My 2 bits of criticism as a new player

    • My 2 bits of criticism as a new player

      ive only played this game for 1 week and here is my impression about it:

      first of all, i know ill be spammed with "gEt OvEr iT bRo" or "SucK iT Up" but you have to understand the difference between descriptive criticism and prescriptive criticism. while the former is about how something *is*, the latter is about how something *should be*. replying to a prescriptive criticism with a descriptive answer (like replying to "this feature doesnt appeal to me" with "this is just how the game is") is a fallacy and it's not what im talking about. im not here saying "i didnt understand what this game is about" im saying "these are what make new players quit and turn the place into a negativity machine". so there is no reason for you to tell me what the game is about. im sure you flamed enough newbies in the past so leave that at the door for this time.

      i started this game with 9 other people. they all left. im the only one remaining. i also made friends from other new players when i just started (i guess there was this wave of new incoming players after an ad campaign that i also got directed with?) and none of them on my friend list are online anymore. seems like many players who came just left right out the same way.

      why? from a gamers perspective less people means less fun. from a business perspective less customers means bankruptcy.

      the game looks like it was specifically designed to make kids cry. seriously. i mean i dont mean dying around, i played uo for years. but in that game it felt like getting pked was a side effect of the magic-realistic world that was mainly designed to create a virtual mythical environment. in this game it feels like griefing is exactly what the game was designed for, specifically. the limits of the game itself push you towards that point. like you force players to make trade runs right into the same zones where you make the pks hang out. the maps are with borders and many skills are designed to root mounted people. could you be more obvious?

      it's almost like the whole message is "you can pay money to kill other players." how? isnt everything achievable in game that you can buy with real money? sure, only if you have 34985 hours to spare. and that's even worse - paying with time is worse than paying with money. it feels like a stress test: you need to risk your items if you want to make serious money, and you need money to improve your skills, but you will keep dying unless a richer player helps you - so just give up and buy some silver.

      thats fine. ive seen worse. but even those money trap games offered something in return for a semi forced purchase. monthly subscription costs same as my dinner money. i dont mind paying. but then at least i get some delicious food you know? what do i get here? ability to kill others who didnt?

      so the strongest items in the game are artifacts. they are very expensive to buy and very expensive to repair - they dont pay off their skill grinding process. a paying customer buys these, grinds these using his money, gets stronger, goes to red zone trading route (very easy to access) and kills a trader and loots 2m. easy peasy. how is this not p2w?

      i mean get real, non-paying customers are not poor people. they are either kids who dont have credit cards or people who are self-conscious enough of their gaming addictions that they feel ashamed to pay any more money into games. and mind you - a paying customer will not pay unless they see that they will get something in return.
    • pvp - solo pvp is non existent. i dont understand how you managed to make such a diverse and original combat skill tree but yet somehow managed to make it so railroaded. i guess a guild of 100+ players wont lose any combat power if they all suddenly decided to switch to axes altogether. all other classes/skills feel like they could only be selected through mistake or by a personal preference. mass pvp like 5v5, zvz, gvg etc are monotonous. the twitch/yt videos of 50 health bars running around and some dude screaming out of volume when some bomb hits the opponents group in the middle is only interesting to watch for 15 seconds. thats as interesting as it gets. i dont understand clearly what they get out of it anyway. there is almost nothing in the zones to make them worthwhile to capture. money? what do you do with money if you have already reached max skill/gear?

      pve - dungeons are a mini game. adventuring out in the open doesnt pay off. world mobs are nothing but gathering/trading obstacles. players group together against mobs only out of necessity, not for fun.

      solo - its kind of sad that the only fun part of an online game thats meant to be played with others is playing solo. yes soloing is fun in this game, because you dont have to deal with other players.

      player base - there are extremely nice people, but it's very rare. most people will complain about your gear and whine about new players lack of skill. ive never seen this idiocy in other games before in my life. if you dont want to group with weak players you simply group with stronger players? whats the point of complaining until the whole group dies to the easiest mobs in the gaming world?

