Why The GvG System Needs a Real Buff That's Not Rank, Energy, Season Point, Crystal GvG, Garbage Related - My Albion Online Story

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    • Why The GvG System Needs a Real Buff That's Not Rank, Energy, Season Point, Crystal GvG, Garbage Related - My Albion Online Story

      It all started one day at school, my friend told me about Albion Online in May of 2017. I bought the $30 founder pack and tried the game out, did some gathering and faming and then quit the game until it released; I maybe had a day or two of time played. The game released and my boys were all playing it, sadly I did not have the $100 founder pack so I had to wait 3 days to play. I joined Rest In Pieces and started as an ore gatherer in Fort Sterling and slowly made my way towards Caerleon since gear and items were hard to get. Anyone who plays Albion knows how much of a pain it is to get a healer, so I was that guy who said "sure I'll be the healer". I did Yellow Zone Hellgates back when you only got downed and didn't lose gear, boy that was hell when the game first came out because you had 5 teams fighting over one Hellgate; keep in mind I only had flash heal and played with Cleric Cowl and Assassin Shoes cause I was bad when I started. After I got some Fame to my name my group started to do Red Hellgates and those were fun back then cause you got a different team every HG just about. Here is a short clip of one of my first Red Hellgates(My Mic was muted in OBS): youtube.com/watch?v=QtURy7Moano&. If you couldn't tell I was really bad at using my abilities and over time I eventually got better at using them once I read about what they actually did. My first time on Albion Online TV I was really bad at GvGs: youtube.com/watch?v=87s9kGSfRHQ. I continued to do Royal GvGs to get better and make a name for myself: youtube.com/watch?v=_FnR8cVjk5M&t=. Back then these towers did not give energy, they were simply for resources/safe zone, guild pride, and the long term goal of what Albion had back then which was to beat your enemies for a tower that benefits everyone in your guild and alliance. Town Plots and Territories offer the greatest door to money which is resources: youtube.com/watch?v=kTVykVRg-gk. Without that Town Plot there I probably wouldn't have gathered there or as long as I could have. After a month or so my friends quit because it was time to go back to school or focus on work more, and the launch hype died down as the gold sellers DDOSed the server till people quit, I continued to play in my free time and eventually joined Exertion after I told Gluttony to disband ARCH(Image Below).

      Exertion offered me more territories, black zone content, a better player pool, better fame, better resource enchantments; the list could go on. I was a nobody when I joined Exertion and in a game like Albion having a reputation makes it that much more fun to play. I grinded to fame up the Holy Staff only to realize that in high tier GvGs players used the Nature Staff(I was still a little shitter). We didn't have fame credits back then, but boy I am glad those are in the game now. I eventually started to fame both Holy and Nature, but then Holy became the meta and I had the fame, but I just lacked the experience to do GvGs. I watched probably hundreds of GvGs by this time, because back then it was the best content and the end game. Back then GvGs were not IP capped ANYWHERE, there wasn't overcharging, scrims were not a thing in the game, and you fought for the territory to make a name for your guild. To most players back then and maybe still now; doing 5v5 GvGs are not fun and its a chore to them, but there was always someone willing to step up to the plate for a larger guild. I did more Red Hellgates, famed, gathered, and did some ZvZ. I think I started doing GvGs in Mercia 2-3 months after the game launched, most of them a loss or barely a win, but I kept on going. I knew if I put in enough time I could be on par with these other players to beat them in GvGs and I was never the first pick to be on a team. Jump forward a month and I'm doing a GvG at least every other night win or loss because it was fun and I had a whole guild supporting me to win so that they can all benefit. I would say the most fun I had was before Seasons were added in the game and Season 1 because if you wanted to own a territory you had to have a competitive drive otherwise someone else is taking those lands over. That briefly summarizes my Albion story on how I got to where I am today. Not to sound cocky, but every now and again someone says "Hey its Moneymike he was an Exertion OG GvGer back in the day" or "Wow you got a lot of fame". I know other people who have that reputation as well, sometimes its good and sometimes its bad, but it makes the game like no other. That's why Classic WoW is coming out soon because the current game doesn't offer what the players want. Well I am going to jump right into why GvGs need a buff after they have been nerfed over and over again.

