Alliance Point Sharing

    • While I think this is a good start for nerfing mega alliances, I think it should be noted that there will also be some collateral damage. The guild that I am part of has been silver for the last few seasons, but we are part of an alliance that is far more casual with a lot of smaller guilds. While that may be one specific situation, I'm confident that our guild is not the only one like this. What this means is that our guild and a number of others are also being hit really hard by this nerf, even though we are only a silver ranked guild. I like the theory of this and how the devs are going about trying to nerf the mega alliances, it just sucks that smaller guilds that are part of casual alliances are getting hit just as hard by it. It would definitely take some creativity, but it would be really cool if the devs found a way to take that into consideration so that it wasn't nerfing smaller guilds in casual alliances by collateral damage.
    • this shuld be rely depend on number of mebers in guild and % shares to others guild in aliance this sytem so far i see it hurting aliances whit smal guilds favor big guild in aliances whit 3 or 4 guilds in it and sharing shuld be optional so i can block sharing me points but dont recive eny from others rely dont like this ide you just wone remove big super aliances but hurt smal aliances whit smal guild in it that not ok sharing shuld be optional
    • From my point of view, no one is going to be hurt that much except main guilds that were using their alliances to get to the top of Seasonal Ranking. Well, it might be still possible if all smaller guilds would merge with each other, so that they'll reduce 3/4 smaller guilds into one and somehow use it in their favor, which probably won't really happen.
      Albion Online is still a sandbox game, where everyone can make their own path and set a goal that they feel like doing. That's why I believe it would be still possible to create casual alliances with greater number of guilds that don't really care about the ranking(utopian, right?), but actually care about their own territories so they can do whatever casual guilds do in Outlands and would need terries for(gathering or smth). Remember that probably most casual guilds were paying some ammount of silver for being a part of super alliance. Silver is still approved.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by DivTV ().

    • DivTV wrote:

      From my point of view, no one is going to be hurt that much except main guilds that were using their alliances to get to the top of Seasonal Ranking. Well, it might be still possible if all smaller guilds would merge with each other, so that they'll reduce 3/4 smaller guilds into one and somehow use it in their favor, which probably won't really happen.
      Albion Online is still a sandbox game, where everyone can make their own path and set a goal that they feel like doing. That's why I believe it would be still possible to create casual alliances with greater number of guilds that don't really care about the ranking(utopian, right?), but actually care about their own territories so they can do whatever casual guilds do in Outlands and would need terries for(gathering or smth). Remember that probably most casual guilds were paying some ammount of silver for being a part of super alliance. Silver is still approved.
      The example of my guild/alliance. BAM has 60+ guilds (for now). Invis is one of like 4 guilds that have reached silver in previous seasons. We don't use alliance to get points at all; we mage raid the whole way up. The only time alliance has come in to play with that is them coming along "for defence" (ZvZ content) on rare occasion. What we get from our alliance is the community. Almost none of the guilds in our alliance care about ranking and have no desire to be part of a mega alliance that owns huge parts of the outlands. We've taken territories on reset day, but tend to not hold them for long at all. We try to be as libertarian as possible and not require anything (silver or otherwise) of anyone as an alliance, so saying that these smaller guilds should still be holding territories when we do have bigger alliances around us that do care about owning the black is in err.
      Tl;Dr: yes, it's a nerf to bigger alliances with a few casual guilds, but this is absolutely a nerf to lower ranked guilds in casual alliances that don't care about ranking.
    • Atena26 wrote:

      this shuld be rely depend on number of mebers in guild and % shares to others guild in aliance this sytem so far i see it hurting aliances whit smal guilds favor big guild in aliances whit 3 or 4 guilds in it and sharing shuld be optional so i can block sharing me points but dont recive eny from others rely dont like this ide you just wone remove big super aliances but hurt smal aliances whit smal guild in it that not ok sharing shuld be optional
      part of me says I LOVE the idea of having weighted shares based on guild size, but the obvious exploit would be one guild being power leveled by doing at 300 with inactive alts. As far as turning off sharing, The hard part then is that the mega alliances would then have the option of opting out of this nerf. Good thoughts, but I don't see them working in practice.
    • MidniteFrostbite wrote:

      While I think this is a good start for nerfing mega alliances, I think it should be noted that there will also be some collateral damage. The guild that I am part of has been silver for the last few seasons, but we are part of an alliance that is far more casual with a lot of smaller guilds. While that may be one specific situation, I'm confident that our guild is not the only one like this. What this means is that our guild and a number of others are also being hit really hard by this nerf, even though we are only a silver ranked guild. I like the theory of this and how the devs are going about trying to nerf the mega alliances, it just sucks that smaller guilds that are part of casual alliances are getting hit just as hard by it. It would definitely take some creativity, but it would be really cool if the devs found a way to take that into consideration so that it wasn't nerfing smaller guilds in casual alliances by collateral damage.

      I expect to see a tendency for veteran players to coalesce into dominant alliances, excluding newer players from season participation. The current system isn't perfect, but it does allow newer players to jump right in.

      Simply from the perspective of testing, however, maybe it's a good idea to try out the change, while keeping the above in mind.
    • The real issue with higher % going to the alliance, means alliances with a bunch of smaller guild will stop existing as the penalty is too large unless those guilds combine into larger guilds.

      Heck even at this level I can see some alliances not getting smaller player count, but the sub guilds combining to make larger guilds with a lower "guild" count in the alliance. Probably something that will be tweaked a bit later.
    • Retroman wrote:

      ALL Season Points generated are now partially also shared with all alliance members. (this also includes Guild Challenge, etc.)
      @Retroman maybe you think again in especially the guild challenge, because imo there is a too high risk to abuse this mechanic.

      Atm with the guild challenge there is a way to get seasonpoints without interacting with other guilds, with the problem that it would be harder every time you reached a new level (lvl1 300 seasonpoints vs 100,000 keys; lvl 50 300 seasonpoints vs 5,000,000 keys) thats a good system i think. but look at it combined with your new system:

      1. I level my guild (below called mainguild) to guildchallenge lvl 4 (1,200 seasonpoints with 1,000,000 keys)
      2. now i make my own alliance with that guild (im solo in that alliance)
      3. all players deposit their alts in that guild to get seasonrewards

      4. with all mains, we create a new guild and join alliance.
      5. i level new guild to level 1 in guildchallenge (75 seasonpoints to mainguild, 225 seasonpoints to new guild for 100,000 keys)
      6. leave alliance with new guild, and

      and now repeat step 4-6 in endless (there is no problem with 7 days alliancehopping penalty cause its always a new guild that is hopping and there is no minimum of time they have to stay). i can get 75 seasonpoints for my mainguild for every 100,000 keys we can get as guild!!!
      if we get problems with 2 days guildhopping lock, we can create more guilds simultaneosly and join alliance just a minute before reaching first level up, so single guilds level slower but the result of points is the same.

      In sum i can reach crystal rank with only 239,400,000 keys thats round about the same like now theoretically guild level 69 (which would be 20,700 instead of 180,000 seasonpoints if you do it fair like now)

      and the funny thing in this way i can get crystalrank without enter one time a full loot PvP-zone (like it would be if i do crystalfights, castlefights, mage raiding, GvG, etc. the normal things to get seasonpoints)

      so pls think again in sharing guildchallenge points with alliance because of the specific way the guild challenge scales


      EDIT:

      Retroman wrote:

      Guilds aiming for the top spots in a season had a very big advantage if they were trying to get as many alliance members as possible. [...] The intention is to make Season Rankings more about the contribution of individual guilds, instead about alliances which funnel all their resources to push a few select guilds.

      A new Idea: look at some mega alliances it seems to be not a huge problem to get thousands of players to support one guild...so how would this feature be if 10,000 players want to support a guild in this way? Because of the permanently creating of little guilds we don't have any problem with the max of 300 players per guild...so 10,000 players that supports a guild in the way above can win a season easily and no one can fight against, because they have no Territory to conquer, no mages to raid, no castle you can fight, they are unattackable because they only do PvE Content (and can do it whereever they want, even in blue and yellow zones) and can win a season? TBH thats not the Albion i wanna see.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Flohhopf ().

    • Flohhopf wrote:

      @Retroman maybe you think again in especially the guild challenge, because imo there is a too high risk to abuse this mechanic.