      crafting - so if i dont want a life of combat i can always do crafting, right? wrong! are we surprised that medium tier gathering material is mysteriously placed right in middle of red/black zones? i mean you almost do this strategically to create the scenario where a peaceful player meets with a 10 player large group of pks. oh is this not fun? you realize that the player most probably closes the game at that point right? closes the game. do you know what i mean? in today's world businesses try their best to apply seo's and contents to KEEP people on their platform, you are focusing on the features that make people leave the game. i mean if youre trying to teach teenaged kids the realities of life, there are better ways to do it than trying to railroad them into paying their parents money to make griefing stop. whats the message here anyway? "you have to craft and blood and sweat and get killed and looted until you pass the treshold and reach that point yourself, so you can inflict the same grief onto others" ? you realize this is the same message as "if you were bullied you should bully others" right? most of your player base is 14-20 years olds. also its weird that you have to take goods from one city to other risking items, but you never lose your money when you die. why not? where do you carry it? magical astral pocket plane? ive never seen anyone trying to launder money into caerleon. now before you think im trying to convince the devs to implement even worse scenarios of getting griefed - i know that the only reason silver cant be looted and is stored in a global magical bank account is to make things easier for red players. they dont have to live off from the wild.

      housing - good idea but the whole thing feels as if you tried not to be the target of "this isnt sims" critique. many people dont understand the point of housing. its some form of endgame. it gives you something to do (other than grinding 49832 years to improve it) and a form of customization. i wont get into housing system philosophy of online games, but i really have to say that housing here feels like facebook games. the general of the game has that feel - achievements and icons and buttons.. everything. you dont really build a house. you just press buttons that require an amount of resources to be present and it rewards you with a singular feature, if at all. its like the keep mechanics in pillars of eternity and how disappointing it was to the regular rpg players. after seeing the customization of uo, swg, wildstar, eq2, lotro etc this just feels no sense of uniqueness and very few and look-alike design features. i couldnt get to test the real estate market yet, but i heard that you have to defend it physically so thats a bit weird.

      endgame - this is the prime reason why new players quit i think. every game has to offer some form of everlasting feature that you can take advantage of. it doesnt have to be at the end either. you need a reason to play. be that running a large guild, some city, exploring unique areas, trading, crafting high end items, seeing good art, seeing many interesting items, testing new features, adding more and more builds into your estate, developing your character, advancing a story line, drifting, adventuring, helping others etc etc. only very few of these exist in this game, and only for "just so". how come there are quest mechanics but no quests? i mean sandboxing isnt a term solely dominated by game mechanics, you can have sandbox quests too. there isnt even a story line. what is the story in this world? people immigrate to another island? i mean even tree of life managed to keep me interested for longer than a month. archeage has some nice scenery and good theme. uo and swg had those sandboxed quests. you already have the mechanics, so why not use it?

      griefing - i already talked about this, but as i understand it this is the secondary reason why new players quit. really, i dont understand why. and mind you, i was a pk on uo myself. i did pvp on arcehage, anarchy online, sa:mp rp (the true ganking game lol), swg (yep you could lose a jedi permanently to a wanker bounty hunter) and etc. im not whining here. im just pointing out the fact that the whole game being designed into one end objective which is to grief other players turns the game into a negativity machine.

      this research shows that people log into games mainly for escapism. where do i escape to in this game? enriching another player who was given advantage by the devs? here is a statistic that shows that the 5 prime reasons why people play games is things like "stimulate imagination" or "to enjoy time in a friendly environent" etc. "to challenge other players" is at the 6th. explains why all my friends quit and i probably will as well. as i said, i dont mind playing under pk dominancy, i just find it extremely weird that this was especially designed to be the sole purpose of the game. i dont want to play a game where im sure that some serious drama has occurred over some kid losing millions of worth items to a lag spike in a specific situation, and that was the point of this all anyway.

      every game has a player filtration system. some games filter out collectors, some filter out roleplayers etc. it's just extremely weird that you guys are favoring the type of player that enjoys ruining another players experience.

      wow this was long. im going to cut it short here as i have more to say, but you probably guess what i will criticize anyway. there is no tl:dr. suck it up

      The post was edited 1 time, last by bluel0tus ().

    • This is a very social game, it's about being with your gang chilling out, doing whatever you want to do in a hostile environment called Albion, where the danger could end your dreams, or maybe you and your friends end someone's else dream. "where do i escape to in this game?" To me, the answer to that question relies not only in the game itself but in the fun I have playing with other people in my guild, having common objectives and trying to reach them together is really fun.

      I mean, you point up some good things, and maybe in others we cannot agree, like the "griefing" part, I mean, this game is actually designed around PVP and it does it very well.

      But still, try to get some new companions, join a stablished guild, and have fun.

      Gryffyth:Toma tu arma y síguenos en discord.gg/ktrNXWN
    • blueL0tus, I'm not going to argue with gist of your post, but I'll point out that you don't need to ever enter red/black zones to make money.