      In Albion Online you need to have a strategy or set a goal otherwise the game will get stale; the game is after all supposed to be a sandbox. It is only smart to get a group of good players together to do a 5v5 GvG; that sounds like a pretty good strategy to me. With a 5v5 team you have to practice together and build synergy which takes time. You then need to get gear and then do the GvG. I think most people could consider it a part time job, which makes it not for everybody. Currently GvGs have been IP capped depending on the continent(This change renders overcharge useless), overcharge has been added in the game(still a stupid and useless mechanic), high end resources are no longer always in the territory, mages can be raided till you get nothing. So I ask myself why is it worth GvGing now? I don't think it is worth it to even own territories unless you use it for fame farms because you only give your enemies more ways to gain season points to pass you. I don't find Crystal GvGs to be that much fun because they really serve no purpose to an experienced player besides give some fame and money if you actually get a fight. Across the map doing GvGs got nerfed, between mage raiding and resources. Everyone right now has access to do a GvG, they can be diplomatic and have a larger guild get the 5 players a warcamp to launch from or join an already established guild. GvGs do not need a rework, they need to be buffed because they aren't worth the time to do for anybody in my opinion. I often wonder how the game would be without seasons, because I think players deep down wanted a scoreboard to show who is the best guild, but they didn't realize how meaningless it would become. I am posting this because 5v5 content is the core of this game and I also hope that I can inspire someone to come up with a solution to GvGs that can make everyone happy. Shoutout to Gluttony for being a pretty cool dude too.

      TLDR: The current system needs a buff not a rework; everyone has access to do GvGs it is just that they are unmotivated to do them or don't care to at all, and why punish the people who continue to put time in to be at the top.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by moneymike2g ().

    • As someone already posted on reddit, there can exist an implementation that GVGs are still the endgame, without being rendered totally useless as SBI plans to, and without having as much power as they did during the golden days of 3 teams dominating the whole map. Both playstyles (GVG and ZVZ/open world) are legit and fun. I just wish they could co exist without one being inherently stronger than the other.
    • I agree 100%

      I've done almost everything in the game, except for high-tier GVG, and really looked forward to that as a goal this season and next season. To me, Mercia GVG is the "Endgame" content. You fight a fair 5v5 battle, for territory ownership. Without the territories, the whole "crystal" gvg thing isn't worthwhile. Some worthless rewards, fame, silver, season rank, whatever? I don't need any of that, haven't needed it for about a year now.

      The complete overhaul and "we're completely removing GVG to replace it with ZVZ" just really irks me. I plan to migrate to another mmorgp, probably Classic WOW, coming out in a couple weeks.


      This is the second time SBI Devs fucked up big, first was the "friendly-fire?!?!" in response to mega-alliances. Now, the mega-alliances, still a major problem, are going to get BUFFED beyond comprehension??? No clue what the Devs are doing, except fucking themselves in the long-run. How can you build a game over 3-4 years, and then one day suddenly, "hey everybody, GVGs aren't going to mean anything anymore"??? Completely ridiculous, I can't believe how bad this decision-making and rationale of the Devs are.

      On top of all this, the Round Table, the content-makers, the vocal community, nobody has suggested a complete 100% overhaul. Nobody wanted it, except maybe ARCH, who doesn't GVG. Not even Blue Army called for any of this, despite it ensuring a buff to their alliance indefinitely.


      If the Devs of this game are that out-of-touch with reality, on top of failing month after month fixing basic bugs that have been in the game for years, on top of "oh hey guys 25% nerf to self-heal for healers", bullshit like that... I just have no trust left in this game or company.

      Very demoralizing, and I feel bad for all the top-end GVGers who aren't going to have much left to fight for, or any other upcoming GVGers, who again, aren't going to have any "End-Game" content left.


      What SBI Devs should have done, and I recommended many, many times, was/is 60% territory acquisition by GVG (current model), 10% by ZVZ, 10% by PVE, 20% by other means (economic, gathering, arena-tournaments, any creative ideas really, etc)

      Instead 100% GVG to 100% ZVZ???


