Remove RNG from seed yield

    • Remove RNG from seed yield

      For me, farming can be frustrating due to seed RNG. Seeing multiple 91% seed yields deliver nothing in a single plot may be minor, but disproportionately annoying. :) Sure, I could use focus, but why? Over time, it will even out, so ultimately the RNG makes focus and thus spec practically useless.

      But carrots have been a lot of fun since their seed yield is deterministic, and I've gotten spec up to 100 as a result. :)

      Here's one way to fix it:

      - Track seed bonuses across each harvest, and stack them. So, a yield bonus of 50% would guarantee a seed every other harvest. At that point, focus and spec become a lot more interesting to me, and I'll be calculating how much I need to water to get all the seeds back, and be excited about each level of spec. :)

      I'd do the same for crop yields, animal offspring, premium bonuses, and gathering bonuses. Deterministic is a lot more fun for me than RNG, and I'm very glad Albion's combat is deterministic, and thus emergent. :)

      That's a huge draw for me, and I'm hoping to see that philosophy applied to more than just combat!
    • huh?

      I have 100 spec in wheat and 75-ish in Corn. Seed yield is fine. Just calculate the % and water accordingly.

      Roccandil wrote:

      RNG makes focus and thus spec practically useless.
      Focus allows you to scale your production much higher. Thats all it does, and works the same way for all other focus related activities (like crafting and refining, even tho those dont have RNG involved, but over 20 fields RNG evens out and plays no role anyway).

      TLDR: RNG can be only an annoyance over 1-2 fields, but over 10+ fields (or 10 harvests off 1 field), RNG evens out (naturally, by its very definition) and you can just calculate it all out to where it does not affect anything.
    • It doesn't matter what type of seed it is, you need to water 50% of your crops if you wish to retain the same number of seeds on average. It can be pumpkins or carrots, doesn't matter... over a long period of time if you water 50% of your crops you will keep the same number of seeds.

      If you want extreme consistency, go with carrots. Ultimately it doesn't really matter what you plant because you can always sell it and buy the type of resource you need. Getting high spec is what is important so you can get the focus watering costs down to 125.
    • Even if RNG is perfectly consistent over time, if I were a game developer I'd want to eliminate RNG, simply for this reason:

      - Given the nature of RNG, there will be bad streaks for many players (and in the case of Albion's farming, especially for those who have few plots to plant on);
      - Given human nature, players will remember the bad streaks more than the good ones.

      That means RNG will tend to be a bad gaming experience for many players, and from a business perspective, I'd want to avoid that. I know that as a player, I've found RNG-based systems to be a background poison that eventually builds until I get tired of it and find a new game.

      At least in the case of Albion, combat is not RNG-based, and that's huge! :) Note that your argument, however, could also apply to RNG-based combat. Over time, it will all even out. Nevertheless, RNG-based combat was one of the key factors in my quitting World of Tanks as well as Wurm Online.

      One reason is that RNG teaches you do the same thing over and over again, hoping to get a better outcome, which means RNG is functional insanity. :) At least in Albion, I know that if I want a better combat outcome, I need to do something different.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      Even if RNG is perfectly consistent over time, if I were a game developer I'd want to eliminate RNG, simply for this reason:

      - Given the nature of RNG, there will be bad streaks for many players (and in the case of Albion's farming, especially for those who have few plots to plant on);
      - Given human nature, players will remember the bad streaks more than the good ones.

      That means RNG will tend to be a bad gaming experience for many players, and from a business perspective, I'd want to avoid that. I know that as a player, I've found RNG-based systems to be a background poison that eventually builds until I get tired of it and find a new game.
      interesting perspective... for some reason 30+ Albion Developers (and an unknown amount of players, count me in as +1) think otherwise...

      Roccandil wrote:

      At least in the case of Albion, combat is not RNG-based, and that's huge! Note that your argument, however, could also apply to RNG-based combat. Over time, it will all even out. Nevertheless, RNG-based combat was one of the key factors in my quitting World of Tanks as well as Wurm Online.
      Putting RNG in a skill based, real time, action oriented, competitive, decision making, reaction-time-based environment (simply put = PVP combat) is definitely not the best idea (even when like 99% of games still do it, including top hits like DOTA and LoL). But there is nothing "realtime decision/skill based" in Albion farming. Its not like you're fighting weeds or something... or have to balance the amounts of water vs fertilizer to keep the appropriate levels of PH. You are simply clicking your mouse button. Its a time sink, thats all. And a bit of excel math - to figure out how many to water to come out at 100% or higher seed yield. The math behind it (which is like 4th, 5th grade level) is all the "skill" farming in AO takes.

      Roccandil wrote:

      One reason is that RNG teaches you do the same thing over and over again, hoping to get a better outcome, which means RNG is functional insanity. At least in Albion, I know that if I want a better combat outcome, I need to do something different.
      Again - see my comments about combat above. The RNG in a static "non real time action dependent" system is just there as a low barrier skill entry. If one cannot do the math to figure out what fraction of the total herbs or animal to nurture - one cannot figure out how to farm effectively. Also RNG provides some kind of "emotional differential action" - simply put, makes very monotonous things (farming) a bit less monotonous. You might get a day when everything procs doubles (kind of like a mini-lottery, especially with more expensive t8 items) or you might get a shitty day when farmables don't proc at all (0 yield) and you lose a little of seed harvest (but of course you already had some extra seeds sitting in the bank just for that bad day - if you did your 4th grade math correctly).
    • Captainrussia wrote:

      interesting perspective... for some reason 30+ Albion Developers (and an unknown amount of players, count me in as +1) think otherwise...

      I'm here to provide -my- feedback, no one else's. :) All the same, I'd be surprised if I were a singleton.

      Captainrussia wrote:

      Putting RNG in a skill based, real time, action oriented, competitive, decision making, reaction-time-based environment (simply put = PVP combat) is definitely not the best idea (even when like 99% of games still do it, including top hits like DOTA and LoL).

      I figure if Albion had RNG-based combat like everyone else, you'd be arguing for it. :)

      Either way, for me RNG poisons games. Mechanics without it I tend to enjoy, mechanics with it I tend to hate. I've also noticed that games without RNG tend to have a quality of deterministic emergence, like chess: a simple ruleset that allows for a wide variety of outcomes.

      I'd like to see that in farming. :)
    • Crane wrote:

      Good thing you aren't a game developer. The RNG is fine and smoothed for consistency.

      If consistency is what counts, then RNG is unnecessary. (I note your argument also applies to RNG-based combat.)

      As it happens, I've coded multiple gameplay prototypes in Unity, including one that copied the mob behavior from the '80s game Super Boulderdash: in which one type of mob follows its left-hand side, and the other follows its right-hand side.

      That's entirely deterministic, but based on player actions and map design, those simple rules could produce an amazing array of emergent complexity. I think of that as deterministic emergence, and I wish game developers used it more often, instead of relying on the crutch of RNG.

      At least Albion's combat has that quality. :)