Land Auction System Changes

    • OB3 wrote:

      everyone with IQ more than 2 know that these changes are better for Cartels... first 1-2month they do all they can to make low taxes and make people don't want buy anymore plots because it won't make profit for them, than when all Carteled will have plots taxes will be 200% and noobs will bring them money ^^

      @Vasort i really believe one day u will set 200% + in all towns :) fingers crossed!
      @VOC ideas are good, but devs want make cartel stronger
      I already, craft on my island.
      On T4.0 is better than 80% tax rate.

      On T5.0-T6.0 the margin is around 120-140%
      So they can t go higer than that.

      Just to see the difference. (pretty clear)
      drive.google.com/file/d/1jN9lS…LEnMU_qe/view?usp=sharing
    • As a land owner i will agree that having the winning bid cost the full amount is probably a fair change and how it should have been from the beginning, but please DO NOT show the defenders final winning bid on the plot marker each month - it needs to at least APPEAR the same as it does now (2nd place bid + 1 silver) It's fine if it consumes all the gold (where does this go?)

      But if the defenders full bid is there for all to see each month, the skill portion of land ownership is gone instantly, and it's just a numbers game, or a trolls game (imagine if someone had 100b silver and knew exactly how much each plot sells for each month....someone like vasort maybe)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Darkros ().

    • Hi and Dear Sandbox,


      Yours update maybe will progress for better game. Monopols, and cartels inst good for game. I have some idea, how to make better with crafting. We had patch for pvp, pve but nothnig for crafters and gathers(without t8 from territories). So my idea you can add enchanted stone. Too many gethers said" I dont like gathering stone, because cant be enchanted".


      And this game have beutifull guild islands nobody using islands because never can be efektive return mats. You can make faiming buildings- if you will craft in build make crafting points in building and next level is more return.(for example: each lvl 0,1% return mats) Style points as guild chalanges. You have more data for setup fair play for game and economy. Ror recruting guild is too good. And can use enchanted stone bloks for modific koeficient crafting points for example 3% for uncommon 7% for rare and purple 15% .


      8.3 builds have guilds and in city will max 8.1/2 build because more expensive and very risk lose building in auction. And 8.3 building take small bonus for guild


      And secondary efekt merge to bigger guilds, I things that small guilds is killer players. Small guilds cant go to aliance, much more aktivity in albiion is for bigger group is win. And if have 100 ppl online in guild is better than 5 online ( 1x gatherer 1x in expedition and other aktivity ) player in this guild cant play. I was guild master and the best events were unlimited players. Somebody went online and, and ask can I have join? And If wasnt place for logged player, offen he went offline.



      Will be more subject, which guild islands, recruting, crafting guilda will be have place in aliance. And other and if somebody can take accesss. More crafting plots cannt make cartels. And guild with history will be better.

      And security systém degrees some crafting points for some times and if some city cartel make huge fee in city ( actually in carleon) ppl will not crafting at him, their building lose crafting return rate.



      IT IS BASIC IDEA.


      Budhýs
    • Darkros wrote:

      As a land owner i will agree that having the winning bid cost the full amount is probably a fair change and how it should have been from the beginning, but please DO NOT show the defenders final winning bid on the plot marker each month - it needs to at least APPEAR the same as it does now (2nd place bid + 1 silver) It's fine if it consumes all the gold (where does this go?)

      But if the defenders full bid is there for all to see each month, the skill portion of land ownership is gone instantly, and it's just a numbers game, or a trolls game (imagine if someone had 100b silver and knew exactly how much each plot sells for each month....someone like vasort maybe)
      Is it skillful to intentionally hide numbers from players? Seeing the highest bidder at the end of auction rather than owner's bid if the owner wins the auction just adds more guessing. More guessing isn't great for a competitive market where information is key to making sound decisions. Having the owner's bid shown is better for the market overall because bidders will be able to more accurately calculate profits. If people are able to more accurately calculate profits, then people won't waste money overbidding or lose money underbidding.
    • Hastix wrote:

      Darkros wrote:

      As a land owner i will agree that having the winning bid cost the full amount is probably a fair change and how it should have been from the beginning, but please DO NOT show the defenders final winning bid on the plot marker each month - it needs to at least APPEAR the same as it does now (2nd place bid + 1 silver) It's fine if it consumes all the gold (where does this go?)