      May as well turn that friendly-fire on...who cares anyway???
    • You guys are all missing the point here. In the end, SBI is a business company, focused on making the most profit they can from Albion. According to their stats only 1% of the playerbase participates in GvG. The other 99% do not. Guess which side is bringing the money in? I can tell you it's not the GvGers...many of the competent teams are supported by major alliances with deep pockets (millions or even billions of silver) that can pay for their gear and premium in perpetuity. No, it's the average 99% player who buys gold consistently so long as they have fun and can participate in the overall content.

      Territory control is content, arguably the most important content in the game. And right now 99% of the playerbase...the 99% that composes virtually all of SBI's profits...is locked out of that.

      SBI no doubt sees that the game population is decreasing drastically since free to play release. And, having access to all the game metrics, they most likely have a good handle on WHY the game population (And their profits) is falling. I'll bet you good silver that they're seeing 99% of the players who quit the game, taking their money with them, BEFORE they touch GvG content.

      This is their response to that. They want to make money. And I don't blame them. They need to pay their employee wages and make a relatively decent profit to keep this game alive and going.

      They need a way to rope in more players, and these changes are apparently their answer to that. The 1% of GvGers are complaining loudly, but in the end they don't fill SBI's paychecks. The 99% does.

      Edit: If you need an example of this already taking place, look at the new city plot auction system SBI is introducing to break the Carleon cartel. Do you think they care about a small cartel of players that have so much silver they never will need to pay a single cent to SBI? Or the average players who cannot afford these high tax prices and are eventually put off enough to quit the game? The latter are the guys who SBI makes money from, and their changes are trying to keep them from leaving.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Fenrael: Edit: See Edit ().

    • moneymike2g wrote:

      I think most people could consider it a part time job, which makes it not for everybody.

      Yes! :) Clan wars in World of Tanks is similar, and it was fun for a while, but I burned out. Part of the problem was the grueling, relentless schedule.

      I wish it were possible to design territorial wars without schedules. I realize schedules are there to help people who can't be on all the time, but I wonder if there's another way to solve that problem without incurring big downsides.
    • kreeshak wrote:

      As someone already posted on reddit, there can exist an implementation that GVGs are still the endgame, without being rendered totally useless as SBI plans to, and without having as much power as they did during the golden days of 3 teams dominating the whole map. Both playstyles (GVG and ZVZ/open world) are legit and fun. I just wish they could co exist without one being inherently stronger than the other.
      its not totally useless. you'll have to use GvG to evict annoying hideouts, and crystal GvGs are getting super fucking buffed. crystal GvGs will be hella good for GvGers, and make it more open to be even more tiered, instead of this insane system of 1% owning everything because they've poop socked for multiple years lmfao.

      plus more content for ZvZ guilds is always good, as it will be help with guild and game player counts.
    • Fenrael wrote:

      You guys are all missing the point here. In the end, SBI is a business company, focused on making the most profit they can from Albion. According to their stats only 1% of the playerbase participates in GvG. The other 99% do not. Guess which side is bringing the money in? I can tell you it's not the GvGers...many of the competent teams are supported by major alliances with deep pockets (millions or even billions of silver) that can pay for their gear and premium in perpetuity. No, it's the average 99% player who buys gold consistently so long as they have fun and can participate in the overall content.

      Territory control is content, arguably the most important content in the game. And right now 99% of the playerbase...the 99% that composes virtually all of SBI's profits...is locked out of that.

      SBI no doubt sees that the game population is decreasing drastically since free to play release. And, having access to all the game metrics, they most likely have a good handle on WHY the game population (And their profits) is falling. I'll bet you good silver that they're seeing 99% of the players who quit the game, taking their money with them, BEFORE they touch GvG content.

      This is their response to that. They want to make money. And I don't blame them. They need to pay their employee wages and make a relatively decent profit to keep this game alive and going.

      They need a way to rope in more players, and these changes are apparently their answer to that. The 1% of GvGers are complaining loudly, but in the end they don't fill SBI's paychecks. The 99% does.

      Edit: If you need an example of this already taking place, look at the new city plot auction system SBI is introducing to break the Carleon cartel. Do you think they care about a small cartel of players that have so much silver they never will need to pay a single cent to SBI? Or the average players who cannot afford these high tax prices and are eventually put off enough to quit the game? The latter are the guys who SBI makes money from, and their changes are trying to keep them from leaving.
    • Random Ideas with inspiration from EVE Online if GvG are removed entirely from territory control. This has probably been stated before since I've noticed many eve players play this game.
      I think the big issue people are having is that in many other games with similar mechanics still leave room for small veteran groups to hold their own with superior equipment and tactics.
      In eve I believe this is normally Implants, Bigger Ships, Tankier Ships, Faster Ships, Long-Range Ships, and effective defensive structures.

