NDA - Dive the healer

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    • This is all because healing is OP to start with, which is a common game design flaw. Healing should be weak, and alternative support abilities strong.

      Overpowered healing means a heal target can tank damage from multiple enemies, which means you are forced to attack the healer first, which means they spam heal themselves instead, which leads to this self-heal sickness as a bandaid solution.

      Overpowered healing just makes the game less fun for everyone. No one enjoys "hunt the healer", not the DPS doing it, and not the healers always being targeted.
    • Dc1a0 wrote:

      owensssss wrote:

      ye healer was never meant to be a self sustain fatigue class, so this is in line with Dev vision. dont care how many points you stacked into it. smite does a lot of dmg dont try to pity around your sustain healer build. thats not what youre "suppose" to do
      So, you're saying it's not truly a sandbox after all, And you're not supposed to mix and match equipment to fit your play style as SBI advertised Albion was supposed to be? Lots of sandboxes have allowed for fatigue classes as they know there are players that like the chance to win epic battles that one-shot mindset players couldn't win.
      It’s never been a true sandbox, I can’t think of any game that’s a true sandbox, There’s always a limitation somewhere. Btw you spamming self heals running around while slowly chipping an enemies hp has never been an “epic win battle”
    • owensssss wrote:

      It’s never been a true sandbox, I can’t think of any game that’s a true sandbox, There’s always a limitation somewhere. Btw you spamming self heals running around while slowly chipping an enemies hp has never been an “epic win battle”
      I didn't say an epic win battle, I said winning and epic battle. I understand the mindset that most people want to be Goliath, however, the satisfaction of slaying a Goliath as a David has its place too.

      Edit: Yes, I realize the analogy is flawed since I'm talking against one-hits. I just couldn't think of better type examples.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Dc1a0 ().

    • Just to put the changes a bit more in perspective. What are we trying to do with

      We are still prototyping the exact mechanics of the Self Healing Sickness. The goal is to achieve the following:
      • Reduce the sustain of Solo Healers
      • But no reduction of Healing output in group fights
      In the first iteration the Self Healing Sickness applies after constantly reapplying Q-spells on yourself (with different values for Nature and Holy)
      Currently the Nature Staff needs to apply 15 Qs on him and Holy 25 Qs on him, before the Sickness kicks in.

      So it is not, that the healer can't heal himself up, if jumped. The intention is that it only kicks in when he is solo and tries to outsustain for too long.

      Since this will nerf solo Nature Staffs sustain, we are currently looking into how we best rework Poison Thorns entirely. So soloing with Nature Staff will have less sustain, but more damage output.

      This is the intention for the change, we will ofc make alterations depending on playtests.

      Cheers,
      Retro
    • Retroman wrote:

      Just to put the changes a bit more in perspective. What are we trying to do with

      We are still prototyping the exact mechanics of the Self Healing Sickness. The goal is to achieve the following:
      • Reduce the sustain of Solo Healers
      • But no reduction of Healing output in group fights
      In the first iteration the Self Healing Sickness applies after constantly reapplying Q-spells on yourself (with different values for Nature and Holy)
      Currently the Nature Staff needs to apply 15 Qs on him and Holy 25 Qs on him, before the Sickness kicks in.

      So it is not, that the healer can't heal himself up, if jumped. The intention is that it only kicks in when he is solo and tries to outsustain for too long.

      Since this will nerf solo Nature Staffs sustain, we are currently looking into how we best rework Poison Thorns entirely. So soloing with Nature Staff will have less sustain, but more damage output.

      This is the intention for the change, we will ofc make alterations depending on playtests.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      in what time?

      Or

      What is needed to reset?

      A w on something else?? Or a q on something else ? Or a W on self? Or E? Or boots?
    • Retroman wrote:

      Just to put the changes a bit more in perspective. What are we trying to do with

      We are still prototyping the exact mechanics of the Self Healing Sickness. The goal is to achieve the following:
      • Reduce the sustain of Solo Healers
      • But no reduction of Healing output in group fights
      In the first iteration the Self Healing Sickness applies after constantly reapplying Q-spells on yourself (with different values for Nature and Holy)
      Currently the Nature Staff needs to apply 15 Qs on him and Holy 25 Qs on him, before the Sickness kicks in.

      So it is not, that the healer can't heal himself up, if jumped. The intention is that it only kicks in when he is solo and tries to outsustain for too long.

      Since this will nerf solo Nature Staffs sustain, we are currently looking into how we best rework Poison Thorns entirely. So soloing with Nature Staff will have less sustain, but more damage output.

      This is the intention for the change, we will ofc make alterations depending on playtests.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      Reworking Poison Thorns does seem like it could help re-balance them. I have been thinking and have a few ideas if you're looking for them.

      On the sickness itself, In what interval would it be applying 15 and 25 Q's to initiate, and how long is the sickness supposed to last? I think those are the key points most are worried about.
    • Hollywoodi wrote:

      And how do you solo fame farm then??