      But if the defenders full bid is there for all to see each month, the skill portion of land ownership is gone instantly, and it's just a numbers game, or a trolls game (imagine if someone had 100b silver and knew exactly how much each plot sells for each month....someone like vasort maybe)
      Is it skillful to intentionally hide numbers from players? Seeing the highest bidder at the end of auction rather than owner's bid if the owner wins the auction just adds more guessing. More guessing isn't great for a competitive market where information is key to making sound decisions. Having the owner's bid shown is better for the market overall because bidders will be able to more accurately calculate profits. If people are able to more accurately calculate profits, then people won't waste money overbidding or lose money underbidding.
      There needs to be that variable (intellectual property) otherwise it just turns it into who is willing to take the absolute least amount of profit or even operate the buildings at a loss, which completely kills this sandbox aspect of the game.


      This change is the equivalent of forcing all companies to give up all their patents and IP in the name of "fairness and transparency to more accurately calculate profits". It makes no sense, and the rules have been the same for everyone in the game, no one has an advantage.
    • Darkros wrote:

      Hastix wrote:

      Darkros wrote:

      As a land owner i will agree that having the winning bid cost the full amount is probably a fair change and how it should have been from the beginning, but please DO NOT show the defenders final winning bid on the plot marker each month - it needs to at least APPEAR the same as it does now (2nd place bid + 1 silver) It's fine if it consumes all the gold (where does this go?)

      But if the defenders full bid is there for all to see each month, the skill portion of land ownership is gone instantly, and it's just a numbers game, or a trolls game (imagine if someone had 100b silver and knew exactly how much each plot sells for each month....someone like vasort maybe)
      Is it skillful to intentionally hide numbers from players? Seeing the highest bidder at the end of auction rather than owner's bid if the owner wins the auction just adds more guessing. More guessing isn't great for a competitive market where information is key to making sound decisions. Having the owner's bid shown is better for the market overall because bidders will be able to more accurately calculate profits. If people are able to more accurately calculate profits, then people won't waste money overbidding or lose money underbidding.
      There needs to be that variable (intellectual property) otherwise it just turns it into who is willing to take the absolute least amount of profit or even operate the buildings at a loss, which completely kills this sandbox aspect of the game.

      This change is the equivalent of forcing all companies to give up all their patents and IP in the name of "fairness and transparency to more accurately calculate profits". It makes no sense, and the rules have been the same for everyone in the game, no one has an advantage.
      Intellectual property are designed to encourage new innovations because people like to experience new things. Without intellectual property, creative people won't innovate and average people won't be able to experience new things. In this case, creativity is stifled and the average people miss out on the possible creations.

      I would agree with you that it is unfair for companies to give up patents and fairness is valued in a market. However, correctly showing winning bids is not the same as freely disclosing intellectual property such as patents. The difference is that hiding information such as intellectual property is overall beneficial for everyone while hiding information such as winning bids is not overall beneficial for everyone. Hiding winning bids will have less people willing to bid on a plot, making plot ownership less competitive. A less competitive market is a less efficient one and will generally have higher tax rates to account for the inefficiency. Crafters are not better served by having higher tax rates and plot owners aren't better served by lack of competition to increase their efficiency.