      As it stands I believe a 5 man group will not be saved even if they are wearing 8.3 comparted to the 50 man wearing 4.1.
      Mage Towers can easily be dove.
      The only thing to compete against ZvZ is more ZvZ.
      There's no extra item or character buffs besides enchanting and food that would give you an edge over the opposition. They are also easily obtained.

      Here are some change Ideas.
      Structures/Terris could physically be attacked and destroyed at any point but have to be attacked 2 times.
      The first attack would halfway destroy the Terri and force it into an invulnerability window set by the defender sometime within the next 24 hours.
      This allows for repair and defense setup for the next battle.

      You can garrison some members in the Terri and use something such as the Mage tower to target and kill attackers.
      Mage tower would ideally receive massive buffs able to almost 1 shot anyone under a certain tier of gear.
      The tower buffs could grow higher with the higher tier area you are defending.

      Higher Tier equipment would need to be harder to obtain, cost more, but receives huge mobility, damage, hp, defense, and CC buffs depending on the piece you are wearing.
      Ideally it would be hard for current ZvZ groups to provide these to the masses because of their requirements and price.
      There needs to be other character buffs only usable by higher tier players who've unlocked the ability to use the item and are able to purchase it.
    • If you keep in mind that businesses (Nearly all MMOs) need to make money to stay afloat, then following the money will give you a good idea of SBI's intentions. Look at the history of the past major changes:

      Free to play? Roped in the largest number of Albion players in recent memory, from 300 average on Steam charts to 6000 average.

      Solo dungeons? Group dungeon improvements? A PvE means of keeping those players, as SBI knows the average player plays more PvE than PvP.

      Fishing?

      The city plot auction sytem? Already explained in my previous post.

      And guess what's coming next? PvE Raid content.

      Notice the trend? All this is catering to the 99% of players who play the game, trying to retain them and their money.

      SBI is trying to stay afloat here, seeing that none of the previous changes are microtransaction exploiting. The Free to play change is particularly telling. They're trying to keep the game alive, and through it their jobs.

      Throughout all of this, from early in the game, 5v5 GvGs have been the main means of territory control. 1% of the playerbase has held 99% (The players that makes SBI money) hostage. SBI has set its sights on that, knowing that throughout all that time Albion was failing, GvG territory control wasn't helping retain players, and SBI likely has good evidence that it's driving away players (money) instead, since most players who reach the blackzone quickly realize that their contribution and role is minuscule compared to the superstar GvGers. These changes are their answer. They want to open up endgame content to more people, thus keeping them playing the game and bringing in the money.

      Edit: In short, SBI's decisions are not being driven by a bunch of random guys at a virtual round table (it's funny how many people believe this), but by their management and accountants staring at the levels of profit dropping month after month along with the playerbase. Ironically, it's the pocketbooks of the zerg keeping this game running for the GvGers and hardcore players who don't even have to pay for premium anymore. If the day comes when the enough of the zerg quits the game due to being irrelevant compared to GvGers (The game most likely almost reached this point before Free to Play), then the GvGers and hardcore players will find all their months of time spent getting good at this game going up in a puff of smoke along with Albion itself.

      The post was edited 18 times, last by Fenrael ().

    • Fenrael wrote:

      You guys are all missing the point here. In the end, SBI is a business company, focused on making the most profit they can from Albion. According to their stats only 1% of the playerbase participates in GvG. The other 99% do not. Guess which side is bringing the money in?
      Only a fraction of people play in League of Legends tournaments, lets remove them, they clearly don't bring in any money you guys! Hey only 0.1% of players are guild leaders, lets remove guild roles and make everyone equal! 99% of accounts actually never do T8 dungeons, lets remove those too! And while we're at it lets also remove the diamond guild rank, after all only 1% of guilds make it there.

      If you'd taken just 1% of the time it took you to write all that nonsense to think about the issue, you'd understand how ridiculous the point you've copied from some reddit bum sounds.

