More grind + New heights + T8 relevance

    • More grind + New heights + T8 relevance

      Problem:

      Why would i use a T8 non artifact weapon if a 6.2 non artifact weapon costs way less and gives the same IP ?
      And what if i want to grind more for more power in my 400/100 gear to be ultra specialized?




      Suggestion: A new level of specialization, TIER SPECIALIZATION.

      Every specialization would open in 5 new specializations (like every fighter open in 4 specializations).

      They would be, using dagger pair as an example:



      Adept Dagger Pair Combat Specialist: Each spec would add +0.3 IP to T4 Dagger pair + 0.1 IP for any dagger pair, totalizing +80 IP to T4 when full specialized in ALL tiers.

      Expert Dagger Pair Combat Specialist: Each spec would add +0.6 IP to T5 Dagger pair + 0.1 IP for any dagger pair, totalizing +110 IP to T5 when full specialized in ALL tiers.

      Master Dagger Pair Combat Specialist: Each spec would add +0.9 IP to T6 Dagger pair + 0.1 IP for any dagger pair, totalizing +140 IP to T6 when full specialized in ALL tiers.

      Grandmaster Dagger Pair Combat Specialist: Each spec would add +1.2 IP to T7 Dagger pair + 0.1 IP for any dagger pair, totalizing +170 IP to T7 when full specialized in ALL tiers.

      Elder Dagger Pair Combat Specialist: Each spec would add +1.5 IP to T8 Dagger pair + 0.1 IP for any dagger pair, totalizing +200 IP to T8 when full specialized in ALL tiers.






      Ammount of Necessary fame for full spec, considering X as the ammount of fame necessary to maximize dagger pair combat specialization:

      Adept: 40% X

      Expert: 80% X

      Master: 120% X

      Grandmaster: 160% X

      Elder: 200%X

      FULL AMMOUNT OF FAME NECESSARY TO MAX ALL OUT: 600% X

      This is such a grind that people WON'T farm all their daggers, for example. Instead, they will just maximize the one they like most.



      Conclusions:

      With the new Outlands, farming looks like it will become 'easier'. Having more grind to do will bring 400/100 people back to the Open World.

      Considering how fast T4 will level (if you only use T4, you should be 100 tier specialized when you get to 40 generic specialization) newbies will become stronger faster, then start focusing on higher tiers.

      EDIT: I suggested here that respec should not be possible here, but i believe this would just be too punishing for some gear. Having respec here will help to burn some silver off the game economy too.





      For those that read this wall of text, thanks for your time ^^

      My suggestions TEND TO BE very detailed, which can be a pain to read, i know.

      See you in my next suggestion :)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by ImaDoki ().

    • MadSkillzDLR wrote:

      Stop trying to turn this into a grind game, not everyone plays this as a full time job.

      This is a game of counters just like a moba, so play it like how it is supposed to be played.
      This game is not that grindy and has a lot of caps...
      But some people, like me, just like to be ultra specialized.
      A lot of players already hit the ceiling and has nothing more to do other than login for ctas.

      The main reasons i suggested this:

      1. Induce people to actually use T7 and T8 in the Open World, which also will move the economy.

      2. Give new reason for 400/100 players to return to the fame farm, which also will move the economy.

      3. Considering the fame ammount necessary per gear, specialization will actually be specialization. Its not "i am good with daggers", its "i am good with claws, and ok with other daggers."

      4. Since IP and fame ammount necessary for T8 will be higher, ganking will become way more interesting. Over the years ganking was severely hit direct and indirectly, the last one being the change to silver sinks in durabilty, which made repairs more expensive on pvp loot.

      5. Fame farming on 4.1 to lower risk will not be that interesting anymore. It will happen, but will end soon due to how fast T4 would 100/100. It will still keep the caracteristic of silver making gear due to how cheap it is.

      6. Since people will start to being higher tier gear to dungeons, new buffs to dungeon difficulty and fame should happen, bringing new content. (Maybe allowing maps to be opened in the same map instead of picking a map 3 maps away?)