      Honestly, while I see your point about a "ganking machine", and that may be what a new player sees first, I feel like Albion is really a "market machine", and ganking is simply an excuse/sink to keep the market running.

      So, the truly unique gameplay pattern I see in Albion is the market. I've found several interesting ways to exploit it to get silver: nothing serious, mind you, just poking around and exploring, but I've found viable revenue streams entirely self-contained to the royal markets: buying low, selling high, no ganking, gathering, or travel through any zones required.

      Add travel through blue/yellow zones, and that opens up interesting possibilities, simply in the royal cities. No need to do Caerleon or the black market (although a personal island helps a lot).

      If a market endgame doesn't appeal to you, with your silver acquired being your score, I can see why Albion might not be your game. I don't mind the PKing: that's simply a risk management problem, but as a relatively new player, I was hoping for a survival game like Kenshi (or the upcoming Fractured MMO), and the black zone didn't turn out to be anything like that. Hoping the Queen update helps!

      Anyhow, good luck in your gaming: hope you find something you enjoy. :)
    • I agree with pretty much all of your points, especially the lack of quest lines! Three months ago I started the game with a group of friends, and we all enjoyed the introduction questing and were impressed by the open world, but everyone left after a week when they discovered there was no quest line past the intro story. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to add something in like that to give people a monthly quest to complete that gives you some resources, or even just a unique placard.

      Having said all that, it can be fun to join a guild and go out into the outlands with a group of people and either run dungeons or look for stranglers to gank. Personally i don't really get into the ganking side of it, but some people live for that kind of adrenaline rush, knowing you could die at any given moment. Personally i wish the cities were more dynamic and it was easier to open up and maintain a shop in town. I have enjoyed the gathering & crafting aspect and wish there was a role as a trader/shop keeper that was more engaging.

      Anyways, i feel your pain and frustration, and hope you either find a way to get more out of the game, or find a game that better fits your needs!
    • "makes you run trades through red zones"
      not true. I made a fortune trading the market without moving a single item out of town. You can make massive amounts of silver right out the gate standing naked at the market with a zero-fame character. There is no need to transport stuff at all to make silver.

      "needs artifacts to kill people"
      not true. There is good ganking builds with very basic items too. If you spend more than 50k silver for a gank set as a beginner you're doing it wrong.


      If you need quests talk to me ingame. I will give you quests.
      Head of the 'Traders and merchants guild'

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rixlette ().

    • Don't waste time typing in a feedback text wall, as most forum players don't realize Albion is losing playerbase and soon won't have enough to maintain the economy, even though it's F2P.I don't like Albion's business model because everything is bought with gold that can be earned by credit card only. Nerds say you can make gold with silver, but never the hardcore player in the world can beat a full wallet warrior in terms of progress in the game due to the gold system.The game is bad for retaining new players and even F2P model has a much lower population.No one will invest in a game that is out of online players.DEVs should make the PVP of the game more accessible with full loot only for bet. Create servers with specific rules for each audience: hardcore and casual and make gold used for buying cosmetic items only.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by hamonteixeira ().

    • I've never spend any more money on the game than when i first bought the starter pack back then and i sit on years of premium and am rich as fuck. Your argument is invalid. Stop crying and start grinding the auction house, plebs. I make a million a day without even trying just from sellorders.

      The truth is: playerbase is going down because that's normal and people come back for the big updates. Also full loot pvp is not for everyone.
      Head of the 'Traders and merchants guild'

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rixlette ().

    • I don't really understand this post. You have made your life as hard as possible in AO. You have played for a single week. What exactly do you expect?

      Almost nothing you have said makes sense, or represents the reality of the game. Which is no surprise since you haven't even started playing the game yet. However, you don't seem to actually want to learn the game anyway. If you did, this wouldn't have been your first post.

      The players in this game actually go out of their way to help new players. For me, I do it because the games learning curve is very steep and there isn't a significant knowledge base accessible on the internet. I can't remember the last time I found a thread on the forums, or reddit, where a question went unanswered.

      You don't seem to want help learning the game though. You seem to just want to be mad that you can't just wander into AO and become a hero of legend in your first week. It's a bad attitude to have and it won't serve you well here, or anywhere.

      AO isn't a dopamine drip MMO. It doesn't have a million useless little boxes to fill up by doing X, Y number of times, to make you feel like you are accomplishing something. It has a number of progression systems that you get geometrically better at as you learn the game. After that you are on your own. Goal oriented players, players willing to overcome obstacles on their own, thrive. Players who get frustrated by obstacles and give up, don't.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
      "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • When the devs where making Albion(Beta) and even before release, they said it many many times and made it very clear that this game is not for everyone, and they are only targeting a niche.

