zones where the resources are, By having the refining bonuses highest in the cities and the crafting bonuses highest in the outlands, there is a push and pull loop to drive transportation and activity.
      I'd rather have people living entirely in the Outlands. The power of realmgates needs to be broken.
      None of this is stopping you from doing that. I doubt many people go to the trouble of perfectly maximizing RR, because of all the extra time involved. Losing a few points in refining doesn't force you to ride back to a city and then back to the outlands. It just rewards people who do.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Piddle wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Piddle wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Why is the Outlands so bad at refining compared to the Royals? The crafting bonus makes sense: you should be rewarded for being the Outlands. But the Royals being inherently better at refining has never made sense to me: the Royals are already powerful compared to the Outlands.
      The purpose of all the RRR bonuses is to create incentives to move things around to the place where they are the most valuable. So you don't want the highest refining bonuses literally in the zones where the resources are, By having the refining bonuses highest in the cities and the crafting bonuses highest in the outlands, there is a push and pull loop to drive transportation and activity.
      I'd rather have people living entirely in the Outlands. The power of realmgates needs to be broken.
      None of this is stopping you from doing that. I doubt many people go to the trouble of perfectly maximizing RR, because of all the extra time involved. Losing a few points in refining doesn't force you to ride back to a city and then back to the outlands. It just rewards people who do.

      I can't break you out of your realmgate-centric mindset, but it's poisoning the game. :( Living in the Outlands should provide the best of everything, not the "tutorial" continent.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      Living in the Royals is OP compared to living in the Outlands. That's broken. Players should be rewarded for moving lock, stock, and barrel into the Outlands, not punished for it.
      Players ARE rewarded for moving stuff into the outlands - what are you on?!? Players will get the best sell prices there, best volume of orders, ability to sell highest tier materials and gear (how many risk averse players in the Royals you think will be buying that 7.1 and t8 gear? And how often? A set can last indefinitely in Blue/yellow zone amirite?)
      By moving food and other items - players will be able to secure a spot and feed Hideouts, which would further facilitate living in the Outlands. Which would provide even closer access to all the "best" things in the game = best fame, best item drops, best bonuses (you know about Black Zones silver/fame and loot bonuses right?), best resources, and best PVP content (for massive fights at least)....
      Like... are you even playing Albion?

      Roccandil wrote:

      (I note that would mitigate zerg-stacking issues, as a happy side-effect.)
      Please stop with this made up "zerg-stacking" myth. Zergs not living in the Outlands will die out and fall apart very fast - as they will not be able to capture any content effectively and will not be able to compete with players (zergs) who are actually based out of Hideouts in the Outlands. Its very simple.

      Roccandil wrote:

      I can't break you out of your realmgate-centric mindset, but it's poisoning the game. Living in the Outlands should provide the best of everything, not the "tutorial" continent.
      Its not poisoning the game - its the whole point of the game. Go re-watch every trailer of Albion. Its always about transporting goods from one place to another (for whatever DEV or player created reason - does not matter). Transporting goods is what creates conflict. Holding control of trade routes = creates conflict.

      Not transporting and carebearing it up in a self-sustainable manner - does not really bring any value to the model of Albion (less gear trashing, more stagnant economy, less conflict, more boredom)

      Your fantasy of living "self-sustainably" out of little 0- risk "pods" is not what Albion is about.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Captainrussia ().

    • Roccandil wrote:

      I can't break you out of your realmgate-centric mindset, but it's poisoning the game. :( Living in the Outlands should provide the best of everything, not the "tutorial" continent.
      I don't even accept the premise that the realmgates and royal cities are over powered compared to the outlands. Nothing comes from the cities except farming stuff, and farming stuff is a drop in the bucket relative to the size of the games economy. The outlands on the other hand produce more fame/silver/IV/season points than any other areas in the entire game.

      I think that it is ironic for you to call anyone else realmgate-centric, because the single person most obsessed with them seems to be yourself. No area of the game should offer the best of everything. That's just bad game design.

      Every-time you suggest something, it always sounds exactly the same to me in my head. It's like you are standing in a room full of people, trying to convince the entire crowd that they have been doing it wrong the whole time. That in fact people are supposed to wear their pants on their heads, and their shirts on their legs. And the crowd is giving you a reasonable amount of push back about this idea of yours. They point out, for instance, that pants were designed to be worn on your legs and shirts were not, but you just tell them they are wrong and that they are simply falling into the trap of BIG PANTS Inc. Who want's everyone to wear pants on their legs so that they can sell them pants. To which the crowd then replies, but even with your idea BIG PANTS Inc. is still going to get to sell everyone the same amount of pants anyhow. Wearing them on your head, you still need to buy them. To which you tell them that, they are just being pant-centric, and that wearing your pants on your head grants people 20 extra IQ. And, at the end of it all the crowd doesn't even remember what the point was, and you still just look silly with your pants on your head.

      I am willing to listen to you, and take seriously, your opinion that I should be wearing my pants on my head, and I am open to the idea, but you have to work with me a little here. Because your ideas for why I should be wearing them on my head, usually, sound either insane or based on some other opinion that I find HIGHLY questionable, and if you and I aren't even able to agree about the basic facts of the space time continuum that we are, seemingly, traveling through together, then it is just going to be impossible to communicate with you and I am going to stop trying.
      Discord: Piddle#7413