      I would also agree with you that giving everyone information will lead to lower profits for current plot owners. However, it will also likely do it by lowering tax rates and the value of city plots, which benefit the economy as a whole. I do also think it takes a lot of intelligence to optimize plot ownership where costs are as low as they can be. In this case, intellectual property is highly valued.
    • @PrintsKaspian. I understand the need for a change. But think about it, the current owner will now assess how much the property generates per month and outs a defense bid in which leaves just a bit of profit. All possible buyers will see exactly what his defense bid was on the previous month. This is not sustainable now as every player will know exactly how much to bid to take the plot. This is an awful idea. As evidenced by the fact that half of Bridgewatch went for sale as soon as you announced this ridiculous change. It will *never* be a good idea to own a shop anymore.
    • Midgard wrote:

      Link the RRR for buildings on private islands to the average tax rate on all of the the corresponding buildings in the city its attached to (ie you have a smelter on a private or guild island in Lym then the RRR is based on the average tax of all smelters in Lym). The higher the tax rate goes, increase the RRR on privately owned buildings, the more attractive it then becomes to craft on a private island. Cartels raise the taxes too high then it becomes more economical to use your own or your guilds stations and the cartels have to either drop tax rates or make less silver
      This is 100% what they should and it should be based on a 150% tax rate for fairness. (i.e. 10% tax = +1% RR)
      Discord: ChaosCircle#9506

      Neighborhood Watch is always recruiting!
    • Abydon wrote:

      Midgard wrote:

      Link the RRR for buildings on private islands to the average tax rate on all of the the corresponding buildings in the city its attached to (ie you have a smelter on a private or guild island in Lym then the RRR is based on the average tax of all smelters in Lym). The higher the tax rate goes, increase the RRR on privately owned buildings, the more attractive it then becomes to craft on a private island. Cartels raise the taxes too high then it becomes more economical to use your own or your guilds stations and the cartels have to either drop tax rates or make less silver
      This is 100% what they should and it should be based on a 150% tax rate for fairness. (i.e. 10% tax = +1% RR)
      Providing an incentive for 3rd parties to bid in the auction, to get owners to have to raise taxes, seems like it may have some consequences. 3rd party bids are already a problem with the current system.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
      "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Well this is fun shopkeeprs in this game are all amateurs .... they fucked up and some of them ended in loss ... but its their own faul for they meessed up their bussines plan ... Now they tried to fix it up by cartel pricing in system where cartel is IMPOSIBLE to hold cause its easy to break it.
      And so now when they desperately try to hold cartel together which increasing their expenses they are forced to increase their fees but that only forces more people to craft elsewere => they dont earn enough anway ... so they increase even more .. that start to hurt the litle man => under Tlike T4 its automatic loss thats super retarded cause if you hurt the litle man game developers has to act .... and their act will hurt shop owners which are already in loss
      So yeah sorry shop owners you are going to take a hit, but before you start throwing tantrum like litle boy @Vasort and start venting in ot litle man even more. Try to calm down and consider two points
      1) you as shop owner fucked up by trying to use buissnes model which was ultimately going to crumble. So you ought to eat your loss.
      2) if you wish go full Snowflake MODE like little boy Vasort and say fuck you i have shitload of gold/silver to fuck up economy two time ower and since you broke mine genious sand castle (cartel was very faulty system which almost look like some middle schooler came up with it). Remeber no matter how much gold silver you have if you keep messing the game there is mighty power of BAN hammer which can fall on you if you choose to act like litle kid a screw stuff you are not supose to mess with :) but well vassort is in affect so he will probably act out like little kido in spite of danger of getting punished.

      In the end i feel with shop owners cause plot system is very faulty in so many ways ... but then again why the hell did you start making bussines in faulty system like you did and even stupid way you did (there ultimately are better more consistent ways to do buissnes in this system) ?
      In the end Game devs gotta fix this up cause shop owners are not clever enough to operate in this system without messing up game for others.

      Oh and sorry for bad english gramar but i hope at least its undestendable with some missing letters, at least better than certain someone with lot of money in game whos every second sentence is incomprehensible.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Sweetek ().

