I have a farm with 3 farming plots and some 800k silver. What farming activity has a decent ROI without premium?

    • Dc1a0 wrote:

      Grimhawke-EB wrote:

      Dc1a0 wrote:

      That's a flat out lie. I can craft several of what I want keep the best and sell the rest and my silver keeps going up. Loss means I would lose silver in that endeavor, not gain. Therefore, your arbitrary definition either does not apply, you're simply mistaken, or you're being intentionally dishonest. I don't know which it is and I honestly don't care.
      You may still be seeing your silver going up, but you are taking a loss by crafting. Meaning your silver would have gone up by more if you had just sold the materials, instead of taking a loss by crafting and selling the end item.If you're gathering or growing your own inputs, you still need to account for the value of those items if you were to sell them on the auction house. In most cases, it's often better to sell the inputs instead of crafting and selling the output, if you're not using focus for the additional resource return rate.
      Just saw this.
      In actually, I don't have to account for the cost of those items if I sold them, if I'm not selling them. I only have to account for what those items cost ME. Besides, there's more than the ways you listed to get inputs, now, isn't there?

      I'm sorry, but I'm not going to mention my methods, or even all of what I'm going to craft or sell, because that could lead others to copy my methods and reduce the profitability I gain for thinking outside of the box.

      But, even gathering, there's ways to get more out of things than most people do when they consider costs. There's factors most people ignore. I don't ignore all of them. The only metric I do ignore is time, because the fact that I'm playing a game means I'm wasting time by default.
      Just because you're choosing to ignore the opportunity cost of selling your inputs doesn't mean that opportunity cost doesn't exist.

      I could gather and refine to have 8 leather and even though i gathered it myself, it doesn't mean the value of that leather is 0. It's value is whatever someone will pay for it. If someone will pay more for the leather, than an item crafted from it (less whatever the value of the resources returned) you're losing money by crafting and selling the item, as opposed to the original 8 leather.


      Anyway, this whole thread got off topic - of course there will be times where it's profitable to do things without premium or without focus, but those situations will be the exception not the norm.

      Take the OP's question for example, using carrots. Carrot seeds cost ~1400-1500 silver. Without focus your average yield is only going to be 4-5 carrots, worth ~300 silver each, and you have 0% chance of getting a seed back without focus. So every time you plant a carrot without premium or focus, your best case is to break even and on average you'll lose silver.
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    • I never said the opportunity didn't exist, but an opportunity not taken is irrelevant. I mean hell, if you'd quit sending time playing a game and did something productive, you'd be gaining on an opportunity cost. But you're not, you're playing a game. Same principle within the game. An opportunity not taken is of little value unless you intend to change your methods.
    • Don't herbs have the same half harvest quantity as other crops if you're not on a Paid character? The seed drop seems like it's on a calculated sliding scale so that the much more expensive higher tier seeds give a better seed drop so there's always enough seed loss in silver to make it unrewarding. It's engineered to only be worthwhile for a Paid character with focus. (I am not complaining about this, BTW, paying will always give perks)
    • Dygenn_II wrote:

      Don't herbs have the same half harvest quantity as other crops if you're not on a Paid character? The seed drop seems like it's on a calculated sliding scale so that the much more expensive higher tier seeds give a better seed drop so there's always enough seed loss in silver to make it unrewarding. It's engineered to only be worthwhile for a Paid character with focus. (I am not complaining about this, BTW, paying will always give perks)
      My alt which has only done herbs farming with no premium has 3 mil in the bank, which would suggest there is profit in it........
    • Moosius wrote:

      Dygenn_II wrote:

      Don't herbs have the same half harvest quantity as other crops if you're not on a Paid character? The seed drop seems like it's on a calculated sliding scale so that the much more expensive higher tier seeds give a better seed drop so there's always enough seed loss in silver to make it unrewarding. It's engineered to only be worthwhile for a Paid character with focus. (I am not complaining about this, BTW, paying will always give perks)
      My alt which has only done herbs farming with no premium has 3 mil in the bank, which would suggest there is profit in it........
      How long did it take you to make 3m on the alt? And how much support did that character have from your main character? Do you buy/sell on the AH with your alt which means you pay slightly higher transaction costs?
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    • To be fair, my alt had premium initially and started at FTP launch, only had premium for a couple of months though. It is the only one that works the farms and only help was my main bought seeds and a few hundred k silver for stuff.

      The key thing is minimum sell price, I mainly grow T5+ herbs and have a minimum price which I will sell at, if the price is lower, i hold on to it and sell later.

      For example, T6 you get seeds around 9 out of 10 fields, from those 10 fields you get approx 40-50 herbs, which sell for around 22k-27k ish (@550 silver per item). Single seed cost around 13k? = daily profit

      I have seen a lot of 'guides' out there that tell you it is not profitable but most these are based on sell price of 300 per item, which has not been the case with herbs for some time.
    • Theat wrote:

      The title of this thread is crafting and farming without premium, meaning, no focus.