      So far, they have stayed true to their roots, and thats what their target audience wants. I think you may not be part of the target audience. Maybe try another game.
    • Holoin wrote:

      When the devs where making Albion(Beta) and even before release, they said it many many times and made it very clear that this game is not for everyone, and they are only targeting a niche.

      So far, they have stayed true to their roots, and thats what their target audience wants. I think you may not be part of the target audience. Maybe try another game.
      if you read the post you will see that they are failing to keep that niche target audience themselves. i was a pk in uo and this is still weird to me. do you have any other argument other than "leave us then :((" ?
    • Neesh wrote:

      This is a very social game, it's about being with your gang chilling out, doing whatever you want to do in a hostile environment called Albion, where the danger could end your dreams, or maybe you and your friends end someone's else dream. "where do i escape to in this game?" To me, the answer to that question relies not only in the game itself but in the fun I have playing with other people in my guild, having common objectives and trying to reach them together is really fun.

      I mean, you point up some good things, and maybe in others we cannot agree, like the "griefing" part, I mean, this game is actually designed around PVP and it does it very well.

      But still, try to get some new companions, join a stablished guild, and have fun.
      again, this is a descriptive answer. i understand what the game is, i just dont think that the game offers anything unique to enjoy a mutual environment with the others or with the guild.
    • Roccandil wrote:

      blueL0tus, I'm not going to argue with gist of your post, but I'll point out that you don't need to ever enter red/black zones to make money.

      Honestly, while I see your point about a "ganking machine", and that may be what a new player sees first, I feel like Albion is really a "market machine", and ganking is simply an excuse/sink to keep the market running.

      So, the truly unique gameplay pattern I see in Albion is the market. I've found several interesting ways to exploit it to get silver: nothing serious, mind you, just poking around and exploring, but I've found viable revenue streams entirely self-contained to the royal markets: buying low, selling high, no ganking, gathering, or travel through any zones required.

      Add travel through blue/yellow zones, and that opens up interesting possibilities, simply in the royal cities. No need to do Caerleon or the black market (although a personal island helps a lot).

      If a market endgame doesn't appeal to you, with your silver acquired being your score, I can see why Albion might not be your game. I don't mind the PKing: that's simply a risk management problem, but as a relatively new player, I was hoping for a survival game like Kenshi (or the upcoming Fractured MMO), and the black zone didn't turn out to be anything like that. Hoping the Queen update helps!

      Anyhow, good luck in your gaming: hope you find something you enjoy. :)
      dont worry, i figured out how to dodge around the ganking and already made several millions in a few days. i dont think you guys are reading through my point because of the typical counter arguments you are used to give to criticizing players. what im saying is that its very likely that a new player will not be able to figure these nuanced mechanics out (since its all designed to make it into some kind of trap for the oblivious), and they will also not be motivated enough to bother figuring things out like i did (since the game doesnt offer an attractive objective or endgame). you can easily see 99% of new players saying "what is there to do here?" or saying it's boring.

      market endgame isnt the viable endgame that it promises to be, as it isnt fed by different classes of crafters but mainly from dungeoners. i would love to see a trading sim right next to a bandit mechanics, but the game doesnt deliver that either.

      dont get me wrong. i do like the game. thats why im criticizing it so harshly. i hope devs take a leap of faith and improve things. at the current state, like in my personal statistics of seeing 9 whole seasoned mmo rpg players passing right through, i dont think it will succeed for long.
    • hamonteixeira wrote:

      Don't waste time typing in a feedback text wall, as most forum players don't realize Albion is losing playerbase and soon won't have enough to maintain the economy, even though it's F2P.I don't like Albion's business model because everything is bought with gold that can be earned by credit card only. Nerds say you can make gold with silver, but never the hardcore player in the world can beat a full wallet warrior in terms of progress in the game due to the gold system.The game is bad for retaining new players and even F2P model has a much lower population.No one will invest in a game that is out of online players.DEVs should make the PVP of the game more accessible with full loot only for bet. Create servers with specific rules for each audience: hardcore and casual and make gold used for buying cosmetic items only.
      indeed, when the whole mechanics revolve around making others lose to wallet warriors, i dont think i want to pay at all knowing that it will contribute to that systematic. ive seen games fall like this many times before, mainly swg, where logical criticism of the majority goes unheard against the defense and complaints of the loud minority.

      but yeah, im supposed to go find a new game right? ?(
    • Piddle wrote:

      I don't really understand this post. You have made your life as hard as possible in AO. You have played for a single week. What exactly do you expect?

