​Auto Difficulty Scaling Single Player PVE/PVP Dungeons

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    • ​Auto Difficulty Scaling Single Player PVE/PVP Dungeons

      Auto Scaling Single Player Dungeons - single player dungeons with endless difficulty/reward scaling, and entrance limits (to avoid blobbing)

      Why?

      I want harder solo/duo PVE content! More like Diablo scaling, or Warframe.

      The current single-players dungeons are too brain-dead easy... After just a couple days playing Albion, I can use T4 frost or bow gear to obliterate and speed farm the T4 dungeons.. so I went to the Outlands, thinking surely I'd find some really hard and lucrative single player dungeons because of the risk of going there, and they were just the same boring garbage with the same lame rewards.

      I'd like "heroic" single player dungeons where damage goes up by 70% each tier, but health only goes up 5-10%.. so it's still efficient to solo them if you are skilled, but if you screw up and get hit by abilities, you get killed really easily. Obviously these should have dramatically better rewards. This is not supposed to be a gear check, it's supposed to be a skill check.

      The more of these dungeons are completed in a zone, the more the next spawns should be scaled up.. so if players are tackling the 8x dungeons, the next round should be 10x, and if they tackle the 10x, they should get 14x, and on and on. Forever.. until the remaining dungeons are so hard that nobody can do them.. and then when they despawn the level can slowly slide back down. At some hardness level, players will need to bring in multiple sets of gear, to "use the right tool for the job", in a Monster Hunter style of gameplay.

      These dungeons should not be linear. They need multiple paths, like the static multi-player dungeon entrances (and hellgates, and diablo dungeons), so they have more opportunity for maneuvering in emergent PvP. Even better is if they are randomly generated with mulitiple loops and paths.. more like DIablo and Warframe random dungeons.

      These dungeon entrances should be limited to only 1-3 players entering every 4-8 minutes.. to discourage both group farming and blob PvP ganking.. The idea is that you and a buddy can go in, and someone can find an entrance timer and know someone is in there and hang around to jump in and try to gank you.. but they can't bring in 7 of their friends. (if you go in and out and in, you don't count twice, so you can't lock the entrance as a solo player)

      When you complete one of these dungeons, and port out, you should appear in a random place of the zone the dungeon is in.. to avoid people camping solo players on exit.

      These dungeons should be very rare (purple?) spawns in T4 zones, fairly common in red zones, and 80%-100%+ of dungeons in the Outlands.

      The goal of this is not to get people lost in PVE content.. but to create a better incentive for people to be out in risky areas doing this hard PVE content, carrying extra gear to surmount the content, and thinking strategically about how to deal with PvP when it occurs.. A smart solo PvP player has to be very careful about taking PvP engages.. and just engaging someone out in the open in the outlands is not generally a good approach.

      Alternatively, these could be a different form of hellgate (1v1, 2v2, 3v3)... like a "hellgate dungeon" where it's more 60% PVE and 40% PVP, instead of hellgates, which are 90% PvP and 10% PVE.. but I think it would be better if they were open world

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Kurobon ().

    • ...but in an open-world game, what is the "party size"? You can just ungroup and enter individually, over the course of a few minutes. what is the dungeon scale then?

      My idea solves this problem.. because you can run around as a small team, and look at the dungeon scaling, and decide which ones you want to go into based on the scaling. If the zone has scaled up too much, you go to a different zone. If it's not scaled up enough, you chain run dungeons to scale it up.

      ------

      @xcruciful -


      I want to be clear... I want HARDER SOLO/DUO PVE CONTENT (with a chance of PvP)... for the fun and challenging gameplay. I don't give a crap about the rewards.

      I've tried solo dungeons in T5/T6 in the outlands and the mobs were easy and the loot was trash. The rewards didn't compensate for the lack of faction bouns, and the mobs were just as mind-numbingly easy. I didn't bother trying T7 zones.. but I can try it. I suspect those mobs will be easy too.

      Going to a higher tier black zone solo/duo to do mindlessly easy things like clicking a rock or aoeing easy dungeon mobs with a chance of being blobbed by 12 people and forced to try to escape is not my idea of engaging gameplay.

      I want to fight much harder PVE content..... as an expression of skill and talent.. and I want to do it in the exciting unpredictable context of a PvP open world.

      As for Blue dungeons solo/duo.. If I clear trash that would be mind-numbingly slow, and if I don't, that will be 90% running, and 10% fun boss fights. No thanks. Remember, I'm trying to find more *FUN*, not more loot.

