The entire Axe line is basically a worse version of the Sword line

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    • The entire Axe line is basically a worse version of the Sword line

      Now the title might be a bit wrong taken into consideration that the halberd is strong in GVG, but out of that, almost every weapon in the Axe tree line has a stronger counterpart in the Sword tree line. By that I mean that the entire axe line is massively under powered because the Sword line does almost every content in the game better than it does. The reason why I am comparing these two together is because they have some very similar E abilities, as well as giving similar stat such as health (both give 75) and damage.

      Lets start of first by comparing the rarest artifact weapon in the axe line, the bear paws, with the dual sword, which is an NON-artifact weapon. Both E abilities on the weapon allow them to dash and deal an AOE damage to an enemy; however, the dual sword is almost better in every way due to the fact that it is 1) way more consistent, 2) deals around the same damage, and 3) has a much lower cool-down.

      [this part is just a more in-depth explanation on why I think dual sword is better than bear paws] 1) The Dual Sword is much MUCH more consistent because you only need to land in the general vicinity of the enemy to deal damage, whereas the Bear Paws you have a skillshot AOE ability, which allows the opponent to dodge more easily, or having the awkward situation where you overshoot your skillshot. What makes this more awkward for bear paws is the if you have an enemy both in front and behind you, you can pretty much only hit one enemy because the bear paws is a 180 degree wide skillshot. Sure, the sword line needs to stack Q charges up, But to be honest, they are NOT that difficult to stack up, whilst giving you attack and speed buff. 2) The damage of both items is laughably the same when Bear Paws is arguably more difficult to hit. T4 bear paws does 522 + 180 true damage (30 bleed damage over 6 seconds). T4 Dual sword with max stacks does 556 + 6% of the enemies max HP in TRUE damage, too. We can kind of guess the damage of the Dual Swords by taking consideration that most bruiser and range dps have around 2000 to 2400 health. Which is around 120 to 144 true damage. So when you add the damage together you have the bear paws doing around 702 damage, while the sword does around 676 to 700 damage. Of course if we take armor into consideration the Bear paws does more damage, but literally a tiny bit more than the dual sword. 3) then you have the cooldown, which basically seals the deal for me that Dual sword is better than Bear paws, Dual Sword is on a 20 second cool down whereas Bear paws is on a 30 second cool-down. This allows Dual sword to actually deal more damage than Bear paws because you get to activate the ability more often.

      The same goes on for the infernal scythe (Soul artifact of the the axe line) vs Clarent blade where the damage of the Axe is a bit higher but the sword line is just infinitely more consistent with lower cooldowns. I could go on more in depth on the reason why I think its better along with all the Axe comparisons but it would just make the post too long. I could also add on that the Sword line contains an actually good ZVZ weapon, the Galatine, whereas the Axe line don't have anything close to it, but I digress.

      In terms of the W abilities between the Axe and Sword line, I would say that overall the Axe line does do more damage than the Sword line, but in return, the W abilities in the Sword line provides much more utility. The Parry strike makes you immune to damage while reflecting the damage done to you, all the while doing an AOE damage. The splitting slash gives Swords a pretty long AOE root ability. All of these W ability arguable make swords better in PVP. On the otherhand, the W abilities on the Axe do deal more damage, but, again, its pretty difficult to consistently achieve. For instance, the new, Axe ability gives you at most 40% damage buff if you can stack it up, but the difficulty of this ability is that you need to have at least 2 enemies for it to even stack up to this point, and because it's an AOE ability that channels you might not even get the full damage buff because the enemy might run away.

      [Basically the Summary] : If you haven't noticed, the running theme among the comparison between the Axe and Sword line is that Yes the Axe line does do more damage, but the amount of trade-off and requirements to do more damage is nearly not worth it. You have the sword line, where it is so much more flexible and consistent whilst dealing the around same amount of damage the the Axe line does. My suggestion is to either buff the damage of the Axe line, or literally rework the some of the E abilities. Or maybe I'm wrong and missing some important OP aspect of the Axe line, which I do not currently notice.
    • one thing that axe has that sword doesnt is adrenaline rush that makes axe a far more mobile weapon, and deadly chop that is an exceedingly powerful damage + pierce in small group pvp. Greataxe also makes for a good zergbuster in ~10 man situations especially when paired with knight helm, and can get in and out of trouble. I agree bear paw damage is pretty low.
    • You compare 2 weapon lines, with different assets / requirements / ........

      Just so you know for your dual swords vs bearpaws example:
      • dual sword is a skillshot too
      • bearpaws have a longer range
      • dual swords require 3 stacks to deal such damages.
      Now you also compare a relic artefact with normal weapon by tier instead of IP. You also didn't take in consideration the scaling.
      Axes and swords have different skillsets, making axes more mobile than swords usually since the axe doesn't need to stick to it's target to be useful. It's also 2 different gameplays.