      Almost nothing you have said makes sense, or represents the reality of the game. Which is no surprise since you haven't even started playing the game yet. However, you don't seem to actually want to learn the game anyway. If you did, this wouldn't have been your first post.

      The players in this game actually go out of their way to help new players. For me, I do it because the games learning curve is very steep and there isn't a significant knowledge base accessible on the internet. I can't remember the last time I found a thread on the forums, or reddit, where a question went unanswered.

      You don't seem to want help learning the game though. You seem to just want to be mad that you can't just wander into AO and become a hero of legend in your first week. It's a bad attitude to have and it won't serve you well here, or anywhere.

      AO isn't a dopamine drip MMO. It doesn't have a million useless little boxes to fill up by doing X, Y number of times, to make you feel like you are accomplishing something. It has a number of progression systems that you get geometrically better at as you learn the game. After that you are on your own. Goal oriented players, players willing to overcome obstacles on their own, thrive. Players who get frustrated by obstacles and give up, don't.
      i dont think you read the post at all. what makes you think i made my life as hard as possible in ao? what does that have anything to do with it? i found a nice guild and made a lot of money. my play style has nothing to do with my observations about how new players are faring in the game. this is hardcore ad-hominem: "your argument must be false because of you"

      did you read the title? it says the observations of a new player. NEW player. the post is about how to keep NEW players. if 1 week isnt enough to keep a NEW player (and again, in my post im telling you the statistics of how it doesnt) there is a problem. is this a game for old veterans? the games isnt that old itself to be that way. then why advertise at all? just make a small inside closed family game that you run a server with 50 close friends and enjoy everything among each other.

      your assumptions about my expectations and thinking that im just complaining because something didnt serve me personally is horribly fallacious. i hope this isnt the way you discuss topics with the players that you are helping, because it's worrisome.
    • Equart wrote:

      @bluel0tus I want , i really want to type my counter arguments on each sentence you wrote. But i'm lazy ass.



      Although , i agree with some of your thoughts. Yeap , this game is not perfect , i was telling it before and ill tell it again - it is not AAA project. Deal with it and keep hoping for a good/massive updates , that will satisfy your game style. Or try to find other game.
      im sure you can, but im very curious about your defense on carrying all the money on a global astral bank account wherever you go
    • Yep, if you dont like something you just dont use it. Simple.

      Almost everything you listed in your comment is coming from a very noob player.

      You want solo pvp? There is something called duels. You could also solo 2v2 hellgates if are good enough or if you know how to run a lot .

      Yes everyone in the guild can change to axes, of but what a mistake that would be. Zergs need to be well varied to be sucessfull. For example, healers, have all your healers as nature and your main tanks will suffer a bit. You need a few holy healers. Same thing with every role, you want variety.

      As for what do they gain for ZvZ? Well, a good Zerg can deny the enemy the ability to activate a 5v5. Wish helps you in keeping a territory that gives you season points and for every rank you obtain a season reward, like a seasonal mount. Reach to crystal rank and that mount will be very valiable. Also, the winner of the season gets a nice statue.

      And yes everything eventually comes to money. In the end, what you actually gain is silver. Money and prestige, thats all there is to a sandbox game.

      As for PVE, yes the game is lacking a lot of pve, and there is a reason for that.Albion is not a pve game. Its a pvp game.

      as for the comunity, you say the players are always mad at you because you have the wrong equipment etc ect.. Thats because if you dont have a high enough tier and the correct equipment, you will cause the dead of your team. And if anyone in the team high tier relics, then their repair gets expensive, and if you are in red/blackzone its even worse because some one could come and execute everyone without being able to fight back. And because its so easy to get to T6 equivalent, there is simply no excuse. Sadly some noobs dont seem to understand so you have to repeat it to them many times.However, there are some guilds that are beyond toxic and if you decide to be part of that then its your fault for wanting to be there. You can just leave and find a guild that doesnt tolerate toxicity. Simple.

      And if you join a ZvZ or GvG oriented guild and you are still a noob, its obvious everyone will be screaming at you. ZvZ and GvG are supposed to be end game activities. Noobs should seek pve guild or hellgate focused guilds and not ZvZ focused guilds.

      you are either simply a noob crying or some one outside of the target audience.

      And if anyone is playing albion online to escape anything in real life, then yes absolutely they are playing the wrong game.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Holoin ().