Land Auction System Changes

    • Woin wrote:

      It doesn't matter anymore.
      Torches lit, pitchforks sharpened, people are no longer afraid of the monster. And the monster will be killed. Regardless of the consequences.
      It empowers the monster after a couple of shitty months. This is what every non shop owner fails to see, because all they see is 'Damn these fuckers, asking 90% fee for my craft'. They don't look ahead, cuz why would they. They dont do bankroll management, they dont see the numbers, they never had enough money to even buy a shop. Half the people buying shops dont even make a profit from them. Look at Martlock, I can name 20 shops that are running a fat loss this month. 'Oh but thats cuz they suck, they just shitty businessmen, system still broken, please fix'.

      We risk facing but 2 scenarios: Very very rich players solidifying their monopoly and chaotic multi-ownership nonsense with every shop owner losing money. Same shit as always, fixed prices that are too high, or the race to the bottom where no profit can be found for anyone.

      Which one of these 2 scenarios do you think will prevail in the end? Exactly, and this will make that one scenario even a little easier now.
    • AdgarTheMighty wrote:

      So if I bid like 30mln and I lose the auction, will I get my money back or not? Cuz irl auction gives money back if u lose
      Yes, if your bid does not win, you will get your money back.

      The difference with this change is that previously, if you had the winning bid, you actually did not have to pay your full bid as a price, instead, you only paid what the second highest bidder had plus 1 silver. This made it much easier for plot owners to defend their plots by overbidding. Overbidding now is no longer possible, which will make it much much harder to maintain a monopoly/oligopoly on a city.
    • Adrivan wrote:

      Neef wrote:

      Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      t.

      thisismine wrote:

      Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      That doesnt change that he is right.

      you will go back to where every shop owner lost money
      They would only lose lots of money because the existing shop bids are over inflated to maintain monopoly prices. Would you lose as much money if you didn't bid 300mil on multiple shops just to keep the monopoly on 1 shop going? I think you forget that you are raising usage fees in staggering amounts because you want to keep the monopoly going.
      Its a lost discussion because people wont accept what plot owners say ever.you will see plot prices going down, fees going down, and shopowners losing money due to the plot cost and the stone repair cost is way bigger than the income.The problem is that there is a few plot owners who know the reality, and the angry masses who dont understand the economy behind who scream for blood.
      So SBI bows to that, and people simply have to watch how it becomes a norm for plot owners to lose money on their plot, but purely have them because they have a dream of running a shop thinking it is close to decent business.

      But you and the other masses will not accept what plot owners say so now the ignorant masses will get their way and we will be shot back to where we were with the shops a year ago.

      /f
      yes I do not understand why caerleon has 200% tax when Bridgewatch is around 50% tops, Why can bridgewatch shop owners keep lower prices and not lose money but caerleon can't its simple dn't own 20 plots where you have to bid 200mil on each one. 1 person shouldn't own more then 1 or 2. Being that people own 5 to 10 or even more makes it harder to make money because you need to keep all your shops. kk thanks bye....
      That doesn't make much sense though, if you make profit with 1 shop you should be able to make even more profit with 10, assuming they get on average similar usage.
      How does it not make much sense, If you want to keep all your shops you would have to bid on them all and in some cases having 10 shops could cost you your profit because you might have to bid higher then normal to keep them so if you have 10 you will need to place a 100mil bid on all your shops where if you only had 1 or 2 you only would have to watch 1 or 2 plots so you wouldnt need to bid a crazy number to keep it you could manage them a lot better. Having more then 1 or 2 will take a lot more time to make sure you bid the right amounts and if someone tries to take your plot you wont need to bid high on 10 different ones just 1 or 2. There is a big difference here and all I'm saying is it would be cheaper in time and money to keep track of 1 or 2 then 10 or 15.
    • Neefo wrote:

      How does it not make much sense, If you want to keep all your shops you would have to bid on them all and in some cases having 10 shops could cost you your profit because you might have to bid higher then normal to keep them so if you have 10 you will need to place a 100mil bid on all your shops where if you only had 1 or 2 you only would have to watch 1 or 2 plots so you wouldnt need to bid a crazy number to keep it you could manage them a lot better. Having more then 1 or 2 will take a lot more time to make sure you bid the right amounts and if someone tries to take your plot you wont need to bid high on 10 different ones just 1 or 2. There is a big difference here and all I'm saying is it would be cheaper in time and money to keep track of 1 or 2 then 10 or 15.
      You said if you have 1 shop you can make profit, right? Ok, so let's say to keep that 1 shop you bid 100m and the shop makes 101m in revenue (after paying for food and repair costs). That means you have 1m profit with 1 shop.
      Now, if you own 10 shops, you bid 10 x 100m = 1b silver, but the shops maxe 10 x 101m in revenue = 1.01b, so now you have 10m in profit. More shops = more profit.
    • The system is currently set up so that if you don't get attacked you make tons of money, and if you get attacked (and still win the auction) you still pay a decent price because of the 2x bonus. This lends itself super well to the cartels because they own all the plots and only a few plots can viably be attacked every auction, so they pay a bit high for a few plots but then win many plots for small sums. On average, they pay very little for their real estate.

      This proposed change means that attacks won't matter anymore in terms of your profit; you place your defense bid at a level you deem acceptable and then you will pay this "rent" every time. If someone wants to wrest the plot from you they are all but guaranteed to lose money, because the defender is very unlikely to bid so little that he would have 100% ROI.

      Better solution:
      - Keep the Vickrey style (2nd bid is the amount paid), but remove the owner 2x bonus.

      This way the owner can still defend his plot by bidding over his profitability level, but he actually has to front (and risk losing) the full cash instead of only half. So if he gets attacked and wins, he will lose substantial money over the month, but if he doesn't get attacked he will have profit. This makes it so that profits are still possible, but so are losses (which is not the case now). So if a plot is worth 40M, he can't just bid 40M and relax that some sucker now has to pay 80M for it; he has to bid 80M himself if he wants to be safe, and risk actually winning it for 75 and heavily overpaying for the plot. So he won't, he'll bid 45M so he can still probabilistically earn a return but he might lose 0- 4.9M if someone bids near his limit.

      The 2x bonus, while a seemingly nice idea to maintain continuity, is an overly powerful tool for the cartels because it halves the amount of capital they need to deploy and gives them no downside to just stacking massive bids on everything.


      If SBI feels that they do want the owners to maintain a bonus, fine, but make it small, like 1.2x not 2X.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Drajnul ().

    • Adrivan wrote:

      Neefo wrote:

      How does it not make much sense, If you want to keep all your shops you would have to bid on them all and in some cases having 10 shops could cost you your profit because you might have to bid higher then normal to keep them so if you have 10 you will need to place a 100mil bid on all your shops where if you only had 1 or 2 you only would have to watch 1 or 2 plots so you wouldnt need to bid a crazy number to keep it you could manage them a lot better. Having more then 1 or 2 will take a lot more time to make sure you bid the right amounts and if someone tries to take your plot you wont need to bid high on 10 different ones just 1 or 2. There is a big difference here and all I'm saying is it would be cheaper in time and money to keep track of 1 or 2 then 10 or 15.
      You said if you have 1 shop you can make profit, right? Ok, so let's say to keep that 1 shop you bid 100m and the shop makes 101m in revenue (after paying for food and repair costs). That means you have 1m profit with 1 shop.Now, if you own 10 shops, you bid 10 x 100m = 1b silver, but the shops maxe 10 x 101m in revenue = 1.01b, so now you have 10m in profit. More shops = more profit.
      You know what I was saying, I was saying if someone is trying to bid up your plots having 1 or 2 to take care of is a lot better then having to bid 200m on all 10 to keep them, W.e I don't do plots so I can only look from the outside in. All I was saying is it would be easier to keep a smaller amount of plots to make more because you shouldnt have to bid crazy amounts everytime to keep it.
    • My suggestion, I am quite new to AO, but know game mechanics quite well.


