Question: Should Silver drop on death as well?

  • Backdrunk wrote:

    Ofc you should drop silver if you die, atleast the silver you are carrying.

    The "money" should only be safe on somekind of bank.


    Currently the problem is there is an automatic tax system in place where guilds can tax their members up to 100% of their earnings. That money goes instantly into a guild bank that wouldn't be touchable. This system would need to be completely revamped if silver dropping on death was a thing. Guild taxation is a great thing in and of itself and would "silver drop on death > guild taxes"? That is the real question here because since we drop all items, gear and mounts on death I'm sure most people are fine with dropping silver too.
  • Valr wrote:

    Zerogeist wrote:

    Darlantan wrote:

    Zerogeist wrote:

    I thought they were making a silver drop amount based on a repair/durability % of the defeated players gear, so there is always a silver award + chance at loot if gear does not go to trash status?



    The question is does the silver drop come from the players wallet or is it created from thin air?

    But the thing is, all loot that's dropped are basically silver anyway, even if you can't wear it or don't wish to you can now salvage it for silver.


    Thin air, I believe they have stated there will never be a silver loss out of your pocket for a death, only gear loss




    The amount of silver dropped on death is based on the % of durability loss of the items the player death created. This is not a 'thin air' amount as the value of the item was dtermined through refining materials silver cost and crafting the items silver cost. Even if the player death were to cause an item(s) to revert to trash, they lost a % of durability to become trash.


    Redbeardt wrote:

    @Valr

    Sure, there's an algorithm to determine how much silver should drop, but the silver itself still appears 'out of thin air'.


    Pretty much this, there is no direct currency # loss from the player pocket, it is a server generated new hard silver amount introduced into the game.

    It will balance out, hopefully they wont let it be exploited so people don't just rez farm each other for cash.
  • Zerogeist wrote:

    hopefully they wont let it be exploited so people don't just rez farm each other for cash.


    Apparently the amount of silver dropped is proportional to the durability loss applied to the equipment of the person who died.

    Since your equipment loses 1/3 of its durability upon your death, in order for this mutual resurrection farming to be profitable, the proportion of silver that appears would have to be more than the cost to repair the damaged items. I'd be very surprised if this were the case!

    So I don't think we have to worry about resurrection farming. If you res-kill someone just a few times in a row, their equipment will be so damaged that they won't be dropping much silver at all.

    .. It's actually a really clever system now that I think about it.
    "Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living." - Morgan Freeman
  • Redbeardt wrote:

    Zerogeist wrote:

    hopefully they wont let it be exploited so people don't just rez farm each other for cash.


    Apparently the amount of silver dropped is proportional to the durability loss applied to the equipment of the person who died.

    Since your equipment loses 1/3 of its durability upon your death, in order for this mutual resurrection farming to be profitable, the proportion of silver that appears would have to be more than the cost to repair the damaged items. I'd be very surprised if this were the case!

    So I don't think we have to worry about resurrection farming. If you res-kill someone just a few times in a row, their equipment will be so damaged that they won't be dropping much silver at all.

    .. It's actually a really clever system now that I think about it.


    Hmm yea good point, I doubt you would be able to game it this way unless the market is super saturated where lower tier gear is cheaper to just rebuy than the repair amount.

    I like the silver dropping regardless, as I have heard of people manually destroying their gear down to a % so that everything on their corpse becomes unlootable if they die (trash) so people don't have a chance to get anything as a troll (or maybe able to retrieve it and repair it?).
  • Dodgin wrote:

    I think your soul should drop on death. Consuming someone's soul would allow you to speak as them in world chat for 30 seconds. There's no way that could end badly. "I love you Grimfest"


    why not you can already speak as them on the forums, but be careful though, saying some horrific will get you banned even if you are joking :) ........................................................... *Look up*
  • Redbeardt wrote:

    @Valr

    Sure, there's an algorithm to determine how much silver should drop, but the silver itself still appears 'out of thin air'.


    See, here you go again, speaking from the position of no knowledge of how the system actually works; and then arguing the wording. I will again tell you as politely as possible - play the Alpha and then you can argue with me.

