Carleon Cartel: Let's drain the swamp

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    • First of all. I did some math on chef before and it is still profitable even at a very high tax rate. 100% on Chef is actually lower than a lot of other places.
      Second of all. If you start doing things like lowering the tax rate on crafting equipment and stuff in Carleon of all places a lot of players like me would actually be mad at you. Everything being cheaper to make would lower the sell value of the Black Market as people would begin taking stuff out of Market shop to sell to Black Market next door as opposed to traveling through the red zones from cities.
    • Vasort wrote:

      He start with 29 now he is %42

      i am raising all caerleon taxxes +%50

      so lets see is he gonna stay 29 %42 or higher

      phantomxz wrote:

      First of all. I did some math on chef before and it is still profitable even at a very high tax rate. 100% on Chef is actually lower than a lot of other places.
      Second of all. If you start doing things like lowering the tax rate on crafting equipment and stuff in Carleon of all places a lot of players like me would actually be mad at you. Everything being cheaper to make would lower the sell value of the Black Market as people would begin taking stuff out of Market shop to sell to Black Market next door as opposed to traveling through the red zones from cities.
      I love these threads so much. You start talking about stations, plots and making silver, and it seems like the entire world pulls its shirt and pants off, then puts their pants on their head and their shirt on their legs.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Piddle wrote:


      I love these threads so much. You start talking about stations, plots and making silver, and it seems like the entire world pulls its shirt and pants off, then puts their pants on their head and their shirt on their legs.
      Such constructive criticism. Excuse me if I want to make money going though the trouble of traveling all the way to Carleon to sell stuff.
      And I do not see why I should care about the money of people who want to do all their crafting in Carleon where resources are cheap rather than traveling to a different city.
    • The cartel folks do a lot of transport across cities? Doubtful.

      "Good for thee, but not for me"

      Vasort wrote:

      He start with 29 now he is %42

      i am raising all caerleon taxxes +%50

      so lets see is he gonna stay 29 %42 or higher

      Doubling the refining station tax to 90+%? Seemingly as punishment for a single plot breach in the cartel. Your iniquity is laid bare for all to see.

      The need to drain the swamp has never been more clear. It is clear that the cartel ought to be cut down to size, like other areas of the game have been rebalanced such as the GvG timers so that the super team of 5 people cannot utterly stronghold 3 continents with ease.

      The soon coming hard nerf seems inevitable. Indeed you have laid the groundwork for your own destruction. Then we will look back and say the cartel's reign was this truly terrible thing that happened - about 30 people made mega profits with the safety of never leaving town, and the 99% hard carried them for a long time - but now the game is in a better place.
    • i can break any cartel alone any city

      If you can check you can see it I can do it alone

      Do u know why

      Because this system is very bad for shop owners

      But you guys cant understand that...

      2xI ALREADY break 2 other cartel two other cities i did it alone because i know this system cant cover any shop owner

      3xI ALREADY break 2 other cartel two other cities i did it alone because i know this system cant cover any shop owner

      4xI ALREADY break 2 other cartel two other cities i did it alone because i know this system cant cover any shop owner

      5xI ALREADY break 2 other cartel two other cities i did it alone because i know this system cant cover any shop owner

      6xI ALREADY break 2 other cartel two other cities i did it alone because i know this system cant cover any shop owner

      if u need i can say many times if you dont understand i can try to explain in my language

      the main point if they will change system if they gonna cover shop owners better you wont see like those taxes


      7xI ALREADY break 2 other cartel two other cities i did it alone because i know this system cant cover any shop owner

      yes they have to change system BUT THEY HAVE TO COVER CARTEL(shop owners) thats the main point


      maybe this time ^^
    • It seems to me there are several interrelated numbers here: the rent on the plot, the trade volume, the operating cost, and an "acceptable" rate of return on investment. Cartel situations arise from greed: increase the rate of return by monopolizing trade volume - not by charging competitive rates. The operating cost is a function of trade volume and game-enforced taxes - not variables under the control of the business operator. Because the cartel-like behavior created an increase in return on investment, the price of rent increased: heightened demand for plots and reduced supply. The cartel-operators don't WANT high rent, it is a side effect of greed. If the return on investment drops, then demand for plots will drop and then rents will drop (once everybody is convinced that they cannot restore the cartel-oriented price fixing -- a process that might take quite a few lease cycles).