      I'm not opposed to giving up on PVE in this game and just going PVP... for me that means Hellgates. We've been doing 2v2 training hellgates, and I'm looking forward to doing the real ones.. but so far the mindless queue grind of going back in over and over is not that amazing. I'd prefer to be doing hard PVE content with a chance of PvP. Also, hellgates would be much better if at the end you spawned in a random place in the zone, instead of predictably at the hellgate spawn where you can be gibbed by a blob.

      The post was edited 18 times, last by Kurobon ().

    • Here is another related idea..

      What about having matchmade "multi" single-player PvE / PvP dungeons?

      They would work like a hellgate. However, instead of a single room, it would be 3-5 single player dungeons, that all started from different points, but which branch and cross-over on a single map. When you come to a fork in the road, you never know which path is empty, and which path is taking you right into an enemy player clearing from the other end of that path.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Kurobon ().

    • Kurobon wrote:

      ...but in an open-world game, what is the "party size"? You can just ungroup and enter individually, over the course of a few minutes. what is the dungeon scale then?

      I'd scale mob difficulty and reward according to the number of players engaged. Basically, every engaged player in the killing party would be guaranteed a certain amount of fame and loot (chance), regardless of how many were there.

      So, that kind of dungeon could be soloed or zerged, and divers wouldn't know how many were inside (shifts more risk onto the divers).
    • @xcruciful - Last night I went with two friends and grinded some Outlands T7 single player dungeons. They were all brain-dead easy, and we were in cheap-ass T4.1/T5 gear, with 1.7M/1M/400k fame. Nothing special.

      Now of course having two friends made them easier.. I could see how doing them as a single player represented a bit of a gear-check, because mobs had a bunch more health.... but more than half of the bosses were green and blue chest bosses that were brain dead easy, and had basically no loot. Getting occasionally hit by mob and boss abilities was really no big deal. The trash and easy bosses didn't feel any "harder" than T5 dungeons, they were just about 30% slower to kill. The purple bosses were a bit harder, and we opted to do them with one of us healing.. some of them would be hard to solo at our gear/fame level, but with any duo that included a healer they were brain dead easy.

      I want hard unforgiving solo/duo dungeons where enemies do much more damage, so they insta-pop you when you make mistakes, and they are hard even if you have a duo and a healer, and even if you have T6/T7 gear.. where the only way to beat them is to be an actually skilled player., and use the right gear/spec for the right mobs.. Not easy dungeons where you can just grind away in any spec of the game.

      These easy mode dungeons are just like mining rocks. Braindead boring.

      Also, on our test runs, the T7 single player dungeon fame gain was really high, and we got tons of fame books, but the overall loot and earnings was no better than factioned T6, and maybe worse. Of course there is lots of randomness in loot, so we'd have to do many more runs to really compare fairly.

      I'm not particularly interested in hard content scaled for big groups, because big groups are big pain for social/schedule reasons. I've raided hardcore WoW before, and 80% social challenges and 20% playing the game. Also, it's very unforgiving in how it "locks" you to your computer during events. I prefer solo/duo/trio activities, where if someone has to afk or bail because of stuff IRL, it's no big deal.

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Kurobon ().

    • Devs make solo dungeons having in mind there can happen a lot of PVP content.
      Having hordcore mobs can affect pvp...like having people knocked down...and other come and just free looting them.

      Having a more levels in solo mean that will be a higher chance to get doved.

      I like your idea, but i think that can work better for city expedition.
    • @xcruciful - I spent ~5 hours solo farming T5/T6/T7 solo dungeons in the black zone over the last few days... in my junk T4.1 gear. Over time I did get some better rewards, and the T7 purple/golden bosses are a bit tricky... but overall it was all too brain dead easy for me.. and this is in junk gear.

      I do have to reset / retry some harder bosses a few times. But there was no boss I couldn't do solo. My award for my favorite boss fight is the Morgana Tormentor.. because if I make one mistake and get hit by one skill, I have to reset it. Though spending 20 seconds resetting it to try again with no durability loss is not exactly my idea of hardcore.

      The only thing "interesting" about it is the open world PvP threat... which I really love, but I wish there was some actually harder solo PVE content as well.

      The build I'm using is:

      T4.1 Bow (Deadly Shot, Explosive Arrows, Energetic)
      T4.1 Cape
      T4.1 Stalker Hood (Mortal Agony / Swiftness)
      T4.1 Assasin Jacket (Ambush / Swiftness)
      T4.1 Stalker Shoes (Raging Blink / Swiftness)
      T4.1 Bag
      T4 Horse

      T1 Carrot Soup (for trash sustain)
      T4.Poison (for a dps boost on tough bosses)

      I basically DPS and dodge abilities until the boss gets low.. then I hold everything and wait for the enrage.. When the enrage happens, I pop everything, especially mortal agony on them, and burn them down. GG EZ.