    • Blatta wrote:

      hm, shop owners, cartell,... There was always a kind of more or less organised communication between shop owners. At some point in history, people started calling it a Cartell. This stimulated phantasies, most importantly the phantasies of investors. But on a daily basis shops just sell nutrition/food.
      More accurately, shops allow nutrition to be turned into resource return, and offer the ability to sell that service to other players.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
      "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      t.

      thisismine wrote:

      Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      That doesnt change that he is right.

      you will go back to where every shop owner lost money
      They would only lose lots of money because the existing shop bids are over inflated to maintain monopoly prices. Would you lose as much money if you didn't bid 300mil on multiple shops just to keep the monopoly on 1 shop going? I think you forget that you are raising usage fees in staggering amounts because you want to keep the monopoly going.
      Its a lost discussion because people wont accept what plot owners say ever.you will see plot prices going down, fees going down, and shopowners losing money due to the plot cost and the stone repair cost is way bigger than the income.
      The problem is that there is a few plot owners who know the reality, and the angry masses who dont understand the economy behind who scream for blood.

      So SBI bows to that, and people simply have to watch how it becomes a norm for plot owners to lose money on their plot, but purely have them because they have a dream of running a shop thinking it is close to decent business.

      But you and the other masses will not accept what plot owners say so now the ignorant masses will get their way and we will be shot back to where we were with the shops a year ago.

      /f
      yes I do not understand why caerleon has 200% tax when Bridgewatch is around 50% tops, Why can bridgewatch shop owners keep lower prices and not lose money but caerleon can't its simple dn't own 20 plots where you have to bid 200mil on each one. 1 person shouldn't own more then 1 or 2. Being that people own 5 to 10 or even more makes it harder to make money because you need to keep all your shops. kk thanks bye....
    • Neef wrote:

      Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      t.

      thisismine wrote:

      Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      That doesnt change that he is right.

      you will go back to where every shop owner lost money
      They would only lose lots of money because the existing shop bids are over inflated to maintain monopoly prices. Would you lose as much money if you didn't bid 300mil on multiple shops just to keep the monopoly on 1 shop going? I think you forget that you are raising usage fees in staggering amounts because you want to keep the monopoly going.
      Its a lost discussion because people wont accept what plot owners say ever.you will see plot prices going down, fees going down, and shopowners losing money due to the plot cost and the stone repair cost is way bigger than the income.The problem is that there is a few plot owners who know the reality, and the angry masses who dont understand the economy behind who scream for blood.

      So SBI bows to that, and people simply have to watch how it becomes a norm for plot owners to lose money on their plot, but purely have them because they have a dream of running a shop thinking it is close to decent business.

      But you and the other masses will not accept what plot owners say so now the ignorant masses will get their way and we will be shot back to where we were with the shops a year ago.

      /f
      yes I do not understand why caerleon has 200% tax when Bridgewatch is around 50% tops, Why can bridgewatch shop owners keep lower prices and not lose money but caerleon can't its simple dn't own 20 plots where you have to bid 200mil on each one. 1 person shouldn't own more then 1 or 2. Being that people own 5 to 10 or even more makes it harder to make money because you need to keep all your shops. kk thanks bye....
      That doesn't make much sense though, if you make profit with 1 shop you should be able to make even more profit with 10, assuming they get on average similar usage.
    • @PrintsKaspian. Is there any way the devs will cancel or modify this change before it is scheduled to roll out? It is simply an atomic bomb to shop ownership. It will never be stable or profitable for anyone’s in the proposed system. By its nature, the proposed change will make full city ownership the ONLY viable option. Think Ridler in Lymhurst. Now, he can raise taxes on every shop to extreme levels. He has the money to hold the entire town easily. With extreme taxes he will be able to put single property bids as high as $400M. No problem. How? You have access to the total revenue of the town as developers. You do the math. If he takes taxes and quadruples them, this will be a no-loss system. However, in towns where there is competition from small players, plot ownership will exchange hands almost every single month. Because every would-be owner will see exactly what the precious owner defended with. So to try it out they will simply bid a bit higher. The only way in the NEW system to make ownership profitable will be to hold a full monopoly on the town. This is EXACTLY the problem you were trying to FIX. It will make it even more lopsided. Please use some business logic here. Truth be told only people who have owned shop(s) can inform the general playerbase about how risky shop ownership already is. Most shops already barely break even on average. The effort spent trying to get a tax agreement could have easily generated more income another way in Albion.