Ganking and how it ruins the game.

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    • Ganking and how it ruins the game.

      My argument:

      Ganking by its nature promotes bullying, theft, and homicide. Ganking is not PvP due to one party not being a willing participant. In the current system, it allows and promotes a harmful gaming style. It allows one or more players to roam around killing and stealing from other players with very little costs or consequences. It ruins the play experience for the person being ganked.

      I understand this is an open PvP game, but the consequences of this behavior need to be greater than those currently existing. In real life, these behaviors come with severe punishments. The reason for these punishments is because of the amount of harm it brings to civilization. It is my belief that allowing ganking with very little consequence will inhibit growth for the game and will drive current players away from the game.

      I have a couple of solutions I would like to propose.

      1. Negative reputation should force a player to be flagged as full PvP all the time. If a player is seeking to run around killing players who are not flagged for PvP, then the fair consequence would be to make them always subject to the same.
      2. As negative reputation increases then market place tax should increase. This should be a dramatic increase. In the real world, thieves do not get full value for the items that they steal.
      3. Alliances and guilds should be able to set a threshold on their territories that causes players with negative reputation to be kill on site to the npc guards of those territories. This would allow organizations in the game to choose whether to promote ganking or not.
      4. As negative reputation increases your character should appear on the mini map. Not sure if its possible, but high levels of negative reputation could also cause you to be searchable.

      There may be short term rewards for allowing this abhorrent behavior in the game, but in the long term these players will either leave due to boredom or they will drive away players such as me. Ganking in the long term is not fulfilling and being ganked creates anger and resentment. These negative results will not result in a long term benefit for the game.

      Sincerely,

      Balaster Woodwalker

      P.S. Until there is some change to this system, I will no longer support this game with my hard earned money. I have cancelled my subscriptions. I may continue to play this game as a farming/island sim but my interests in participating in the open world are greatly diminished.
      [b]Yoda[/b]: ...Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they...
      [b]Luke[/b]: ... Is the dark side stronger?
      [b]Yoda[/b]: No... Quicker, easier, more seductive.
    • Balaster wrote:

      Ganking is not PvP due to one party not being a willing participant.
      You're pre-warned when you enter "PvP" areas.

      Black Zone you are a willing participant in PvP activities.

      I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of the post.

      Edit: I read a little more, I'm a liar. The game created a liar. I'd rather kill on a video game than in real life.
      Ricochet | Recruitment | Discord
      “Plant Earth’s #1 Racial Excuse Coordinator"

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Pow ().

    • Consider that since the gankers are not playing the way you are, that you could stop considering them to be fellow players.

      Just think of the gankers as extremely intelligent NPCs. We could never afford the price of a game with the AI backend to provide NPCs of that calibre. Treat them as an 'other' who are not a human part of the game that you are playing, and the tension goes away. Dehumanize them and consider them just part of the game meta, and the stress you feel may be reduced.
    • Dygenn_II wrote:

      Consider that since the gankers are not playing the way you are, that you could stop considering them to be fellow players.

      Just think of the gankers as extremely intelligent NPCs. We could never afford the price of a game with the AI backend to provide NPCs of that calibre. Treat them as an 'other' who are not a human part of the game that you are playing, and the tension goes away. Dehumanize them and consider them just part of the game meta, and the stress you feel may be reduced.
      This does not make any sense. I would never design a game where 10 NPCs suddenly gather at an entrance/exit and target a single player. I would never design a game with groups of roaming NPCs whose purpose was to kill the players and loot them. A game with this as a design feature would never make it past concept phase.


      xcruciful wrote:

      If you don't like PvP.
      Stay in Blue and Yellow zone, you re safe there.
      No-one force you to go to red and black zone.
      I love PvP. What I don't like is a mechanic that rewards players who bully, kill other players for no other purpose than its easy and rewarding.

      As another option, how about making PvP flagged characters subject to friendly fire. If you're pvp flagged then you are even attackable by your own party members. If you want real "hardcore pvp" then you should be all for a betrayal mechanic.
      [b]Yoda[/b]: ...Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they...
      [b]Luke[/b]: ... Is the dark side stronger?
      [b]Yoda[/b]: No... Quicker, easier, more seductive.
    • LMAO ok ok... OP are you on drugs?

      Like people come to this game to escape boredom by actually having the feeling to be griefed at any moment. This is the main reason why this game is so niche and will stay for a long time with a good and sustainable playerbase.

      Goodbye ur not a big loss honestly. Go back to dragonica or thoses kind of game if the feeling to be griefed is unberable for you.
    • Well, ganking is part of the game and needs be there..

      Some things that are suboptimal..

      1) I am using widescreen resolution and my friend not, but both have offscreen tags activated

      I see them going invis he does not. I am very sure that widescreen is an advantage in vision..

