Ganking and how it ruins the game.

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    • Dankmos wrote:

      the game itself pushes farmers to the red zones to get higher tier material you cant say oh just stay out the red zone I mean the game basically says I have to go out there
      I'll complete your statement.

      Pushing farmers to the red zones to get higher tier mat but the risk vs reward will be proportionate in adequation. If you have not the gust to take the risk you can still farm safely but the reward will be low.

      You're welcome
    • Dankmos wrote:

      the game itself pushes farmers to the red zones to get higher tier material you cant say oh just stay out the red zone I mean the game basically says I have to go out there
      It doesn't say that at all. It says buy from the market and no need to go out there.


      Dankmos wrote:

      ganker runs up hits my mount and it disappears and I'm over weight and can do nothing fix this issue
      This issue can be fixed with thinking. If thinking is a problem then buy from the market. Gathering is extremely dull in any case. Last time I did it, it drove me to chase the gankers in the hope they would finish me off. But they ran away.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Player112 ().

    • Neef wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Neef wrote:

      Roccandil wrote:

      Neef wrote:

      0h and your good gear that cost a lot of silver would be WORTHLESS without the gank system everything would be WORTHLESS.
      How much gear gets trashed in ganking vs. ZvZs, HGs, and GvGs? Sure, gear might not worth quite as much if ganking didn't exist, but it wouldn't be worthless.
      how would you ZVZ without open world pvp my dude cant have both that leaves HG GVGs and yes worthless
      Who said anything about preventing open world PvP? Ganking could be discouraged without removing ZvZs (declarations of war, for instance).
      Well I'm pretty sure if there was a war system people would still gank, you can't have ZVZ without ganking inless you don't allow small groups. So your saying if guild A declares war on guild B that guild A wouldn't gank guild B? hmm I don't think so. Declaring war would not work because the martkets would crash there would be to much resources because no gather will want to be in a guild that is at war and if there not in a guild at war then well they can just gather 24/7 without being killed.

      Sure, guilds at war would gank each other; that makes sense. Seems odd to me, though, that we all become outlaws for being at war in the black zones. Why can't we have lawful wars?

      At the same time, if we had lawful wars, then killing someone with whom you're not at war could carry a stronger downside than it does now, even in the black zones.

      I'm thinking it might be better if ganking were more the province of warfare between massive alliances, leaving newer (and thus neutral) guilds/players to roam a little more freely in the black zone.
    • Balaster wrote:

      My argument:

      Ganking by its nature promotes bullying, theft, and homicide. Ganking is not PvP due to one party not being a willing participant. In the current system, it allows and promotes a harmfull gaming style.
      Thats the type of game albion is. Its called a hardcore game. Killing other players and stealing their stuff is an integral part of the game. This is a sandbox, meaning thay you play how you like.

      You want to be a honorable player? Go ahead.

      You want to be a criminal and a scounderl? Go ahead.

      This is in no way harming the game. On the contrary, it is what keeps the game alive, it creates content for the players. You do understand that Albion is a niche game? It is made mostly for the hardcore audience.


      Balaster wrote:

      It allows one or more players to roam around killing and stealing from other players with very little costs or consequences. It ruins the play experience for the person.
      This is the line thay shows how noob you are and how little knowlege of the game you have. You say that ganking comes with little consequences or very little cost? Have you even gone ganking? I sugest you try to go gank. Lets see how long you last.

      Gankers dont really live very long. Normally they tend to kill 2-3 players and then a guild comes and kill them all. In redzones its even worst because all blues will gather to attack any red they see. Its actually hard to gank in redzones.

      The consequences of ganking is that a huge group that outnumbers them by a lot will come to kill them. Ganking atracts a lot.of attention from guilds.

      Most activities in the game are more profitable than ganking when you take into account the risks of ganking.