      Atm with the guild challenge there is a way to get seasonpoints without interacting with other guilds, with the problem that it would be harder every time you reached a new level (lvl1 300 seasonpoints vs 100,000 keys; lvl 50 300 seasonpoints vs 5,000,000 keys) thats a good system i think. but look at it combined with your new system:

      1. I level my guild (below called mainguild) to guildchallenge lvl 4 (1,200 seasonpoints with 1,000,000 keys)
      2. now i make my own alliance with that guild (im solo in that alliance)
      3. all players deposit their alts in that guild to get seasonrewards

      4. with all mains, we create a new guild and join alliance.
      5. i level new guild to level 1 in guildchallenge (75 seasonpoints to mainguild, 225 seasonpoints to new guild for 100,000 keys)
      6. leave alliance with new guild, and

      and now repeat step 4-6 in endless (there is no problem with 7 days alliancehopping penalty cause its always a new guild that is hopping and there is no minimum of time they have to stay). i can get 75 seasonpoints for my mainguild for every 100,000 keys we can get as guild!!!
      if we get problems with 2 days guildhopping lock, we can create more guilds simultaneosly and join alliance just a minute before reaching first level up, so single guilds level slower but the result of points is the same.

      In sum i can reach crystal rank with only 239,400,000 keys thats round about the same like now theoretically guild level 69 (which would be 20,700 instead of 180,000 seasonpoints if you do it fair like now)

      and the funny thing in this way i can get crystalrank without enter one time a full loot PvP-zone (like it would be if i do crystalfights, castlefights, mage raiding, GvG, etc. the normal things to get seasonpoints)

      so pls think again in sharing guildchallenge points with alliance because of the specific way the guild challenge scales
      Fuck yes.
      @Retroman revisit guild challenge abuse please. It is REAL.
      WTB skill
    • Flohhopf wrote:

      Retroman wrote:

      ALL Season Points generated are now partially also shared with all alliance members. (this also includes Guild Challenge, etc.)
      @Retroman maybe you think again in especially the guild challenge, because imo there is a too high risk to abuse this mechanic.
      Atm with the guild challenge there is a way to get seasonpoints without interacting with other guilds, with the problem that it would be harder every time you reached a new level (lvl1 300 seasonpoints vs 100,000 keys; lvl 50 300 seasonpoints vs 5,000,000 keys) thats a good system i think. but look at it combined with your new system:

      1. I level my guild (below called mainguild) to guildchallenge lvl 4 (1,200 seasonpoints with 1,000,000 keys)
      2. now i make my own alliance with that guild (im solo in that alliance)
      3. all players deposit their alts in that guild to get seasonrewards

      4. with all mains, we create a new guild and join alliance.
      5. i level new guild to level 1 in guildchallenge (75 seasonpoints to mainguild, 225 seasonpoints to new guild for 100,000 keys)
      6. leave alliance with new guild, and

      and now repeat step 4-6 in endless (there is no problem with 7 days alliancehopping penalty cause its always a new guild that is hopping and there is no minimum of time they have to stay). i can get 75 seasonpoints for my mainguild for every 100,000 keys we can get as guild!!!
      if we get problems with 2 days guildhopping lock, we can create more guilds simultaneosly and join alliance just a minute before reaching first level up, so single guilds level slower but the result of points is the same.

      In sum i can reach crystal rank with only 239,400,000 keys thats round about the same like now theoretically guild level 69 (which would be 20,700 instead of 180,000 seasonpoints if you do it fair like now)

      and the funny thing in this way i can get crystalrank without enter one time a full loot PvP-zone (like it would be if i do crystalfights, castlefights, mage raiding, GvG, etc. the normal things to get seasonpoints)

      so pls think again in sharing guildchallenge points with alliance because of the specific way the guild challenge scales
      Good Point. :thumbup:

      We will change it so the Season Points generated via the Guild Challenge are excluded from the Alliance Sharing.

      Cheers,
      Retro
    • I think 50% is still too much, if we cut the points that June and Money Guild have in season 6 in half they will still be in the top. I think 25% is good enough.



      Btw, this change may not kill mega alliances but will surely make them weaker, guilds that try to get crystal, gold and silver in alliances that is not really trying to get points in the season will probably leave the alliance and make one with others competitive guilds.