      Basically you forgot half the elements (on purpose or not) to prove your point.
    • Gibba wrote:

      Gugusteh wrote:

      Axes and swords have different skillsets, making axes more mobile than swords usually since the axe doesn't need to stick to it's target to be useful. It's also 2 different gameplays.

      Basically you forgot half the elements (on purpose or not) to prove your point.
      What?It's more mobile in which terms? Philosophically speaking?
      You don't need to stick to your target to deal damages, swords are dependant on the enemy, if you cant stick to him, you will deal nothing. With the axe you are free to move around while keeping the pressure.
    • New

      Hey Gugusteh, really enjoy your videos and thanks for the feedback. Since your more experienced at pvp than me I'd just like to have some more feedback. So to address your points, which are

      Gugusteh wrote:

      You compare 2 weapon lines, with different assets / requirements / ........

      Just so you know for your dual swords vs bearpaws example:
      • dual sword is a skillshot too
      • bearpaws have a longer range
      • dual swords require 3 stacks to deal such damages.
      Now you also compare a relic artefact with normal weapon by tier instead of IP. You also didn't take in consideration the scaling.
      Axes and swords have different skillsets, making axes more mobile than swords usually since the axe doesn't need to stick to it's target to be useful. It's also 2 different gameplays.

      Basically you forgot half the elements (on purpose or not) to prove your point.
      I wanted to say that
      1) I never said dual sword isn't a skill shot, I just pointed out that bear paws was more difficult to hit.
      2) Bearpaw has longer range indeed but I feel that is only more useful if your chasing an enemy than if your trying to kill them. Plus dual words jumps at a range of 13m, and Bear paws at 15m. I think in a PVP situation that 2m won't be that big of a difference.
      3) I did point out that swords REQUIRE 3 stacks to be useful, But after watching some PVP videos, yours included, I felt like it wasn't that difficult to stack up whilst achieving the same if not better results than axes

      As for comparing weapon by tier instead of IP that was my fault, I didn't notice that, I just opened the destiny board and compared it. But what troubles in this comparison is that the Bear paws, which has higher IP, is doing the same damage as dual swords, which has lower IP. If anything, doesn't that prove that bear paws more underpowered?

      As for axes being more mobile, doesn't the q stack on swords grant movement speed, too? Would that not make swords just as mobile if not more than axes? Plus, the lower CD on E abilities on Carving sword and Dual sword make swords more mobile IMO. And I think its false to say that Axe doesn't need to stick on target to be useful, you still need to be near your target in order to hit your abilities in the first place. But you have more PVP experience and I'd like to hear the feedback from you.


      And thanks for the non-toxic, kind feed back from other people


      gmatagmis wrote:

      Bullshit.
    • New

      omeet wrote:

      Hey Gugusteh, really enjoy your videos and thanks for the feedback. Since your more experienced at pvp than me I'd just like to have some more feedback. So to address your points, which are

      Gugusteh wrote:

      You compare 2 weapon lines, with different assets / requirements / ........

      Just so you know for your dual swords vs bearpaws example:
      • dual sword is a skillshot too
      • bearpaws have a longer range
      • dual swords require 3 stacks to deal such damages.
      Now you also compare a relic artefact with normal weapon by tier instead of IP. You also didn't take in consideration the scaling.
      Axes and swords have different skillsets, making axes more mobile than swords usually since the axe doesn't need to stick to it's target to be useful. It's also 2 different gameplays.

      Basically you forgot half the elements (on purpose or not) to prove your point.
      I wanted to say that1) I never said dual sword isn't a skill shot, I just pointed out that bear paws was more difficult to hit.
      2) Bearpaw has longer range indeed but I feel that is only more useful if your chasing an enemy than if your trying to kill them. Plus dual words jumps at a range of 13m, and Bear paws at 15m. I think in a PVP situation that 2m won't be that big of a difference.
      3) I did point out that swords REQUIRE 3 stacks to be useful, But after watching some PVP videos, yours included, I felt like it wasn't that difficult to stack up whilst achieving the same if not better results than axes

      As for comparing weapon by tier instead of IP that was my fault, I didn't notice that, I just opened the destiny board and compared it. But what troubles in this comparison is that the Bear paws, which has higher IP, is doing the same damage as dual swords, which has lower IP. If anything, doesn't that prove that bear paws more underpowered?

      As for axes being more mobile, doesn't the q stack on swords grant movement speed, too? Would that not make swords just as mobile if not more than axes? Plus, the lower CD on E abilities on Carving sword and Dual sword make swords more mobile IMO. And I think its false to say that Axe doesn't need to stick on target to be useful, you still need to be near your target in order to hit your abilities in the first place. But you have more PVP experience and I'd like to hear the feedback from you.


      And thanks for the non-toxic, kind feed back from other people


      gmatagmis wrote:

      Bullshit.