      2) Super ganks: leapfrogging is okay, but the burning man is a bit over the top

      3) trash rate.. If people that was ungrouped more than 2 minutes get hit by damage from different sources, trash rate should increase.. depending on the amount of sources. If 5 or more sources trash rate should be 100. This includes hit from cc

      4) portal regions have 2 or 3 connects to the next zone on each side

      This 4 changes would remove the absurd low risk reward of big group ganks..

      But - the zergs mostly sit at the round table. I haven't seen any discussion with the devs outside this elite..

      And the people of the RT are there, because most lead zergs and speak for many ..

      At least that's my personal impression, surely not objective, as I favor skilled gaming that is mostly opposite of Zerg play


      There the shotcaller counts and the zerg needs execute

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hollywoodi ().

    • I am just about the biggest carebear in the BZ. All I want to do is gather up my loots or my ores and meander back to town with them. If I get caught I just die. Every time. As much as 6-10 times in a day lately. It's fine thought because it is trivial to make more silver/fame than the marginal cost of some gear. You need to just detach from the idea of ownership in your gear and treat your gear package as an investment that you hope to gain a return with. It is just quarters for the pinball machine.

      If you get rid of ganking this game becomes unplayable. The only thing that even makes it a game is that all of a sudden some people can show up and start stabbing you, and then run off with your stuff. It is the heart of content in this game. Otherwise you should just go play Cookie Clicker or Farmville.

      It doesn't ruin the game for anyone. It is what makes the game a game at all. Otherwise it is just an exercise in clicking things.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Piddle wrote:

      I am just about the biggest carebear in the BZ. All I want to do is gather up my loots or my ores and meander back to town with them. If I get caught I just die. Every time. As much as 6-10 times in a day lately. It's fine thought because it is trivial to make more silver/fame than the marginal cost of some gear. You need to just detach from the idea of ownership in your gear and treat your gear package as an investment that you hope to gain a return with. It is just quarters for the pinball machine.

      If you get rid of ganking this game becomes unplayable. The only thing that even makes it a game is that all of a sudden some people can show up and start stabbing you, and then run off with your stuff. It is the heart of content in this game. Otherwise you should just go play Cookie Clicker or Farmville.

      It doesn't ruin the game for anyone. It is what makes the game a game at all. Otherwise it is just an exercise in clicking things.
      ^^^^ My favourite post of the week by far. Thank you.
    • Balaster wrote:

      This does not make any sense. I would never design a game where 10 NPCs suddenly gather at an entrance/exit and target a single player.
      When I read this I had one game in mind, serious Sam. (the original).


      Balaster wrote:

      As another option, how about making PvP flagged characters subject to friendly fire.
      No seriously, what the fun in that. its a PVP game. Thats why Ive been playing it for as long as I did.

      (Keep in mind I'm a gatherer. I like the blood rushing when I see those gankers come and that relieve when I made it out. )
    • This game become almost impossible to since free to play launched, people are to lazy to gather and kill any gatherer they can.
      I can hardly get out the portal to go gather or get back without dying since that day, it's kinda ruining the game, theres no profit anymore in gatherering only big loses.
      specially because the T8-sets and tools are insane expensive in resources or on the auctionhouse.

      Even with a bloodletter, misthorn and 4 best defensives + fort sterling cloak i got pulled back 6 times in a row by graveguard armor (next to the portal trying to enter) and died after 40 seconds of strugling, blok, root, invis, shield, T6 horse, nothing kept me alive for the 10 meters i had to go....

      You gankstuf is way OVERPOWERED and escape sets are an expensive joke...

      I think i can spend my money better then on a gathering/grind-game, where you can't even fucking do that....
    • i cant understand all this complains
      just get good in your gathering stuff, others do the same
      remember that you need all this deaths to sell your materials, they would be worthless without this
      this game became easy mode for gatherer with mount cd and speedbuff on mounts
      why you still complain? you must be fully blind if u die all day
    • draxionas wrote:

      This game become almost impossible to since free to play launched, people are to lazy to gather and kill any gatherer they can.
      I can hardly get out the portal to go gather or get back without dying since that day, it's kinda ruining the game, theres no profit anymore in gatherering only big loses.
      specially because the T8-sets and tools are insane expensive in resources or on the auctionhouse.

      Even with a bloodletter, misthorn and 4 best defensives + fort sterling cloak i got pulled back 6 times in a row by graveguard armor (next to the portal trying to enter) and died after 40 seconds of strugling, blok, root, invis, shield, T6 horse, nothing kept me alive for the 10 meters i had to go....

      You gankstuf is way OVERPOWERED and escape sets are an expensive joke...