    Someone (you or another player) has spent silver to refine materials , and someone (you or another player) has spent silver to craft the items. EVERY ITEM HAS A SILVER VALUE based on this. The silver that drops on durability loss is calculated based on these item values, so of course there is a fucking algorithm. It isnt 'out of thin air' because it is silver that has been invested into the system by players... it isnt new money being dumped into the economy that never existed before.

    If a bank pays you interest on money you deposit into your savings, that interest doesnt appear out of thin air. It is paid to you out of interest the bank earns by loaning money to other people or institutions.
  • Valr wrote:

    Redbeardt wrote:

    @Valr

    Sure, there's an algorithm to determine how much silver should drop, but the silver itself still appears 'out of thin air'.


    See, here you go again, speaking from the position of no knowledge of how the system actually works; and then arguing the wording. I will again tell you as politely as possible - play the Alpha and then you can argue with me.

    Someone (you or another player) has spent silver to refine materials , and someone (you or another player) has spent silver to craft the items. EVERY ITEM HAS A SILVER VALUE based on this. The silver that drops on durability loss is calculated based on these item values, so of course there is a fucking algorithm. It isnt 'out of thin air' because it is silver that has been invested into the system by players... it isnt new money being dumped into the economy that never existed before.

    If a bank pays you interest on money you deposit into your savings, that interest doesnt appear out of thin air. It is paid to you out of interest the bank earns by loaning money to other people or institutions.


    get the hell out of here with your math and tested logic!
  • Grimfest wrote:

    Dodgin wrote:

    I think your soul should drop on death. Consuming someone's soul would allow you to speak as them in world chat for 30 seconds. There's no way that could end badly. "I love you Grimfest"


    why not you can already speak as them on the forums, but be careful though, saying some horrific will get you banned even if you are joking :) ........................................................... *Look up*



    My secret affair with Grimfest is out. Cats outta the bag guys
  • Valr wrote:


    See, here you go again, speaking from the position of no knowledge of how the system actually works; and then arguing the wording. I will again tell you as politely as possible - play the Alpha and then you can argue with me.

    Someone (you or another player) has spent silver to refine materials , and someone (you or another player) has spent silver to craft the items. EVERY ITEM HAS A SILVER VALUE based on this. The silver that drops on durability loss is calculated based on these item values, so of course there is a fucking algorithm. It isnt 'out of thin air' because it is silver that has been invested into the system by players... it isnt new money being dumped into the economy that never existed before.

    If a bank pays you interest on money you deposit into your savings, that interest doesnt appear out of thin air. It is paid to you out of interest the bank earns by loaning money to other people or institutions.

    I still don't understand why you're so hostile. Can you try to calm down a bit in general? All that caps, passive aggressive wording, and swearing.

    I'm trying to avoid using that word you seem to hate so much despite how relevant it is to this discussion, but anyway, as angrily delivered as it is, you have a point that opens things up a bit.

    It sounds like you're saying that even though silver can exit the system (via various sinks) and silver can enter the system via drops and whatnot, the latter case doesn't appear 'out of thin air' because that sum of silver existed in the system before. That argument seems to rest on the view that it is the 'exact same silver', but if that were true, then that would mean that there is always a finite amount of silver in the system, and that it is never destroyed, it just moves. I don't know whether that's true, but it seems unlikely.

    By the way, the bank example doesn't work that well when you factor in the fractional reserve system, which certainly appears to allow banks to create money out of thin air. Maybe the interest you get doesn't come from thin air, but their capacity to pay you that interest is likely to be based on previously non-existent currency.
    "Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living." - Morgan Freeman
  • Zetecua wrote:

    If you are able, jump into Albion in the upcoming test. You will see the current mechanics surrounding currency, and will likely see that a change of this nature would require a large investment in development time, as many things would necessarily need to change, and still more things would need rebalanced.


    The games only in Alpha the purpose of Alpha is to make game changing balance changes before release...it's not even in beta yet. They got plenty of time.
  • Last alpha every item had a silver value... this alpha every item has an endurance point and resource value that will be transformed into a silver value to calculate tge silver reward in yellow zones.

