Guardian Helms Needs Revamp

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    • Guardian Helms Needs Revamp

      This has been discussed in previous threads but I think it needs to have more attention. The curse class completely depends on slow ramp up damage by stacking DoTs and you allowed this helm in game than just instantly makes curse irrelevant. How does it make any sense to allow a defensive that completely removes 10 seconds worth of work stacking DoTs and cause the curse class to start over again? This is beyond a disadvantage in small scale PvP. Defensive's from what I can tell were meant for well timed ability mitigation while the guardian helm is actually a complete easy mode class destroyer. There should be nothing in the game that removes DoTs. Us curse players try to find ways around it but this item basically makes us take fights with one arm tied behind our backs. Please consider removing to the DoT cleanse from the guardian helm. @Retroman
    • It is just relevant for small scale.

      So a non Prio thing, there is more important in ZvZ balancing and 5on5 to fix which is the focus.

      Ironic off..

      Yes I think Guardian Helmet Change was stupid. It not only completely kills curse, it is even a fantastic group heal.. within one minute 2 people heal 50% of their life back up, while fully moving ...

      In fact after nature gots Fu** left and right, guardian helmet on 2 people heals same or even better in full kite as a nature on thorns and another person

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hollywoodi ().

    • Exactly. Having both healing and an ALL DoT removal in one helm ability none the less is insanity. If the Devs insist on having a DoT removal ability in game than it should ONLY be that and not have heal on top of it. Ideally though they just revamp the helm in some other fashion because once again any ability that removes ALL DoTs is just to strong against classes that are built around DoTing.
    • Example of how insanely broken guardian helmet is:

      Curse player properly engages player x with desecrate and follows up with another q vile stack before player x can begin pumping damage back. While applying the next 2 stacks to the max level of 4 the curse has to now pop defensives. Curse finally has 4 stacks and damage starts to ramp. NOPE JUST KIDDING. Player x pushes D removing all that previous curse stack work while also somehow getting healed as well and curse is stuck restarting the stacking process now with no defensives left to survive the lengthy time it takes to restack vile curses.

      This would be like a holy healer healing full from 25% then magically dropping back to 25% again immediately after for unknown reasons.
    • Yes it is that way, but in my eyes that is just one of a ton of things that is broken..

      But it is even better..

      In HG we was 4.1 over, and did face 7.1 great curse..+ holy..

      Just Sprint away, dress both guardian helmet and dance while great curse trys do anything... Then kill them..

      Redicoulos balance..

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hollywoodi ().

    • Tabor wrote:

      Regardless of engage you are still either taking damage or using defensives several seconds prior to getting 4 stacks on your target only to have them immediately removed from some crap helm ability. Any semantics you want to bring up do not solve that fundamental broken problem.
      Cursed beam?

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Just Sprint away, dress both guardian helmet and dance while great curse trys do anything... Then kill them..

      Redicoulos balance..
      yes, 2 guardians can be a problem, but thats kind of true if you bring any 2x of a counter vs a specific set up of solo + 1 healer.
    • Owlsane wrote:

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Anyone using or even evaluating it in PvP says.. I am clueless on PvP, a pure pve player but I try to throw something in..
      Or maybe you found ur ultimate guardian helmet counter with it. Did you try it out before stating it's a PVE guild?
      of course, but happy to explain it for you as a pve player..

      Curse is a dot class, especially one handed.

      Your main damage E depends on the amount of Dot's which are applied by Q

      Maximum is 4 dots, then death curse does Max damage..

      The root, applies a dot, which helps the main damage build up faster..

      On top, just to let you know, in PvP often someone runs away for whatever reason.. sometimes to switch gear..sometimes to escape..

      On top, curse is a kite class.. kite means you move mostly and try avoid damage while you build up dots that damage..

      Now descreate is a root, root means it prevents moving, which adds to kite..

      That's why it is a PvP skill..

      Happy to help
    • I'll restate my question. Did you ACTUALLY try it out in HG or know somebody that tried this on HG?

      Whatever if it's a spell used for PVE the vast majority of the time, it might be a solution against guardian helmet or at least make you not a sitting duck against them...

      EDIT : Imo Cursed beam could be fun to rework as a single target moving channel. To place yourself in a way to keep beaming him etc...

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Owlsane ().

    • Cursed beam could only work if it was a moving channel. Otherwise as is today I am standing still getting pounded while channeling while also prone to get my channel interrupted in some way all while not gaining any DoTs. It is probably true to be a "better" option against guardian helmet but if you plan to win by trying to rotate W beam on CDs you are toast.
    • Hollywoodi wrote:

      @Captainrussia

      Cursed beam..

      Cursed beam is a PVE or at best Mage raid dps skill..

      Anyone using or even evaluating it in PvP says.. I am clueless on PvP, a pure pve player but I try to throw something in..

      Curse W has 2 PvP skills... OW it is desecrate, chest fight vs non Melee or non bo it is desecrate. Cursed beam is at its best HCE..
      Cursed beam is totally useless, armor pierce is much better on pve. Calling it best raid dps skill is too much cause its useless. You need to keep 4 stack on every mob and lower their armor to improve your party dps. Cursed beam need rework but dunno how they ll do it.