      I started doing this around 2M fame, but as far as I can see, one only needs Bow lvl 6 for Energetic, and the appropriate Reaver level. The other level and specialization bonuses are nice but small and not necessary. I'm going to try to speed run a new character and see just how quickly (and few skillpoints) I can do T7.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Kurobon ().

    • New

      I have not tried 8.1, 8.2, 8.3 dungeons.... I'm looking forward to them... i'm still understanding how to spawn them, and building a bankroll so I can wear some better gear if I need to when I play them. I will report back when I have.

      A couple of the T7.3 bosses do provide a little challenge (notably morgana tormentor, and the mordekaiser dude that just keeps smacking me with his hammer)-- as in I have to try 3-5 times to kill them....

      Ironically, one of the harder challenges is server lag. When it gets bad, it's awful. And even when it's not, it sometimes requires more prediction than would otherwise be necessary. I don't lag in other games, and I have rockstar internet (outside San Francisco in Cali), and I run a router with FQ_Codel to kill bufferbloat, so it's clearly Albion server / network issues.

      The trouble is, I'm in crap T4.1 gear and low skills. I'm pretty sure I could do everything up to T7.2 with 2-4 hours on an account, my T4.1 bow build, and weapon energetic. Will T8 provide some challenge? Maybe. But enough challenge to make this game last? Doubtful. But I really want it to, because the black zone danger is absolutely awesome.

      While in a solo T6 yesterday, I was able to counter-gank a pvp ganker yesterday (my first AO PK!), and THAT was damn tricky and satisfying. Especially because I was in junk T4.1/2 econo-pve gear, and he was in full T6.1 pvp spec plus giants potion. I used strategy with the dungeon mobs and knockdowns, and I got a little lucky. - albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/53047080

      That experience was the most psychologically exciting gaming experience I've ever had. I could feel my heart pounding and the huge amp of adrenalin afterwords. I felt like a boss surviving, killing him, and then sticking around to finish the instance. And I knew it would be like this, because I've experienced this feeling in EVE Online as well. It is *THAT* excitement that I'm looking for..

      I can go play other games and be challenged with single player content.. but it won't have this amazing world context, guilds, MMO, GvG, and also the constant threat of being found and attacked, and the chance to counter attack. THat's why I find Albion so amazing.. and why I'm hoping by the time I have T8.3 on snoozer farm, there is some harder solo content somewhere.. if not I'll just be trying to figure out how to solo group content I guess.

      -----

      As I've said, I'm not looking for more gear checks... I'm looking for heroic mode dungeons that are structurally different and more difficult skill challenges.. things like:

      * resetting / respawning trash packs unless you finish them completely.. so you can't just kill one and reset
      * bosses that will not leash/reset until you are dead
      * trash and bosses that can't just be snooze-farmed in a single gear spec... forcing the player to bring a few different tools for the job... or even to head to a nearby camp to grab some gear to finish some boss

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Kurobon ().

    • New

      I have not yet tried to spawn a T8 solo, because I've been running into some fun pvp camps trying to get to T7 zones... I started out using one of the "costal" blackzone portal tiles, because it seemed less populated and contested, but with only 2 doors on that tile, when it gets active both doors get camped. At least I'm getting some fun practice trying to solo-run door camps and get away alive. :)

      I've done some research on HCE and Solo dungeon maps.. and I really prefer the dungeon map system... because I prefer that it's world spawned, which opens up the excitement and tension created because of the possibility of ganks (inside or on the way home), and because it offers the possibility of running out to refit if a very hard boss requires a different set of gear than you happened to bring.

      However, I wish there were hardcore solo dungeons which would force boss fights to be solo-only (such as bosses banishing or ejecting all but one player during the boss fight).. Otherwise people just do them in groups and accept a reduced but guaranteed reward. I suspect that is why these dungeon maps are so damn expensive, because people buy them and then go in a group.

      As for the difficulty level..I'm not sure if these T7.3 dungeon scrolls are the same as the hard purple/gold chest T7 random dungeons.. if they are, then that's not nearly hard enough.. However, if these dungeon scroll T7.3 dungeons are actually "84% harder" than *any* random T7 spawn I've seen on the map, then maybe they are what I'm looking for. I'll try them and report back once I get better at getting in and out of T7 when there are groups there. (so far I basically only go when they are unpopulated)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Kurobon ().