      I think i can spend my money better then on a gathering/grind-game, where you can't even fucking do that....
      The problem is that the gathering sets and other player defenses are so strong that the game was too punishing to people trying to gank in 1s and 2s, and so they adapted by ganking in 5s and 10s. What you are seeing is essentially the power of players ability to escape being so high, that the required numbers to take down a target seem absurd, and you aren't wrong, but the culprit isn't the gankers.

      Go out and try to gank someone solo that isn't just riding a T3 horse with T4 gear, and see how easy it is. Then decide for yourself. I'll die in a dungeon to 1s and 2s, but in the open world, as bad as I am, it generally takes 2-5 people to corral me and take me down.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • draxionas wrote:

      This game become almost impossible to since free to play launched, people are to lazy to gather and kill any gatherer they can.
      I can hardly get out the portal to go gather or get back without dying since that day, it's kinda ruining the game, theres no profit anymore in gatherering only big loses.
      specially because the T8-sets and tools are insane expensive in resources or on the auctionhouse.

      Even with a bloodletter, misthorn and 4 best defensives + fort sterling cloak i got pulled back 6 times in a row by graveguard armor (next to the portal trying to enter) and died after 40 seconds of strugling, blok, root, invis, shield, T6 horse, nothing kept me alive for the 10 meters i had to go....

      You gankstuf is way OVERPOWERED and escape sets are an expensive joke...

      I think i can spend my money better then on a gathering/grind-game, where you can't even fucking do that....

      The risk/reward for gankers does seem to be imbalanced in their favor. Some games have short-term stun immunity the first time you get stunned. I've wondered if that might be a good thing in Albion.

      I also wish the gathering tools were actual weapons with extra escape abilities. :)

      At any rate, I've been both a black zone gatherer and ganker, and the biggest advantage a gatherer has is being near an allied territory. So far, I've only been successfully ganked once as a gatherer, and that was because I let my guard down a little too far away from a terri.

      I consider the gear I'm wearing to be the distance I can travel if gankers suddenly appear, and I modify my gathering behavior accordingly. Always consider your escape routes, especially multiple routes, depending on possible appearance locations of gankers.

      A few more tips:

      - An alliance is extremely helpful, as many players will report locations of gank squads. Being without allies in the black zone is bad news!
      - A Swiftclaw is a good mount for gathering (especially in more expensive gear): you won't be overweight if you lose the mount, and it's hard to run down a Swiftclaw.
      - As a gatherer, I recommend joining a gank squad occasionally, just to learn how it looks from the gankers' perspective. That's helped me a lot gathering!
      - Any sign of an enemy, mount up and run. You never know if that one guy is the lead element of a gerg.
    • Piddle wrote:

      I am just about the biggest carebear in the BZ. All I want to do is gather up my loots or my ores and meander back to town with them. If I get caught I just die. Every time. As much as 6-10 times in a day lately. It's fine thought because it is trivial to make more silver/fame than the marginal cost of some gear. You need to just detach from the idea of ownership in your gear and treat your gear package as an investment that you hope to gain a return with. It is just quarters for the pinball machine.

      If you get rid of ganking this game becomes unplayable. The only thing that even makes it a game is that all of a sudden some people can show up and start stabbing you, and then run off with your stuff. It is the heart of content in this game. Otherwise you should just go play Cookie Clicker or Farmville.

      It doesn't ruin the game for anyone. It is what makes the game a game at all. Otherwise it is just an exercise in clicking things.
      I don't believe in removing ganking. I just want consequences equal to the damage they cause. If they are serious about a life of crime then they should be subject to some sort of reprisal system.

      I'm guessing that most arguing pro ganking are those who enjoy the low risk, high reward system in place.

      Games built on a pay to play model do not go free to play because they are succeeding. It costs money to pay developers, animators, coders, and administrators. If the game is not producing enough revenue to support the staff and have something left over for R&D then it will fail.

      This game is not built to be a niche game. It's a blend of MOBA and MMO with an EVE style economy. Each of these has pros and cons and building a blend that works is a monumental task. I am trying to give some constructive advice.

      If you're pro ganking, then please present a solid reason that it creates a positive environment.

      gmatagmis wrote:

      PS.
      Escaping gankers is one of the most adrenaline attraction in the game.
      It makes heart beat and feel alive.
      Some ppl dump a ton of money for such entertainments.
      I don't know any player that wants to be ganked.
      By your logic, someone who's being robbed should be thankful because of the adrenaline rush from being robbed.

      I can get this same rush in GvG and Hellgates where it is skill vs. skill instead of 10 vs.1
      [b]Yoda[/b]: ...Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they...
      [b]Luke[/b]: ... Is the dark side stronger?
      [b]Yoda[/b]: No... Quicker, easier, more seductive.