      And 99% of players doesn't mean 99% of the gold income, Pareto principle applies here. I've paid for 3 months of premium with real money before just out of respect for the devs, but I've bought a year of premium with silver recently and I don't see myself ever paying for anything in this game with real money because SBI has lost all the respect I had for them.

      The game is going down the "cater to casuals" drain that has ruined every single modern MMO and it is going to end up an empty shell of a game, unless the direction drastically changes again. And I have nothing but disdain for M&S who applaud this.
    • Strawman arguments don't impress me. League of Legends tournaments bring in millions of viewers and makes Riot Games lots of money both through ads and publicity. SBI games does not make nearly as much, or if anything at all, off of GvGers in terms of public revenue. Even their twitch viewer counts are atrocious.

      Guild leaders help manage dozens or even hundreds of members making the game fun for everyone, or at least carefully controlled chaos. They interact in gameplay with hundreds of other players under their wing. Guess who interacts with GvGers? Nobody other than their ingame financers. It's just them vs each other.

      You're just one guy. 1 year of premium from one guy does not equate to hundreds of lost players per month. Especially players who are likely buying gold to fund their gameplay, not just premium, usually because they have jobs and are unable to devote the time to making silver ingame (just paying cash is much easier). Remember that GvGers and many black zone players don't even pay anything because of how lucrative black zone farming is (Something that's actually perpetuated by GvG monopolies). You yourself said you're no longer buying premium with RL money anyways.

      And lastly, SBI would not be making this change unless they had a good reason. And profit consideration is most likely that reason considering they're a business. In the end, money is king, not your concept of "casuals" and perceived superiority. None of what you said would matter if SBI went bankrupt and closed down, which it very nearly has before.

      Ironically, the MMOs that are surviving and prospering almost all "cater to casuals" as you said, because that's the only way they're making enough money to be worth operating in the first place. The only real exception I can think of is Eve, which this game was modeled after, but in Eve there is no such thing as a handful of GvGers determining the territories of thousands of other players.

      The post was edited 10 times, last by Fenrael ().

    • Fenrael wrote:

      Strawman arguments don't impress me. League of Legends tournaments bring in millions of viewers and makes Riot Games lots of money both through ads and publicity. SBI games does not make nearly as much, or if anything at all, off of GvGers in terms of public revenue. Even their twitch viewer counts are atrocious.

      Guild leaders help manage dozens or even hundreds of members making the game fun for everyone, or at least carefully controlled chaos. They interact in gameplay with hundreds of other players under their wing. Guess who interacts with GvGers? Nobody other than their ingame financers. It's just them vs each other.

      You're just one guy. 1 year of premium from one guy does not equate to hundreds of lost players per month. Especially players who are likely buying gold to fund their gameplay, not just premium, usually because they have jobs and are unable to devote the time to making silver ingame (just paying cash is much easier). Remember that GvGers and many black zone players don't even pay anything because of how lucrative black zone farming is (Something that's actually perpetuated by GvG monopolies). You yourself said you're no longer buying premium with RL money anyways.

      And lastly, SBI would not be making this change unless they had a good reason. And profit consideration is most likely that reason considering they're a business. In the end, money is king, not your concept of "casuals" and perceived superiority. None of what you said would matter if SBI went bankrupt and closed down, which it very nearly has before.

      Ironically, the MMOs that are surviving and prospering almost all "cater to casuals" as you said, because that's the only way they're making enough money to be worth operating in the first place. The only real exception I can think of is Eve, which this game was modeled after, but in Eve there is no such thing as a handful of GvGers determining the territories of thousands of other players.
      you pretty much just proved that you are clueless and at the same time dont know how gold works, congrats
    • SBI doesn't need money.

      If they did, they would focus on cosmetics, housing system, a cash-shop, etc.

      The upcoming game-changes represent the direction the Lead developers and owners of the game, want the game to go.


      It's a huge mistake, in my opinion, not only because you just alienated the 'core' hardcore and elitist gamers who have built Albion for 2-3+ years, but also show a complete lack of information and communication between game developers and the overall community, including the Round Table, none of whom ever even mentioned the idea of a complete (ZVZ) game-change.