      Balaster wrote:

      I understand this is an open PvP game, but the consequences of this behavior need to be greater than those currently existing. In real life, these behaviors come with severe punishments. The reason for these punishments is because of the amount of harm it brings to civilization. It is my belief that allowing ganking with very little consequence will inhibit growth for the game and will drive current players away from the game.
      Albion is not real life. And you are extremely wrong about everything you wrote here.In albion, ganking does not bring harm. Its the other way around, The more gankin the better. Here is why:

      Albion has a player based economy. Items need to get destroyed with a very high frequency for a player economy to work. If items dont get destroyed(trashed) or lost, crafters lose their jobs, because the supply of equipment will be too high. Then gatherers lose their jobs because crafters will stop buying resources. This also causes items to become extreemly cheap, making it hard for players to make silver.

      Even with the ZvZ and the current ganking frequency, items are still not getting destroyed fast enough. So, imagine if there were no ganking...Economy would be horrible.

      I stopped reading your coment here because no changes are needed to punish gankers any more. If ganking gets very heavy punishments then it will hurt the game badly. Albio is not a carebear game.

      Read This !!Important!!!!

      The moment you enter a pvp zone you are actually concenting to pvp. To yes, ganking is pvp. The first time you enter a zone you get a huge message warning you about it.
    • Holoin wrote:

      Thats the type of game albion is. Its called a hardcore game. Killing other players and stealing their stuff is an integral part of the game. This is a sandbox, meaning thay you play how you like.
      You want to be a honorable player? Go ahead.

      You want to be a criminal and a scounderl? Go ahead.

      This is in no way harming the game. On the contrary, it is what keeps the game alive, it creates content for the players. You do understand that Albion is a niche game? It is made mostly for the hardcore audience.



      WRONG ... We return to the same error, again and again and again ...
      Albion is currently not a hardcore game, It is a "Lamer game".

      The difference between the two definitions is huge.
      Hardcore game or hardcore gamer need 2 basic things: TIME AND SKILLS ,
      -Albion online reward so much association with the others guys ,this is good, but dont reward adequately the real skills , in this game we have 80% association , 20% skills...
      We need kill gatherers? yes, gatherers create resources -> create money , we need a oppossite force (gankers) , this is right
      But why you see nice or good 5+ guys killing[ alone not gatherer players] ?this need a change. So much reward , little risk.

      -Albion online reward time? Maybe , in fame terms albion reward the time , about crafting and gathering albion reward time, yes this is right.

      Tell me how a game "Hardcore" can reward n00bies players, newbies player just for bring number and abusive a broke mechanic , ANTIZERG SHIELD NEED CHANGES in function a lot things , how a hardcore game reward so much the numbers and still rewarding less or nothing the skills , open world in albion is TRASH
      Come on! we can see groups diving soloplayer dungeon , we can see 10 more guys ganking 1 guy... This is rat, but more relevant , this is absurd and frustrating,we need more soloplayers gankers , so much! and less squad gankers players , reward skill !! stop reward rats! is so hard understand this?

      Im a player bringing 100m pvp fame , 70m are for pvp 1vs1 and pvp 1vs5+... Im a not carebear , im understand the game,Im very skilled veteran player and I can skip or fight vs gankers, but the 90% of the new or casual gamers will cant fight vs this stupid and broke mechanic... I repeat one and a lot time more! WE NEED ANTIZERG SHIELD CHANGES ,make it more powerful , add characteristic in function " Gear type" , and large etc etc.

      This game is good but need huge changes .
      Come on turn it in a really hardcore game and reward intelligence, skills , knowledge , add more obstacles to GANKERS squads and rat players , rat must still in the game but you need force them to improve ,
      that's the essence of a hardcore game, get knowledge, get perfection skills and reward these qualities , hardcore games dont must reward "numbers"

      The post was edited 7 times, last by marg93 ().

    • marg93 wrote:

      .. We return to the same error, again and again and again ... Albion is currently not a hardcore game, It is a "Lamer game".