      1) For some people it's easier, the only thing that makes it harder is the bug making the AoE go the other way around, but it has nothing to do with balance.
      2) 2m is actually important in a lot of situations (of chase/ temporisation/ run...)
      You can also ask your GF if this kind of difference doesn't matter :P
      3) the 3 stacks arent that easy to get (even if it is way easier that before), it requires a decent amount of time to be setup and makes the E an obvious thing. You expose yourself to a lot of counters: any purge / I frame / block / dash / invis / ...
      With the sword you have to stick on your target if you want to deal damages, with the axe you just setup your dots and ez (try to fight a bow with frost shot with both weapons, you'll see the difference). I know the mobility and AS of heroic charge give you direct MS, but if you dont stick to your enemy or get kited, you can't do shit.
      You have a whole different skillset too and balance also has to be different according to the possible combos.
      For the IP it's just so you can make better comparisons.

      PS: one of the reasons why bearpaws aren't played is because they aren't reliable (because of the bug)
      PPS: welcome to albion forum ;)
    • New

      I'll have to agree with OP. I feel like swords perform much better overall in all areas of content in this current meta.

      Damage is not everything, with the addition of Parry Strike I think the sword line is one of the top tier weapons in all content. The skill is literally soldier helmet, hunter hood and demon helmet put together that also deals damage in an AOE, the silence part can also be better in some cases than demon helmet due to it applying to everyone that got hit. You can say that the duration is much lower than the helmets themselves but you also have to remember that the skill is a lower cooldown. On top of that you are able to wear a different helmet which adds to the flexibility to the weapon.

      Lets take a common sword setup I have been seeing.
      Caving Sword/Dual Sword/Claymore
      Graveguard Helmet
      Cleric Robe
      Some rando boots

      In this setup you have a massive heal, two abilities that give you invulnerability, one of which reflects all damage and silences while dealing damage in an AOE. This adds sustain and outplay potential as well as defenses against nuke abilities. You also have heroic charges which give move speed that allows you stick to on the target if they decide to run away. In that situation a non-mobile weapon is pretty much dead. To top it off you also nuke ability/finisher that can double as a mobility tool.

      Lets look at axes, a common setup would be something like
      Greataxe/Halberd/Scythe
      Stalker Hood/Scholar Cowl/Hunter Hood
      Hellion Jacket
      Some rando boots
      In this setup you have an overtime heal that is stronger when you are lower health and the more targets you are fighting. Axe has 2 options for w skills Adrenaline Boost and Raging blades. Adrenaline boost best for mobility, raging blades great for damage. Finally Greataxe is spin to win, Halberd is a moderate clap that spreads bleed stacks and scythe is two double claps with a bleed.

      It's probably safe to assume that a lot of Albion players also play league of legends, and the concept of mechanical overload on a champion or utility buffs can be a huge thing that can turn a champion from bottom tier to the top. Having tools for multiple scenarios is the king in this game because you never know what the enemy brings. A sword has a lot of in-built tools. Looking at the example build. A Greataxe player will do fantastic against someone with no CC,but as soon as they meet one that has CC they suddenly don't have their e ability and if they have adrenaline boost as w they are only left with only their auto attacks and Q.

      Don't get me wrong axes are great, they can do a lot in every aspect of the game but they are just outclassed by swords.
      ZvZ Galatines are top tier weapons that can wipe clumps alone
      GvG Carving swords are top tier as they are core in the dive comps due to having a pierce that is combined with a burst
      Hellgates you have broadsword that is a top tier weapon due to short cooldown burst, and tools to combat many compositions with the interrupt.
      Open world/ganking you have Dual Swords, Claymore and Carving due to them all having nice mobility. While not the best ganking weapon they can hold up well

      Finally I could talk about capes, potions, food and other problems that the weapons have but this post is too long already.
    • New

      Swords have: slow, root, silence, mobility+purge immunity... edit: interrupt, ...

      Axes has: healing reduction...

      Yea sure, they are balanced :rolleyes:

      (slightly exaggerated to make a point)

      edit2: sword line has even better defence reduction (best in game, I believe)

      edit3: Also, saying that sword depends on stacks is kinda dick move because only one axe weapon takes advantage of the bleed stacks...
      IGN/Discord : Ravenar#2076
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      The post was edited 3 times, last by Ravenar ().

    • New

      Axes are having the advantage of the damage over time and the only thing that purges dots atm is the guardian helmet. Swords on the other hand are ezz purgeble and need to stick to the target all the time because of the short range and trying not to lose buffes. So axes are stronger against invisible ppl and kiters. But against mages the sword line is surely having the advantage because of the silencer and the reflect.

      I can send you a link where a dagger pair kills swords, so you can see how to play against swords as a melee:



      He also plays against axes, but struggled more against them because you literally can't escape the bleedings.

      So... I think axes and swords are pretty balanced.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Ghurayb ().