      But the smaller guilds that will not be too competitive about the season will probably make mega alliances in order to keep playing, so we will probably have smaller alliances with competitive guilds and mega alliances with casual guilds, I think is still necessary to limit alliance members or we will keep having alliances with 4000-10000 people....
    • Retroman wrote:

      Good Point.

      We will change it so the Season Points generated via the Guild Challenge are excluded from the Alliance Sharing.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      The way to do it is implement the alliance penalty of 50% challenge points goes to your guild, but then the other 50% gets divided for point sharing. Then instead of sharing the points with the other guilds in the alliance, only the original guild gets the extra share to prevent the exploit.

      Guild A Earns 100 challange points.
      Alliance size is 2.

      Guild A Gets 50 points + 25 points. Guild B gets 0 points. The remaining 25 points just become a point sink.

      Thus Guild A only achieved 75 out of the 100 points because they were in an alliance but it also prevented the exploit.
    • DoomRawrus wrote:

      Retroman wrote:

      Good Point.

      We will change it so the Season Points generated via the Guild Challenge are excluded from the Alliance Sharing.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      The way to do it is implement the alliance penalty of 50% challenge points goes to your guild, but then the other 50% gets divided for point sharing. Then instead of sharing the points with the other guilds in the alliance, only the original guild gets the extra share to prevent the exploit.
      Guild A Earns 100 challange points.
      Alliance size is 2.

      Guild A Gets 50 points + 25 points. Guild B gets 0 points. The remaining 25 points just become a point sink.

      Thus Guild A only achieved 75 out of the 100 points because they were in an alliance but it also prevented the exploit.
      Well then we aren't doing point sharing are we....were just penalizing people for being in an alliance period. I think the guild challenge points should just stay with the guild...it is called a "guild challenge." I can understand all other points being shared where zvz type activities are concerned because zvz is usually an alliance based activity.
      OneOfUsIsInvis: a NA PST Guild is recruiting: discord.gg/UCpTbfX
    • Perso 50% alliance 50% guilde sa m'a l'air top comme sa tu ne prend que 1 guilde dans ton alliance voir même 0 comme la maj de la prochaine saison arrive soon les Zergs vont être Nerf de ouf
      ce qui permettra de valorisé les gens avec des grosse spécialisation et sans risque de crash à chaque Engage dans les 2 camps vu que Albion Online n'est pas réputé pour tenir des 100vs100 donc en soit sa fera en sorte que les grosse alliance qui sont Blue Army et OOPS et DADDY vont grevé et que seul l'élite d'entre eux suivra ce qui en soit n'est pas + mal car de mon point de vu une guilde doit non seulement avoir monde mais aussi des optimisations que sa soit en Craft/farm/PvP/PvE Afin de garantir une économie saine et de s’agrandir sans pour autant avoir que du PvP ou que du PvE ou que du craft le TOP Ladder c'est énormément de Tryardeur de la bêta qui ne font que du PvP avec une maj comme celle qui arrive sa va changer les grosse alliance à devoir perdre des membres voir même leurs alliance ou du moins a réduire leurs objectif et de prendre que des Tryardeur de toutes origines afin de up même pendant la nuit et la journée chez les NA et EU et Asie ...
      CE qui va permettre sur ce jeu de redonner le point de vu des FR dans le jeu aux autres guildes NA et Asie afin d’être mieu vu .
    • At least it's something against mega alliances, but it's not a complete solution. It only solves the predominance of some top guilds in the season rankings thanks to very large alliances (which are 3 or 4 guilds at most).

      Every elite guild is left alone or in small alliances of 2 or 3 similar guilds, and the rest of casual guilds, if they don't care about rank they will remain the same since reaching silver is very easy.


      Sbi must be more ambitious, make changes thinking of 1000 players is neither good nor will it keep the server. Most Ablion players do not care about anything that June has won the season, They care that there are maps on which potentially 6000-9000 + players have the advantage of having a territory

      The global solution comes limiting guild numbers in an alliances (3-4-5), in the same way that guilds are limited too. Or would someone like to see guilds of 2000 or 5000 players? That is what we have seen so far but with alliances