    But why you all want to talk and pvp in the noob yellow zones... come and play in the red zone...more fun more drop and full loot...
  • Redbeardt wrote:

    Valr wrote:


    See, here you go again, speaking from the position of no knowledge of how the system actually works; and then arguing the wording. I will again tell you as politely as possible - play the Alpha and then you can argue with me.

    Someone (you or another player) has spent silver to refine materials , and someone (you or another player) has spent silver to craft the items. EVERY ITEM HAS A SILVER VALUE based on this. The silver that drops on durability loss is calculated based on these item values, so of course there is a fucking algorithm. It isnt 'out of thin air' because it is silver that has been invested into the system by players... it isnt new money being dumped into the economy that never existed before.

    If a bank pays you interest on money you deposit into your savings, that interest doesnt appear out of thin air. It is paid to you out of interest the bank earns by loaning money to other people or institutions.

    I still don't understand why you're so hostile. Can you try to calm down a bit in general? All that caps, passive aggressive wording, and swearing.

    I'm trying to avoid using that word you seem to hate so much despite how relevant it is to this discussion, but anyway, as angrily delivered as it is, you have a point that opens things up a bit.

    It sounds like you're saying that even though silver can exit the system (via various sinks) and silver can enter the system via drops and whatnot, the latter case doesn't appear 'out of thin air' because that sum of silver existed in the system before. That argument seems to rest on the view that it is the 'exact same silver', but if that were true, then that would mean that there is always a finite amount of silver in the system, and that it is never destroyed, it just moves. I don't know whether that's true, but it seems unlikely.

    By the way, the bank example doesn't work that well when you factor in the fractional reserve system, which certainly appears to allow banks to create money out of thin air. Maybe the interest you get doesn't come from thin air, but their capacity to pay you that interest is likely to be based on previously non-existent currency.


    when you wreck your car, does the insurance company print new money to cover your loss?
  • @Valr and @Redbeardt , i think you should both stop arguing, or at least take it to PM.
    You both have some good points. However @Valr there is in fact endless supplies of money in the game - small amounts gained by raiding pve dungeons and such. On the other end, weapons and armour takes silver to craft that goes to nowhere, making a little exit for the money. Small amounts on both ends, but still something. All other silver exists only in the players in some way or another - you can only sell items to other players, there is no selling to an npc vendor. All in all I believe that the economy is balanced, but it could become a problem when there is an overcrowded world. Once this happens there will be less silver in the economy and there will either have to be a larger world scaling (with the resources scaling up as well) which i heard may happen, or an influx of silver so that there is not a shortage.
    Oh, and i should add that i have not as of yet played the game, however i have seen much gameplay of it and spent plenty of time researching the game and on the forums.
  • Valr wrote:

    when you wreck your car, does the insurance company print new money to cover your loss?

    -_- I'm surprised it took me this long to realise you were trolling. Well played, I suppose.

    Anyways @Kirredorr I'll bow out of this discussion since there's little value in it anyway. It's entirely semantic anyway, since it's clear to most what 'out of thin air' means, and even if you disagree with that usage, most know what the person means by it.
    "Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living." - Morgan Freeman
  • It wont happen - as it can be abused due to some simple and wanted ingame mechanics namely taxes - if you had read the 501 threads about this topic before... you would know what i am refering too - what the devs/mods have written about that several times too.

    Plus "banking" silver in a local bank would make little to no sense either...plus the recovery without silver would be insanly hard after a death - something people will know that have played the game .... stop griefing poor pvp-victims and let them keep their hard earned silver - you already looted all their gear resources etc ...

    Have a nice day - and start reading up more before posting please.
  • I support this for all areas including dropping all coin when dieing to PvE so there risk there too. I do like risk vs Reward.
    Of course though they need to add a way to bank coins aswell first which they dont currently have for some reason (Either global bank for coin or local banking for it) both has its positive/negatives but i would personaly pref the local bank for that aswell though.

    Currency has been bankabale/droppable from games from 1999 aka Everquest, Platnium, gold, silver and copper coins, they wernt technically a physicaly object like everything else but they could be banked, traded, dropped and even looted by players on pvp servers.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Veeshan ().