      You can claim that you make profit crafting without focus; but you can't. Maybe you sold one or two items and got lucky. But that is not a reflection of the overall market and game. Almost everywhere in the game, the refined material ingredients of an item, are worth more than the item itself. The items may go up in price, based on demand. But in general, the price of gear and goods are slightly below the cost of refined materials.

      This is offset by Premium when the resource-return is boosted, for example, from 15% resource return to 44%, or 0% to 37%.

      You are mistaken.

      Dont listen to people who dont know what they are doing or who think Carleon is the only city. It is easy and fast to make a profit from items without focus, i do it all the time. And these prices are not even buy order prices so add buyorders and you can make nice flips from crafting items. This is Fort Sterling prices and the avg for all royal cities for 5.1 axe is 60-65k which is still 10k more then the prices + tax (Avg tax in FS for warrior forge is 43-45%)

    • Theat wrote:

      The title of this thread is crafting and farming without premium, meaning, no focus.

      You can claim that you make profit crafting without focus; but you can't. Maybe you sold one or two items and got lucky. But that is not a reflection of the overall market and game. Almost everywhere in the game, the refined material ingredients of an item, are worth more than the item itself. The items may go up in price, based on demand. But in general, the price of gear and goods are slightly below the cost of refined materials.

      This is offset by Premium when the resource-return is boosted, for example, from 15% resource return to 44%, or 0% to 37%.

      You are mistaken.

      Theat wrote:

      By the way OP, to give you a further insight of why crafting is not worthwhile.

      A 5.1 Asassin jacket in Caerleon is selling at 44k right now. The cost of refined materials is 58k, PLUS crafting fees.

      Therefore, Dc1a0 is wrong.
      Complete an utter rubbish, one thing that pretty much EVEYONE forgets in crafting equation (including the many crafting calculators) - LABOURERS

      They give you massive additional materials return which is what makes you turn a profit. For example,

      I craft a T6 Halberd in Martlock with NO FOCUS

      Cost me 32 mats (bars and planks)
      I get 8 mats back due to extra return rate and I fill at least one T6 journal
      Give that journal to labourer and get another approx 10 mats back

      Meaning the Halberd only cost me 14 mats to make (NOT 32).....

      Average cost of T6 Mats = 2,200
      Total cost of mats = 30,800

      Sell price of Halberd = 41,000
      Profit = 10,200 - craft cost and sales tax

      25% profit margin, of course it is lower on other items i craft with less return rate but still making a good profit on everything.

      sorry but if you are failing to make a profit, you are doing it wrong...... using labourers is much more important than focus.

      Cant believe i keep telling people all the good stuff

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Moosius ().

    • Moosius wrote:

      Complete an utter rubbish, one thing that pretty much EVEYONE forgets in crafting equation (including the many crafting calculators) - LABOURERS
      They give you massive additional materials return which is what makes you turn a profit. For example,

      I craft a T6 Halberd in Martlock with NO FOCUS

      Cost me 32 mats (bars and planks)
      I get 8 mats back due to extra return rate and I fill at least one T6 journal
      Give that journal to labourer and get another approx 10 mats back

      Meaning the Halberd only cost me 14 mats to make (NOT 32).....

      Average cost of T6 Mats = 2,200
      Total cost of mats = 30,800

      Sell price of Halberd = 41,000
      Profit = 10,200 - craft cost and sales tax

      25% profit margin, of course it is lower on other items i craft with less return rate but still making a good profit on everything.

      sorry but if you are failing to make a profit, you are doing it wrong...... using labourers is much more important than focus.

      Cant believe i keep telling people all the good stuff
      Only utter trash is your response.

      Laborers requires an island. Island requires premium.


      This thread is about NO PREMIUM. Try again.
    • You can pick a couple better items to sell than others. But that's not 99% of the most used items in the game, which are NOT profitable, without premium.

      Go through 100 different, commonly used items on the auction house, include Caerleon crafting prices and 4-week price average.


      We'll see how stupid a suggestion it is to craft or trade without premium.

      With premium and specialization, the profit margin makes it worthwhile.

      Instead of spending hours trying to make a 1000 or 1000 silver profit margin.


      What a joke you two are.
    • To the OP, and all others who are interested in premium, here's the bottom line.


      While you have others struggling to craft for hours chasing a 10,000 silver profit, waiting 2-3 days on the trade to sell, if you have premium and specialization, you can make 50,000 silver profit on an instant-sell of the same item. Easily 5x more efficient.

      Don't let these people trick you into saying it's worthwhile without Premium, when you should be getting Premium (which you'll easily be able to afford later on) ASAP.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Evas_Flarelight: Edited out the words noobs and clowns. ().

    • @Theat D0 you realize any of the following?:

      1. You're taking a GAME waaaay too seriously.
      2. Profit is profit, if you gain more than you started with in the endeavor, you're winning. whether it's 10k silver or 50k silver. You're only really losing if you're sitting at the bank begging people to give you silver and/or items.
      3. If you think maximized profit is king, then, instead of wasting time playing a GAME, you could be out in the world making real profit that makes a real difference.


