Anyone else self sufficient?

    • Dc1a0 wrote:

      Dethsesh wrote:

      Moosius wrote:

      When i first started playing this game I quickly realised that the market was a massive silver sink, so set out to become self sufficient. Since then i have got to the position where I literally buy NOTHING from the market on a day to day basis (only thing I get is rare mounts as investments). I get all my mats via gathering and labourers, I craft all my own gear, mounts and consumables. I can now craft most items to T6/7, sell anything of lower quality and keep all the good stuff for myself. Something very satisfying about running around in a full set and mount all crafted myself and even more satisfying when you die and dont even know or care about the cost of your gear as you know that you have a bank full of further sets (I have approx 45 T6 and above Halberd sets for example).

      Does anyone else play this way?

      GonkGonk wrote:

      I have alot of money, I just wanted to make my own gear sets and use my artifacts without having to find someone to craft it for me.
      Unless you craft all your own gear with high spec and use focus, you probably lose money by using the mats you've gathered/refined when you could just sell the mats and buy the gear from the AH.
      For example, in Caer market. If you had 16 T6 bars, they'd sell for 3k per. So 48k worth of materials
      If you instead went and crafted those 16 bars into some guardian armor, you're going to pay tax on this and also the guardian armor is only worth 28k if you just bought it (or 39k for an excellent)
      Even a T6 halberd - 20 planks and 12 bars. 3.2k for planks and 3k for bars = 100k in mats
      You can just buy T6 outstanding halberds for 90k

      What you're doing is perfectly fine if you want to pay a premium to have your own name on the gear you wear, but new players should not think this is profitable at all, and in fact, it is the opposite.
      You would be mistaken. I'm currently F2P and don't lose money, it's possible I don't make as much as I could, but my silver keeps going up and up like I assume everyone else's does.
      Yes, not making as much as you could is the same as "losing" money. Obviously your bank account will increase but you are still making things at a loss compared to market value for the item. You are investing time to gather resources, but could be making more.
    • Dethsesh wrote:

      Dc1a0 wrote:

      Dethsesh wrote:

      Moosius wrote:

      When i first started playing this game I quickly realised that the market was a massive silver sink, so set out to become self sufficient. Since then i have got to the position where I literally buy NOTHING from the market on a day to day basis (only thing I get is rare mounts as investments). I get all my mats via gathering and labourers, I craft all my own gear, mounts and consumables. I can now craft most items to T6/7, sell anything of lower quality and keep all the good stuff for myself. Something very satisfying about running around in a full set and mount all crafted myself and even more satisfying when you die and dont even know or care about the cost of your gear as you know that you have a bank full of further sets (I have approx 45 T6 and above Halberd sets for example).

      Does anyone else play this way?

      GonkGonk wrote:

      I have alot of money, I just wanted to make my own gear sets and use my artifacts without having to find someone to craft it for me.
      Unless you craft all your own gear with high spec and use focus, you probably lose money by using the mats you've gathered/refined when you could just sell the mats and buy the gear from the AH.For example, in Caer market. If you had 16 T6 bars, they'd sell for 3k per. So 48k worth of materials
      If you instead went and crafted those 16 bars into some guardian armor, you're going to pay tax on this and also the guardian armor is only worth 28k if you just bought it (or 39k for an excellent)
      Even a T6 halberd - 20 planks and 12 bars. 3.2k for planks and 3k for bars = 100k in mats
      You can just buy T6 outstanding halberds for 90k

      What you're doing is perfectly fine if you want to pay a premium to have your own name on the gear you wear, but new players should not think this is profitable at all, and in fact, it is the opposite.
      You would be mistaken. I'm currently F2P and don't lose money, it's possible I don't make as much as I could, but my silver keeps going up and up like I assume everyone else's does.
      Yes, not making as much as you could is the same as "losing" money. Obviously your bank account will increase but you are still making things at a loss compared to market value for the item. You are investing time to gather resources, but could be making more.
      Alright then, in real life, unless you're the owner of a large corporation, then you're losing money by your logic. First, the definition of losing disagrees with you; losing means having LESS than you did when you started. Second, again you're wrong because I create for less and sell for more, usually without even tweaking a sell order, which means I'm gaining on market value.