      Here is what will change:
      • Under the new system, the full amount of the winning bid will be collected from the winner. Bids by the current plot owner will still count double.
        Keep this but reduce the plot owner 100% bid bonus by the AVG tax of the building. Eg. plot with an AVG tax of 50% would only get 50% plot owner bid bonus, AVG tax 150% would reverse the bonus reducing their bid by 50%. AVG tax 200% would render all bids null from owner.
      • This means, for example, that if the plot owner bids 10 million Silver and the next-highest bid is 16 million Silver, the plot owner wins the bid, since their bid counts as 20 million. With proxy bidding no longer in place, the full 10 million will be collected (as opposed to 8 million plus one Silver under the current system).
        Keep this
      • Likewise, in an extremely lopsided situation where the current owner bids 100 million Silver (for an effective value of 200 million) and the next-highest bid is 16 million, the full 100 million Silver will be collected from the owner.
        Keep this
      • The Land Auction UI will be updated to reflect these changes, with prominent warnings that the full amount of the winning bid will be due.
        Keep this
    • UUUltra wrote:

      My suggestion, I am quite new to AO, but know game mechanics quite well.


      Here is what will change:
      • Under the new system, the full amount of the winning bid will be collected from the winner. Bids by the current plot owner will still count double.
        Keep this but reduce the plot owner 100% bid bonus by the AVG tax of the building. Eg. plot with an AVG tax of 50% would only get 50% plot owner bid bonus, AVG tax 150% would reverse the bonus reducing their bid by 50%. AVG tax 200% would render all bids null from owner.
      • This means, for example, that if the plot owner bids 10 million Silver and the next-highest bid is 16 million Silver, the plot owner wins the bid, since their bid counts as 20 million. With proxy bidding no longer in place, the full 10 million will be collected (as opposed to 8 million plus one Silver under the current system).
        Keep this
      • Likewise, in an extremely lopsided situation where the current owner bids 100 million Silver (for an effective value of 200 million) and the next-highest bid is 16 million, the full 100 million Silver will be collected from the owner.
        Keep this
      • The Land Auction UI will be updated to reflect these changes, with prominent warnings that the full amount of the winning bid will be due.
        Keep this

      this is intresting, Bid amount linked into the tax'd amount. Could work but the numbers would need work. Not 100% sure if this would work. Though with the current changes they made Caerleon can be used to craft again which i like very much they did something right on the update.
    • I think it would be fun to have the plots more "thematically" owned. A city would want nothing but the best chefs/designers/stores if their space was limited.. so why not hire the "most famous" from their cities?

      People could have a special journal type item that would fill up as they did a specific type of craft in a specific city. For Example, Lymhurst Leather Refiner. Whenever you refined leather in lymhurst (islands are also in lymhurst, so you could do it there instead of main city), the points in your journal would go up. When it comes time to bid for plots, you can bid for a leather refinery using your journal. If you have the most fame in your journal, you win the plot, and lose the journal. This means that people could fill for a couple months and eventually could have the best journal to win a plot. 1 plot per character.

      Would be difficult for the same people to control the plots month to month as they would have to fill a new journal every month and compete with those who have been filling for a few months.
    • SelaCC wrote:

      I think it would be fun to have the plots more "thematically" owned. A city would want nothing but the best chefs/designers/stores if their space was limited.. so why not hire the "most famous" from their cities?

      People could have a special journal type item that would fill up as they did a specific type of craft in a specific city. For Example, Lymhurst Leather Refiner. Whenever you refined leather in lymhurst (islands are also in lymhurst, so you could do it there instead of main city), the points in your journal would go up. When it comes time to bid for plots, you can bid for a leather refinery using your journal. If you have the most fame in your journal, you win the plot, and lose the journal. This means that people could fill for a couple months and eventually could have the best journal to win a plot. 1 plot per character.

      Would be difficult for the same people to control the plots month to month as they would have to fill a new journal every month and compete with those who have been filling for a few months.
      And how u will set proper tax when u got 80 ovners per 1 city lol? )))
    • Ok. Now we can see anarchy in all towns. Now noone can have income from plots.

      U should do this land system like in real life where any person can buy land from government and he owns it with no limits and pays a monthly tax to government. He can sell it he can rent it to others. All towns have their mayor etc. But no. U decided to do stupid change. Bring economist to your team please!

      Well. Good job SBI! Keep going and u will see ppl go away from this game.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Zalupashka ().