      It's another mistake, because players want Elitism and something 'hardcore' to work toward. The "crystal" offerings are not even close. GVGers would not settle for that, when, the past 2 years of this game GVG dictated the map, blackzone, and prestige of BZ guilds and alliances. This overhaul simply doesn't make any sense, much akin to the "friendly-fire" debacle.

      The playerbase wants a NERF of mega-alliances, not a huge, huge buff, as these changes would lead toward.


      Furthermore, where's the balance or give-and-take? Why not change 20% or 50% or 80%, why does it have to be a complete nullification?
    • Theat wrote:

      It's a huge mistake, in my opinion, not only because you just alienated the 'core' hardcore and elitist gamers who have built Albion for 2-3+ years, but also show a complete lack of information and communication between game developers and the overall community, including the Round Table, none of whom ever even mentioned the idea of a complete (ZVZ) game-change.
      That is a good point that I didn't consider. The hardcore players have sustained Albion up until this time, and it is an insult to throw them under the bus like this as you said. Fully removing GvG from territory control 100% does this, spitting in their devotion to the game. Though the other elements you said illustrate my point that right now the experience of a large portion of the playerbase is being affected by a handful of players. A balance as you said would be much better, even 50/50 would make both sides happy.

      Edit: "The upcoming game-changes represent the direction the Lead developers and owners of the game, want the game to go." Why would the lead developers and owners do a complete 180 turn on their original concept of a majority PvP game? This does seem strange to me, as they're alienating their original playerbase in hopes of catering to and attracting a larger number of "casual" players. And it's leading to a lot of arguments and chaos as we've seen here. There's no guarantee it will work, in fact it could even backfire as both the old players leave and new players aren't attracted/retained by the changes. Then the game is definitely dead.

      In hindsight it does seem like a mistake to me to do a complete removal instead of a compromise, though I can understand their motivation. Thank you for telling me this.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Fenrael ().

    • moneymike2g wrote:

      Back then these towers did not give energy, they were simply for resources/safe zone, guild pride, and the long term goal of what Albion had back then which was to beat your enemies for a tower that benefits everyone in your guild and alliance. Town Plots and Territories offer the greatest door to money which is resources

      moneymike2g wrote:

      So I ask myself why is it worth GvGing now?
      What changed beside having T8 in T8 zones now?
      Now you have even more incentives to take territories than before, with the mages and the access to the crystal GvGs.
      The T8 placement now allows a more natural progression, to go for this zones when you can actually face the best teams of your region giving you a greater reward there.
    • Gugusteh wrote:

      moneymike2g wrote:

      Back then these towers did not give energy, they were simply for resources/safe zone, guild pride, and the long term goal of what Albion had back then which was to beat your enemies for a tower that benefits everyone in your guild and alliance. Town Plots and Territories offer the greatest door to money which is resources

      moneymike2g wrote:

      So I ask myself why is it worth GvGing now?
      What changed beside having T8 in T8 zones now?Now you have even more incentives to take territories than before, with the mages and the access to the crystal GvGs.
      The T8 placement now allows a more natural progression, to go for this zones when you can actually face the best teams of your region giving you a greater reward there.
      What do you mean what changed? You've been here the whole time, you've seen the same nerfs to territories that everyone else has.
    • Theat wrote:

      The complete overhaul and "we're completely removing GVG to replace it with ZVZ" just really irks me. I plan to migrate to another mmorgp, probably Classic WOW, coming out in a couple weeks.
      Our goal is to actually buff GvG as an activity while at the same time dealing with the issues that the current GvG system faces.

      The current GvG system has a set of issues, namely:
      • it does not feel very rewarding (due to balance reasons, individual territories cannot generate too many passive benefits. And: even if you capture one, very often an S-tier team will show up the next day and take it back)
      • it has a very high snowballing component to it
      • it has extremely high barriers to entry
      • only a very small percentage of the player base (significantly less than 1%) get to take part in it.
      The actual 5v5 GvG fights are great and a lot of fun - we want to have more of them in the game than we do right now.

      The information that is flowing around right now does not give a full picture of our plans. And these plans are also very much still in flow as we are actively talking to the player base and are making revisions and improvements to the concepts that we are considering.

      We'll publish a detailed update for the community soon.