      I dont know what they can do with guardian helmet but increase the cd it may help, cause curse doesnt have any other counter. Telling this as a main curse player.
    • Hollywoodi wrote:

      @Captainrussia

      Cursed beam..

      Cursed beam is a PVE or at best Mage raid dps skill..

      Anyone using or even evaluating it in PvP says.. I am clueless on PvP, a pure pve player but I try to throw something in..

      Curse W has 2 PvP skills... OW it is desecrate, chest fight vs non Melee or non bo it is desecrate. Cursed beam is at its best HCE..
      I've tried it successfully vs players using Guardian Helmet.
      Would you settle for dealing a 387(E) + 885(W) = 1272 total Damage on W + E abilities (Beam + 0 stack Death Curse)
      vs only dealing 387 on the Death Curse E (when your DOT based W pretty much gets insta-cleansed, as well as your Q's)???

      I'll take abilities that apply 1272 damage, while not relying on DOT stacks any-day. And btw - 1272 DMG (this is just paper DMG off the Destiny board off my alt with 0 spec, to make the example spec agnostic) is roughly what most W+E abilities deal if combined together, (keep in mind this is a 1h weapon)

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Cursed beam is a PVE or at best Mage raid dps skill..
      Actually there is little point using it in PVE - as the actual full DOT curse build deals more DMG, plus Cursed beam has no AOE (what most PVE skills are good for). Cursed beam only works as a "back up" - for when you actually cannot rely on your DOTs (i.e. - if going against a Guardian Helmet build), and that Armor Piercer on the W is so much better for PVE.

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Curse is a dot class, especially one handed.
      It is. Until its not. Like when you are up vs a Guardian Helmet.

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      Your main damage E depends on the amount of Dot's which are applied by Q

      Maximum is 4 dots, then death curse does Max damage..

      The root, applies a dot, which helps the main damage build up faster..
      Right, except none of this matters vs a Guardian Helmet. So another non-DOT based strategy (damage source) is needed.... hmmm.... what could that be?
      (Another strategy, but this one is a bit more niche: is to bring some kind of silence (there are 2 types: Hellion and Demon) to silence them before they can pop a Guardian, but that actually requires skill and timing. The cursed beam strategy is literally idiot proof - you can just faceroll on your keyboard, as you are no longer relying on DOTs to deal DMG)

      Hollywoodi wrote:

      On top, curse is a kite class.. kite means you move mostly and try avoid damage while you build up dots that damage..
      I disagree that "Curse is primarily a kite class". Sure there is a way to play it as one (pretty much like most other weapons can be played as kite, or not). But you don't have to play it as "kite" only. The old-school Hunter Hood reflect build (before they nerfed Retaliate from 5 sec to 4 sec duration) was all about taking that DMG upfront by facetanking and dealing as much DMG back as you could. And even tanking further with Bloodlust from the Merc jacket. Kiting is a flavor... but it does not work in all of situations - obviously.

      Tabor wrote:

      Cursed beam could only work if it was a moving channel. Otherwise as is today I am standing still getting pounded while channeling while also prone to get my channel interrupted in some way all while not gaining any DoTs. It is probably true to be a "better" option against guardian helmet but if you plan to win by trying to rotate W beam on CDs you are toast.
      Now at least you are starting to think outside the box! Yes, of course if Cursed would be a moving channel it would be great (and a bit OP? 880+ DMG to any mount while chasing it? No thanks, the newbs would ragequit)
      If you have a problem getting "pounded" - punish them for it. Use Retaliate, or silence, or w/e. I mean there are ways, obviously it will not make you a 100% win (which is what most ppl always complaining seem to be looking for - "ability to win vs any counter".... its like.... okay... the point of the counter is to.... COUNTER!)

      Fusionbomb wrote:

      an interrupt-able and stationary channel is not good for any 1vX

      if it was uninterrupt-able, it would be viable
      Well yes and no. You guys asked how to counter or at least not get demolished by Guardian Helmet. I gave you that answer. Now go try it. (yes it works, I guess I'll have to make a guide) You are now having a problem with getting interrupted?!?! Well - shit, thats a whole different issue.

      Short answer - don't get interrupted by someone using a Guardian Helmet? Parry can no longer interrupt you (you can thank me later), so whats the problem? I've heard "Interrupt" (1st sword W) is the most useless skill in the game (its not, Im being sarcastic) - but at least all the fake sword users are not using it. So.... shouldn't be a problem right? As long as you don't run into @Equart - you're Ok using Cursed Beam. Axe has no interrupts... most other weapons have maybe roots, but not interrupts. (obviously some do... so its up to you to figure out a counter if you want to maintain your 100% win ratio)

      PS. Morgana cape speeds up all of your channels (yes - test it). So do the items that have cast time modifier, like Tome of Spells.

      If you have a problem getting "interrupted" while channeling Cursed beam - bring a silence. Demon Helmet can work wonders and actually prevent them from popping their Guardian Helmet in time...

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Captainrussia ().