      What is an acceptable rate of return? From my limited experience with market trading in the hinterlands, I'd say generally a few percentage points daily is reasonable - 5% maybe? 5% daily on 45 million in rent is 2.25 million daily after expenses. I have no idea what are the feeding and maintenance expenses per day on typical operating volume for a shop in Caerleon. This 5% is NOT the tax rate. The tax rate has to cover that feeding and maintenance and generate that 2+ million of profit. The required tax rate is whatever it takes to cover the operating costs and the operating profit from the business traffic.
    • A new hero to stand against the Cartel has entered the Arena.

      I wish these MAGA guys great success in disrupting the Vasort Cartel which has had a chokehold on Caerleon for 2 months now.

      Cuf/720 did pretty good on the Tinker station the last two months.

      He kept taxes reasonable and only lost 25-30 million a month overall.

      At 350 Million , I think these MAGA guys over-paid for this plot but it appears they have a strong guild network to support their station.

      It only takes a group of 20-30 players to wage successful economic PvP on the Cartel and this MAGA guild seems to have about 100 Active members to Farm and Cook and Contribute to spread the warfighting costs out.

      I encourage MAGA to make daily transparent updates and show all the details of the effort it takes to own and manage a plot.

      Show the Farming, and Cooking, and Nutrition, and Income and break down the value adds at each point in the process.

      I have tried to do it before , and people correctly pointed out that I could have given even more detail.

      As a single guy, thats tough.

      Hopefully your guild can iterate and improve on my efforts.

      Let me know if there is anyway I can help.



      P.S.

      LOLOLOL @ Vasort pushing taxes to 90%, Are you Delusional Kid ?
    • Originally we were going to wait until after reset day, but with the now doubly extortionist prices by the Cartel, we are going to move to open up voting for a new crafting station that we'll build tomorrow so people can make more affordable gear for reset day. Problem is, we only have one plot so we're going to let the community decide what plot we will make.

      You can vote by visiting our discord and clicking the proper emoji for the pinned message in the "Caerleon Plot Discussion" channel: discord.gg/pSddgF4

      Voting will close at 3UTC (11PM EST tonight)

      The other issue we have been running into is basically sitting at 0% capacity since our Chef was built. Basically what we believe to be happening is that our plot has been getting bombarded by cartel members just spamming low level crafting items to keep our capacity down to make it unusable since our costs are so close to the nutrition costs. We're going to set the tax for the new building at 25% in hopes that it will be more expensive for the Cartel to do this and have to drop their prices. But as of right now we're basically being capacity locked so we're not able to help nearly as many people as we'd like and people basically can't use our plot.
    • I doubt setting up the price a bit is going to save you from them using up your durability. Also someone on Reddit mentioned you possibly gave them money by saving them the trouble of buying the plot. The idea of generously giving away stuff does nothing if you did not factor that the giving can go to the same people you are trying to fight.
    • @Vindrax Kudos for attempting to take on the Cartel. Unfortunately, owning one plot is not going to cut it. In order to break the cartel with current pricing you need to win auctions for a much larger percentage of the total plots in Caerleon.

      Fact of the matter is that the current crafting plot system is broken from an economic standpoint because the supply of plots is fixed and grossly insufficient for discouraging monopolization and cartels.

      In the real world, there is much lower cost of entry for competition, which helps prevent cartels from forming in the first place.

      SBI can try to address this in two ways:

      1) Increase the size of Caerleon significantly, making room for more crafting stations. I don't know how many more crafting stations are needed, but currently there are not enough.
      2) Give guild or personal islands some base resource return rate. How much, I don't know, but they need to be set at a rate that puts a soft cap on how high taxes can go in Caerleon plots before it makes more sense to use a island crafting station.
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