      Hardcore game or hardcore gamer need 2 basic things: TIME AND SKILLS ,


      This game is good but need huge changes .
      Come on turn it in a really hardcore game and reward intelligence, skills , knowledge , add more obstacles to GANKERS squads and rat players , rat must still in the game but you need force them to improve ,
      that's the essence of a hardcore game, get knowledge, get perfection skills and reward these qualities , hardcore games dont must reward "numbers"

      I agree With you. Skill should reward more than numbers.

      So, lets take a look at these solo activities:
      • Gathering T7/T8 resources = more rewarding than ganking. Requires time and skill.
      • Solo T6+ random dungeons = Gives waay beter rewards than ganking. Not a lot of skill involved, but i say equally risky that ganking.
      • Buying cheap/selling high = a lot more rewarding than ganking. Can be a bit risky(you could end up losing a bit of silver).
      • Crafting/refining = when done right, rewards waaay lot more than ganking. Requires searching for a lot of info, opening some spreadhseets(or asking some one who already did the math)
      • Farming = takes time to develop, but can be as rewarding as ganking...with 0 risk involved.
      • Scams = this is a very rare one, but those with originality and some really good skills on making people trust them...can become extremely rewarding.
      • Faction Solo = do T5 group dungeons in yellow zones but as a solo player and faction flagged... waay more rewarding than ganking.
      • Solo ganking = Yes, this one is pretty hard. Solo ganking in the blackzones is not for the faint of heart. However, there is the posibility of a huge jackpot...but requites a lot of skill.
      What I mentioned above is basically all activities that can be done solo in the game. All are more rewarding that group ganking.

      Ganking is one of the lowest profiting activities in the game(Only when you have high specs in the other activities). So yea, I think Albion fits your definition of Hardcore game.

      Only noobs think that ganking offers too much reward for little risk.

      You know that the veteran gankers even want some weapons nerf and mounts buff due to how hard it is to catch a skilled player? I think ganking is in a good spot right now. Right amount of risk and reward.

      Also, It is logical that group activities gives more rewards. Their scale is larger, finding your team takes more time than going in alone, and the risks are higher.

      Thats why hellgates are more rewarding than most solo activities. (Even if some players only run...running is also a skill).

      Albion is probabily one of the most balanced sandbox games out there when it comes to open world full loot with a player based economy.

      And the devs are currently on the right track to make a better, more balanced end game.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Holoin ().

    • Make sure you're getting ganked in gear that you can afford to lose. I make millions of silver just by staying in the city anyway (buy order -> refine -> craft -> sell order) - but you'll need to do some basic math for this to work.
      Also don't get too attached to your gear, don't treat it like an important milestone that you need to protect at all costs. It's something temporary that you need to be able to replace constantly.
    • Balaster wrote:

      My argument:

      Ganking by its nature promotes bullying, theft, and homicide. Ganking is not PvP due to one party not being a willing participant. In the current system, it allows and promotes a harmful gaming style. It allows one or more players to roam around killing and stealing from other players with very little costs or consequences. It ruins the play experience for the person being ganked.

      I understand this is an open PvP game, but the consequences of this behavior need to be greater than those currently existing. In real life, these behaviors come with severe punishments. The reason for these punishments is because of the amount of harm it brings to civilization. It is my belief that allowing ganking with very little consequence will inhibit growth for the game and will drive current players away from the game.

      I have a couple of solutions I would like to propose.

      1. Negative reputation should force a player to be flagged as full PvP all the time. If a player is seeking to run around killing players who are not flagged for PvP, then the fair consequence would be to make them always subject to the same.
      2. As negative reputation increases then market place tax should increase. This should be a dramatic increase. In the real world, thieves do not get full value for the items that they steal.
      3. Alliances and guilds should be able to set a threshold on their territories that causes players with negative reputation to be kill on site to the npc guards of those territories. This would allow organizations in the game to choose whether to promote ganking or not.
      4. As negative reputation increases your character should appear on the mini map. Not sure if its possible, but high levels of negative reputation could also cause you to be searchable.