      7. It will make an actual difference between T6.2 and T8, for example. At max tier levels, T8 will have 60 more IP than T6.2. Considering T8 is more expensive, there should be this difference.



      However... I understand there is a CON on all of this... And it's balancing. But balancing quakes are good here and there. It's not like there are new skills, just new heights for the same old skills.

      I dont think casual players, like you, will be THAT hit. Most content already have caps, which make the game playable even with 100/100 instead of 400/100.
      Considering the fame ammount i suggeated, you can be 100/100 on combat specialization and 100/100 on T6 tier soecialization on just 1.2x the time you take to be 100/100 on combat specialization.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      I like the fundamental idea of the tier specializations (like gathering), although I'm not sure about the extra limitations.

      I also wonder about game balance: we can scale up maximum item power for everything, but what actual difference will that make (other than making max spec more expensive)?
      Zergs will become more specialized.

      If you consider that, in the next season, zergs will be size limited, it will all come to quality over quantity. There will be a huge difference between a 900/100 (w00t) grovekeeper t8 player against a T4 400/100 or even against a T4 grovekeeper 900/100.

      There really should me more stimulation for people to use T8, in my opinion.
    • Taking in consideration the ammount of fame...

      I would keep respec, but i would reduce the conversion (nowadays its 80%, i'd reduce to 60~70%).

      EDIT: I regret saying this, this should not be respecable. People would just level with faster weapons, then respec. The idea is to use something to perfection.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by ImaDoki ().

    • ImaDoki wrote:

      Taking in consideration the ammount of fame...

      I would keep respec, but i would reduce the conversion (nowadays its 80%, i'd reduce to 60~70%).

      EDIT: I regret saying this, this should not be respecable. People would just level with faster weapons, then respec. The idea is to use something to perfection.

      I hear you, but I feel like Albion does a great job of providing a framework in which each piece of gear can be reconfigured for varying use cases, including faming.

      So, if some gear is "slow" to fame, I'd consider that a problem with the gear's balance, and attempt to correct it on the gear itself, and not by forbidding respec.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      ImaDoki wrote:

      Taking in consideration the ammount of fame...

      I would keep respec, but i would reduce the conversion (nowadays its 80%, i'd reduce to 60~70%).

      EDIT: I regret saying this, this should not be respecable. People would just level with faster weapons, then respec. The idea is to use something to perfection.
      I hear you, but I feel like Albion does a great job of providing a framework in which each piece of gear can be reconfigured for varying use cases, including faming.

      So, if some gear is "slow" to fame, I'd consider that a problem with the gear's balance, and attempt to correct it on the gear itself, and not by forbidding respec.
      The only 'bad' weapons to fame farm, be it in a group or solo, are the dagger line and arcane line.

      Dagger suffers more... arcane can still find place in parties.

      I still think respec is a bad thing. Even with my main weap being dagger.

      Respec just breaks the idea of using higher tier for most benefit.
    • I like this... but I think the fame credits should be removed from the “tier spec”. Meaning max tier spec doesn’t yield fame credits and fame credits can’t be used for tier spec. Yeah it’s grindy but I think that’s ok in this example. Incentivizes playing with high tier equipment. If you apply that to weapons and armor, I see a lot of benefits for both progression and the economy.

      I think that’s what you’re getting at though...

      +1

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Manwe ().

    • Adrivan wrote:

      But if nobody buys T8, doesn't that mean players will start decreasing prices of T8 until they're worth buying?
      I doubt it would be more profitable to salvage T8 items instead of selling them at the same price as 6.2, but correct me if im wrong
      T8 cost is higher than 6.2 cost. Mats are way more expensive. Gathering t8 is riskier, they are rarer and transmutation is way more expensive too.
    • ImaDoki wrote:

      Adrivan wrote:

      But if nobody buys T8, doesn't that mean players will start decreasing prices of T8 until they're worth buying?
      I doubt it would be more profitable to salvage T8 items instead of selling them at the same price as 6.2, but correct me if im wrong
      T8 cost is higher than 6.2 cost. Mats are way more expensive. Gathering t8 is riskier, they are rarer and transmutation is way more expensive too.
      Ye but all that is useless if nobody buys it. So the prices should gradually be lower and lower untill T8 is at a price worth buying. If its really not worth it at all, then there should be no T8 weapons on the market, but there are.
    • Adrivan wrote:

      ImaDoki wrote:

      Adrivan wrote:

      But if nobody buys T8, doesn't that mean players will start decreasing prices of T8 until they're worth buying?
      I doubt it would be more profitable to salvage T8 items instead of selling them at the same price as 6.2, but correct me if im wrong
      T8 cost is higher than 6.2 cost. Mats are way more expensive. Gathering t8 is riskier, they are rarer and transmutation is way more expensive too.
      Ye but all that is useless if nobody buys it. So the prices should gradually be lower and lower untill T8 is at a price worth buying. If its really not worth it at all, then there should be no T8 weapons on the market, but there are.
      T8 is basically used for Cumbria/Mercia gvgs, as they can afford more expensive Item Power / Silver.

      T8 is just not worth it for most players.

      I craft T8 myself, in hope i can get a Masterpiece, but most of those weapons takes more than 2 weeks to sell, if they ever sell.

      And i'm talking just about 8.0, a very common used weapon, bloodletter.

      Can't even imagine how hard it is to sell 8.1+.


      As a comparative price, fort sterling planks:

      Making planks 6.2: You need 4 6.2 log + 1 5.2 plank

      6.2 log price:1490
      5.2 plank: 6000

      6.2 Plank price considering 50% return rate: (6000+4*1490)/2 = 3000+2*1490 = 5980

      The actual sell price is 7878 in market.


      T8 plank needs 5 T8 logs + 1 T7 plank.

      T8 log price: 6280
      T7 plank price: 6620

      Considering the same 50%: (6620+5*6280)/2 = 3310+5*3140 = 3310 + 15700 = 19010

      Actual sell price: 20000

      Its basically 3x the price, for the same effect.




      IF i use transmutation, the smallest price, without considering small tax ammounts for transmutation, would be

      T6 log: 600
      T7 log transmut + 1200
      T8 log transmut + 5000

      This means the highest price T8 log can be is 600+1200+5000 = 6800.



      The price won't fall a lot more, since THERE ARE whales out there crafting T8 for excelent + masterpiece to upgrade with rune/souls to 8.1/8.2 for some high end gvgs advantage.


      Those T8 that doesn't have a place are salvaged to craft new ones, to get higher quality.

      There is just no 'common' market for T8, since the advantage they give to the Open World is the same as lower tiered gear, which is WAY cheaper.




      The difference i'm pointing here is basically 60 IP between 6.2 to 8.0 for basically triple price, should my suggestion come into game.

      It will STILL not be that worth it, but at least there is a difference.
    • Defenetly t8 should give some advantage over t6.2.
      The idea above is good until you imagine you have grinded in one year or more Damnation to 700 spec and they nerf it or change it.
      Also variety of played weapons will greatly decrease with this idea. With 400/400 you can play 6.

      Is it possible to just change how item enchants scale.
      t6 item is 900ip, t8 is 1060, t6.2 is 1060ip.
      Change the enchant to 50% of current ip bonus?
      T6.2 will be equal to t7 and not to t8.
    • BBBoca wrote:

      Defenetly t8 should give some advantage over t6.2.
      The idea above is good until you imagine you have grinded in one year or more Damnation to 700 spec and they nerf it or change it.
      Also variety of played weapons will greatly decrease with this idea. With 400/400 you can play 6.

      Is it possible to just change how item enchants scale.
      t6 item is 900ip, t8 is 1060, t6.2 is 1060ip.
      Change the enchant to 50% of current ip bonus?
      T6.2 will be equal to t7 and not to t8.
      People would still use a variety of weapons, but would specialize on the "most useful" or "preferred one".

      This game should really be about "specialization", but most people already have multiples 400/100.

      There is so much IP capped content this won't be an issue for a lot of stuff, but for people like me that want more stuff to do, having new heighs to aim for will be good.

      With the new limited zvz size content coming, quality over quantity will be a thing. Having specialized people in the zerg will be useful, due to higher IP and experience.