      The original question, wasn't, "should I continue to pay for premium?" The question was "what can I plant that gives me the best results WITHOUT paying for premium?" Instead of going on a tirade about your assumption that since you can't survive without premium no-one can; You could have given your findings and left it at that.

      I haven't bought premium to get my own island yet, otherwise, I'd be happy to give him the facts. As he would be happiest with an answer like "Crop A profits 10 after expenses and without focus, Crop B profit's 15 after expenses and without focus, Crop C would be a loss even if you had focus."
    • Theat wrote:

      Only utter trash is your response.
      Laborers requires an island. Island requires premium.


      This thread is about NO PREMIUM. Try again.
      Firstly, this thread was SPECIFICALLY about FARMING not crafting, someone else derailed it, I was just giving the facts about crafting without focus. Sorry if you think my reasonably well presented figures on the subject were 'utter trash'.

      Also you dont need premium to use labourers, our guild (like most guilds) supply labourers for anyone to use on our guild island, premium or not. We also have plenty of players who do not use their islands now and are happy for new players to use them, I have a new player using mine at the moment, guess what, he does not have his own island. There are also a number of other organisations which allow people to use labourers for free such as trade federations. Sorry if you are a little butt hurt because i pointed out that you can craft for big profits without using focus. Also, have you ever considered anger management? You seem a little....... stressed

      Theat wrote:

      To the OP, and all others who are interested in premium, here's the bottom line.


      While you have others struggling to craft for hours chasing a 10,000 silver profit, waiting 2-3 days on the trade to sell, if you have premium and specialization, you can make 50,000 silver profit on an instant-sell of the same item. Easily 5x more efficient.

      Don't let these people trick you into saying it's worthwhile without Premium, when you should be getting Premium (which you'll easily be able to afford later on) ASAP.
      Sorry where do I struggle for hours to make 10,000 silverf???? I craft 80 halberbs at a time, from T5 to T8, alongside hundreds of other items, I sell all around the map and make a fortune, I have hundreds of millions of silver. I have also NEVER said that it is not worthwhile getting premium, I have it on my main and used to also run it on my ALT. I was just pointing out that you cannot ignore labourers when talking about crafting, they are much more important than focus, because focus is very limited, particularly at low spec (which the OP clearly will be). Whereas labourers can be used all the time. I suggest you stop talking to me like I am a noob, open your ears and listen, you might learn a thing or two.

      The post was edited 7 times, last by Moosius ().

    • Theat wrote:

      To the OP, and all others who are interested in premium, here's the bottom line.


      While you have others struggling to craft for hours chasing a 10,000 silver profit, waiting 2-3 days on the trade to sell, if you have premium and specialization, you can make 50,000 silver profit on an instant-sell of the same item. Easily 5x more efficient.

      Don't let these people trick you into saying it's worthwhile without Premium, when you should be getting Premium (which you'll easily be able to afford later on) ASAP.
      So basically you went from it is impossible to make a profit to - Making 1k profit is uselss and below to 50k profit without instasell is pointless per item. I craft quite a bit on daily bases, i correct the price on the few items that dont sell in 2 day time span and most of the stuff i craft without focus points (I am prem, but the game isnt about making money, as if i needed money i could work 1h IRL and have more money than i have ingame for working for an hour). The main point what is - You can make a profit easily for crafting without focus points. The profit might not be 50k for insta sell, but it will be there. I craft everything from warriors forge at T5 for my laborers and 90% of the items sell in 10-12h with 25% or more profit. Now use buyorders while you sleep and buy a few mills worth of materials for crafting and easy 400-500k profit per day in 30 mins constantly. For farming idk if that is the case, i just throw my prem alts at the farming and it makes a profit, but they are premium soit mihgt be the extra gain which probably makes it profitable (not using focus points with cabbage at this time has been profitable for me easily).
      Additionally i have T6 houses with T6 laborers (blacksmihts) which give me extra 250k per day thru journals. Add all that up and you get quite a bit of income on daily basis which i could make it without premium and still rack up nice amout of silver in a day. So 750k per day (which is modest for 30-40mins of gametime) makes 20+ mil per month. The more money you have the faster it starts to create, i am atm investing it all back other alt islands which should accelerate this even further.
    • This whole thing started from Dc1a0 trying to convince noobies that it is worthwhile to craft without Premium, which it's not.

      It's a complete loss, as I originally stated.


      Now, you, him, or any number of crafters can claim "but I made a profit with X". Wow, 1 item out of 1000s that do not run at profit, but loss???

      As I already stated, most items run at a loss, especially the most commonly used items.

      The exception does not prove the rule. And it is a non-argument to start.


      Noobs should learn the advantage of premium and specialization. It won't take long to simply get the premium status and vastly improving efficiency.

      I presume you agree, which means I can be finished with this thread.