      There may be short term rewards for allowing this abhorrent behavior in the game, but in the long term these players will either leave due to boredom or they will drive away players such as me. Ganking in the long term is not fulfilling and being ganked creates anger and resentment. These negative results will not result in a long term benefit for the game.

      Sincerely,

      Balaster Woodwalker

      P.S. Until there is some change to this system, I will no longer support this game with my hard earned money. I have cancelled my subscriptions. I may continue to play this game as a farming/island sim but my interests in participating in the open world are greatly diminished.
      I like your post & respect the suggestions you made.

      I would like to speak with you in game as I started a new guild called 'ARENA PLAYERS' which focuses on PVP in a controlled enviornment where you do not lose the gear you worked hard to acquire, but you also don't get a super high advantage over players with weaker gear, as the game auto balances the item power of each player. Each team has at least 1 healer. Arena is pretty fun and I agree with your opening post completely.

      Albion is a really good game, and actually other mmos use similar systems that you suggested, and they do so for good reason.

      Most of the people who likely responded to your post with apathy are ignorant fucks who can only gank to get pks, can't actually wina 1v1 duel and are the real cowards. They mostly don't understand the game outside any meta they are cloning off someone else, because they are simple minded pieces of shit who don't value originality or actual fair sportsmanship.

      Albion's awesome tho
      » ᴘ ᴇ ɴ ɢ ᴜ ɪ ɴ • s ɴ ɪ ᴘ ᴇ ʀ « bit.ly/pokerface-albion
    • Dygenn_II wrote:

      Consider that since the gankers are not playing the way you are, that you could stop considering them to be fellow players.

      Just think of the gankers as extremely intelligent NPCs. We could never afford the price of a game with the AI backend to provide NPCs of that calibre. Treat them as an 'other' who are not a human part of the game that you are playing, and the tension goes away. Dehumanize them and consider them just part of the game meta, and the stress you feel may be reduced.
      THAT'S RETARDED

      you're basically saying

      "lie to yourself and you'll feel less stresed"

      is that what you do? LMFAO

      secondly

      by being gankers they dehumanize themselves.
      » ᴘ ᴇ ɴ ɢ ᴜ ɪ ɴ • s ɴ ɪ ᴘ ᴇ ʀ « bit.ly/pokerface-albion
    • Balaster wrote:

      Dygenn_II wrote:

      Consider that since the gankers are not playing the way you are, that you could stop considering them to be fellow players.

      Just think of the gankers as extremely intelligent NPCs. We could never afford the price of a game with the AI backend to provide NPCs of that calibre. Treat them as an 'other' who are not a human part of the game that you are playing, and the tension goes away. Dehumanize them and consider them just part of the game meta, and the stress you feel may be reduced.
      This does not make any sense. I would never design a game where 10 NPCs suddenly gather at an entrance/exit and target a single player. I would never design a game with groups of roaming NPCs whose purpose was to kill the players and loot them. A game with this as a design feature would never make it past concept phase.

      xcruciful wrote:

      If you don't like PvP.
      Stay in Blue and Yellow zone, you re safe there.
      No-one force you to go to red and black zone.
      I love PvP. What I don't like is a mechanic that rewards players who bully, kill other players for no other purpose than its easy and rewarding.
      As another option, how about making PvP flagged characters subject to friendly fire. If you're pvp flagged then you are even attackable by your own party members. If you want real "hardcore pvp" then you should be all for a betrayal mechanic.
      Exactly.

      He never said he doesn't like PvP.

      He said, "Ganking isn't PvP" for fuck sakes.

      I bet you Balaster PvPs in other mmos.

      Albion has many things that could do with a fix a patch or an overhaul.

      The ganking is one of these things.