      Just curious, you implement the SRD..

      Or take a break after some mobs??

      Because if you solo FF you permanently have 2-3 q up..

      On top then u need another passive because passive gives run speed on q spam
      I don't, I just do 2-3 between mob groups usually and up through most purple chest+
      boss fights. But, then again, my character's build is different than what I see listed in the meta.
    • Do devs play Holy at all???

      When a Holy player gets dove, he has to self-heal spam or die. He can't run around like a Nature staff can and potentially live. So this is a much larger nerf to Holy small-scale pvp than to Nature. Nature can still effectively do what it's always done, minus potential against NPCs.

      Holy players are straight-up fucked if they get snared or 2v1. Because they can't run. And now they can't self-heal until a cooldown comes up or a teammate peels. There won't be enough time. This means Holy players have to play much further backline than ever before. Nature can always stay in a fight because they are constantly kiting, which is double the damage mitigation than any Holy player.


      This also fucks Holy and Nature solo or 2v2 HG as mentioned above. There's really no reason for this nerf, other than to piss off whatever sadistic players still want to Heal in small scale pvp, or God-forbid, want to go Solo.

      You've pretty much screwed Healing solo-viability, which is atrocious, concerning there are very few benefits for catastrophic costs. The one benefit of healing was that it was a strong solo contention. If you take that away, which this Nerf does, then healing becomes more of a pain and group-focused than ever before.


      Punishing healers in general, at this stage in the game, is just a very, very bad idea in my opinion. Holy is dead in small-scale PVP. Nature is almost necessary for any content below 10-man groups.
    • I can understand a 10% self-heal nerf, but 25% is way too overboard.

      TLDR:

      Holy is DOA, worthless in any group below 10-man. Holy is ONLY viable in ZVZ 20v20 and larger.

      Nature is still strong, and basically will be the heal of choice sub-10-man. Nature is viable in PVP AND ZVZ.


      Solo-Healers are nerfed to death with this game change, 2v2 Holy death, 2v2 Nature still viable. RIP.
    • Retroman wrote:

      So it is not, that the healer can't heal himself up, if jumped.
      I understand that's what you're saying, but it doesn't detract from the underlying sentiment - any heals the healer has to put on themselves is now much more costly than a heal cast on another party member.

      Essentially, it's forcing an already busy healer to consider whether or not it is worth healing himself given a scenario, not only for the opportunity cost compared to healing a party member, but to deter the sickness.

      In my opinion, the current iterations do not give us enough information to really pass my initial rash statement, but so far, I'd still dive a healer every time. Perhaps if the CC buffs stated make up for it.
    • Holy is going to have to play so far backward in sub-10 groups that it's borderline useless without self-heal.

      Holy will be hit the hardest, and lots and lots of players are going to die as a result of this huge Nerf.


      Nature is still viable in small-scale pvp as it can constantly kite around on the frontline and survive.

      It will have to throw more self-heals than usual, but still keep players and the group up.

      The Cloth-CC buff is going to help Nature even more so. So Nature gets an overall BUFF in small-scale PVP.

      Because now Nature kiting is even stronger than ever before. Most players won't even be able to touch a Nature healer that kites well.
    • This is my biggest concern currently. The changes that are announced seem to be like that..

      It is raining.. rain is bad, I take out rain.. shit everything is dry noe..oh well, be good adapt or you not hardcore

      Let's look at the scenarios:

      Nature solo fame farm gets dived:

      Needs to Q forever or is dead, and a fight is more than 15 q..
      If it is a 1 on 1 dive nature will W and attack, does attack reset it? If not, then it is the end of solo nature

      Holy solo fame farm (usually not happening, they failed to implement that..)
      If it is a 1 on 1 dive, you better not use the speedcast build unless smite resets it..

      Group fight aka HG:
      Nature can easily, while q ticks put a q on group member, done no issue

      Holy: no way if you give one q away you dead..

      So conclusion:

      This change makes sense under 2 condition:

      1) it just affects nature - there was never a problem with running holy anyway

      2) Nature W (thorns) breaks the sickness

      And if you need a fix for nature anyway, no need to rocket science

      In the past, players had less life and less movement speed. You nerved thorns, you never adapted to life + movement buff

      Simply revoke the change while giving nature heal sickness that breaks on W thorns while not touching holy and you done

      Happy to help, even I am just low 500 nature and holy and not at the round table..
    • Take a holy and 2 bows or one blackhands one light crossbow

      Typical 2 hg scenario

      And now see how long holy lives..

      Really .. try it

      If it is more than 30 seconds the 2 dps are completely incompetent..

      And now imagine healing sickness where you need waste your heal on your partner to prevent Sicknesses

      On the other hand, as GVG is dead now, there is basically no need for balance any more..