      Here's a perfect example for anyone who still has a functioning brain



      killed by KUSHKINGS gank when i just came out of arena



      1v1 one of the members of KUSHKINGS when i saw them in town the same night
      » ᴘ ᴇ ɴ ɢ ᴜ ɪ ɴ • s ɴ ɪ ᴘ ᴇ ʀ « bit.ly/pokerface-albion

      The post was edited 2 times, last by PenguinSniper ().

    • Owlsane wrote:

      LMAO ok ok... OP are you on drugs?

      Like people come to this game to escape boredom by actually having the feeling to be griefed at any moment. This is the main reason why this game is so niche and will stay for a long time with a good and sustainable playerbase.

      Goodbye ur not a big loss honestly. Go back to dragonica or thoses kind of game if the feeling to be griefed is unberable for you.
      you're a fucking joke, you know why?

      you said: Like people come to this game to escape boredom by actually having the feeling to be griefed at any moment.

      then you said: Go back to dragonica or thoses kind of game if the feeling to be griefed is unberable for you.


      So you're justifying griefing/ganking, but then you're saying you don't want to get griefed at any moment, you want to escape boredom without that.
      » ᴘ ᴇ ɴ ɢ ᴜ ɪ ɴ • s ɴ ɪ ᴘ ᴇ ʀ « bit.ly/pokerface-albion
    • Piddle wrote:

      I am just about the biggest carebear in the BZ. All I want to do is gather up my loots or my ores and meander back to town with them. If I get caught I just die. Every time. As much as 6-10 times in a day lately. It's fine thought because it is trivial to make more silver/fame than the marginal cost of some gear. You need to just detach from the idea of ownership in your gear and treat your gear package as an investment that you hope to gain a return with. It is just quarters for the pinball machine.

      If you get rid of ganking this game becomes unplayable. The only thing that even makes it a game is that all of a sudden some people can show up and start stabbing you, and then run off with your stuff. It is the heart of content in this game. Otherwise you should just go play Cookie Clicker or Farmville.

      It doesn't ruin the game for anyone. It is what makes the game a game at all. Otherwise it is just an exercise in clicking things.
      That's actually bullshit, because Arena exists.

      You say you lose your gear, 6-10 times a day. Actually, not everyone would enjoy that, or want to psychologically detach from their equipment.

      If you've played any other mmo where your gear is something you can only even use when you've spent a year levelling up to use it, that's not something you want to just throw away or keep replacing. That's not necessarily good game design at all.

      The reality is, in Abion people collect rare mounts and even buy custom skins for them.

      But normalize the concept of not collecting armor and weapons.

      Fuck that.

      i would prefer to collect armor and weapons than mounts and skins.
      » ᴘ ᴇ ɴ ɢ ᴜ ɪ ɴ • s ɴ ɪ ᴘ ᴇ ʀ « bit.ly/pokerface-albion
    • PenguinSniper wrote:

      Piddle wrote:

      I am just about the biggest carebear in the BZ. All I want to do is gather up my loots or my ores and meander back to town with them. If I get caught I just die. Every time. As much as 6-10 times in a day lately. It's fine thought because it is trivial to make more silver/fame than the marginal cost of some gear. You need to just detach from the idea of ownership in your gear and treat your gear package as an investment that you hope to gain a return with. It is just quarters for the pinball machine.

      If you get rid of ganking this game becomes unplayable. The only thing that even makes it a game is that all of a sudden some people can show up and start stabbing you, and then run off with your stuff. It is the heart of content in this game. Otherwise you should just go play Cookie Clicker or Farmville.

      It doesn't ruin the game for anyone. It is what makes the game a game at all. Otherwise it is just an exercise in clicking things.
      That's actually bullshit, because Arena exists.
      You say you lose your gear, 6-10 times a day. Actually, not everyone would enjoy that, or want to psychologically detach from their equipment.

      If you've played any other mmo where your gear is something you can only even use when you've spent a year levelling up to use it, that's not something you want to just throw away or keep replacing. That's not necessarily good game design at all.

      The reality is, in Abion people collect rare mounts and even buy custom skins for them.

      But normalize the concept of not collecting armor and weapons.

      Fuck that.

      i would prefer to collect armor and weapons than mounts and skins.
      why would you collect armor and weapons? they're pretty generic and not that hard to obtain...
      coming from other games to albion you need to adapt your way of thinking to this new way of playing, not adapt the game to your own taste.
    • draxionas wrote:

      This game become almost impossible to since free to play launched, people are to lazy to gather and kill any gatherer they can.
      I can hardly get out the portal to go gather or get back without dying since that day, it's kinda ruining the game, theres no profit anymore in gatherering only big loses.
      specially because the T8-sets and tools are insane expensive in resources or on the auctionhouse.

      Even with a bloodletter, misthorn and 4 best defensives + fort sterling cloak i got pulled back 6 times in a row by graveguard armor (next to the portal trying to enter) and died after 40 seconds of strugling, blok, root, invis, shield, T6 horse, nothing kept me alive for the 10 meters i had to go....

      You gankstuf is way OVERPOWERED and escape sets are an expensive joke...

      I think i can spend my money better then on a gathering/grind-game, where you can't even fucking do that....
      well to be perfectly honest, you can make money from gathering, but red and black is a waste of time in my opinion.

      Yellow zone doesn't make a lot of silver? Just gather for longer then. Lol. In Korea, some of the mmos have players actually grinding for a year or more to get something, so grinding is easy in albion if you have any experience on korean mmos.

      Let's be honest, I buy a lot of gold, or have done in the past, yet I can achieve similar things from gathering in yellow zone. Pay for my premium from in game activity.

      Like seriously, who needs black zone? What is it for? Hahahahah
      » ᴘ ᴇ ɴ ɢ ᴜ ɪ ɴ • s ɴ ɪ ᴘ ᴇ ʀ « bit.ly/pokerface-albion
    • CallMeGosu wrote:

      i cant understand all this complains
      just get good in your gathering stuff, others do the same
      remember that you need all this deaths to sell your materials, they would be worthless without this
      this game became easy mode for gatherer with mount cd and speedbuff on mounts
      why you still complain? you must be fully blind if u die all day

      Piddle wrote:

      If I get caught I just die. Every time. As much as 6-10 times in a day lately.
      so CallMeGosu, you're basically saying Piddle is blind LOL
      » ᴘ ᴇ ɴ ɢ ᴜ ɪ ɴ • s ɴ ɪ ᴘ ᴇ ʀ « bit.ly/pokerface-albion
    • Fusionbomb wrote:

      Balaster wrote:

      I'm guessing that most arguing pro ganking are those who enjoy the low risk, high reward system in place.
      I'm T8 gatherer in every resource, never been in a large alliance, and have been Glorious reputation for well over 80% of my Albion career.
      I'm in favor of ganking.

      I think part of your problem is comparing this game directly to real life. If we wanted it to be more realistic, we wouldn't have magic spells and rare mounts to traverse copy/pasted landscapes.
      Let me explain what a 'strawman' is.

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

      A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.


      So here's the deal.

      You are claiming that Balaster's opening post is problematic solely because it compares the game directly to real life, and THEN, you criticize the direct comparison to real life.

      Balaster's problem with Albion is not necessarily a direct comparison to real life, it is specifically the lack of deterrent from ganking playstyle in Albion, where other games have systems that act as a deterrent to anything defined as villainous play.

      Revelation Online is just one example of an mmorpg that has a different system to 'villanous play'. You can kill a player so it is also open-world pvp, but if you do, there are deterrents that kick in.


      PK or Slayer mode & Peace mode in Revelation Online




      Slayer Mode what to do about Slayer Value in Revelation Online

      » ᴘ ᴇ ɴ ɢ ᴜ ɪ ɴ • s ɴ ɪ ᴘ ᴇ ʀ « bit.ly/pokerface-albion

      The post was edited 1 time, last by PenguinSniper ().