      Perhaps you should take a micro-economics, or perhaps an intro to business class, they might help you. If you're going to try to say you have, maybe you should go back and refresh.
    • I have a bucket with holes, and i go get water with it to fill a tub. I am filling the tub, but on the way a portion of the water in the bucket flows through the holes.
      You could even say im... losing water.
      You are "losing out on" would be the clearer phrasing but it should have been obvious what Dethsesh meant.

      Selling raw mats and buying gear is something everyone(in the described situation of craft self with raw mats or sell) has access to. Thats the biiiig difference to the real world - where people have limited access to markets. You cant say you are losing money if the place to make a better deal is just fantasy. But you can if its attainable, especially if its even easier than what you are doing.
    • Dethsesh wrote:

      Yes, not making as much as you could is the same as "losing" money. Obviously your bank account will increase but you are still making things at a loss compared to market value for the item. You are investing time to gather resources, but could be making more.
      With this kind of logic, then you are losing billions when you could be making as much as warren buffett, but you are not.
    • Dethsesh wrote:

      Moosius wrote:

      When i first started playing this game I quickly realised that the market was a massive silver sink, so set out to become self sufficient. Since then i have got to the position where I literally buy NOTHING from the market on a day to day basis (only thing I get is rare mounts as investments). I get all my mats via gathering and labourers, I craft all my own gear, mounts and consumables. I can now craft most items to T6/7, sell anything of lower quality and keep all the good stuff for myself. Something very satisfying about running around in a full set and mount all crafted myself and even more satisfying when you die and dont even know or care about the cost of your gear as you know that you have a bank full of further sets (I have approx 45 T6 and above Halberd sets for example).

      Does anyone else play this way?

      GonkGonk wrote:

      I have alot of money, I just wanted to make my own gear sets and use my artifacts without having to find someone to craft it for me.
      Unless you craft all your own gear with high spec and use focus, you probably lose money by using the mats you've gathered/refined when you could just sell the mats and buy the gear from the AH.

      For example, in Caer market. If you had 16 T6 bars, they'd sell for 3k per. So 48k worth of materials
      If you instead went and crafted those 16 bars into some guardian armor, you're going to pay tax on this and also the guardian armor is only worth 28k if you just bought it (or 39k for an excellent)
      Even a T6 halberd - 20 planks and 12 bars. 3.2k for planks and 3k for bars = 100k in mats
      You can just buy T6 outstanding halberds for 90k

      What you're doing is perfectly fine if you want to pay a premium to have your own name on the gear you wear, but new players should not think this is profitable at all, and in fact, it is the opposite.

      You may lose money you could have gained, but that's balanced by gaining refining and/or crafting fame (and crafting books, which do refund some of the mats).

      Also, in my case (since I buy premium outright), I have no pressure to make silver; I can just gather what I need to play. Piling up silver is more of hobby in which the amount is the score. :)
    • Lucifen wrote:

      I have a bucket with holes, and i go get water with it to fill a tub. I am filling the tub, but on the way a portion of the water in the bucket flows through the holes.
      You could even say im... losing water.
      You are "losing out on" would be the clearer phrasing but it should have been obvious what Dethsesh meant.

      Selling raw mats and buying gear is something everyone(in the described situation of craft self with raw mats or sell) has access to. Thats the biiiig difference to the real world - where people have limited access to markets. You cant say you are losing money if the place to make a better deal is just fantasy. But you can if its attainable, especially if its even easier than what you are doing.
      The only reason you think selling raw mats and buying gear is cheaper is because you're buying the gear I don't keep for myself. You buy what I'd otherwise trash.
    • I started to play the game during the first beta and have played ever since. During this time I have paid for more than 15 accounts and have been very self sufficient in EVERYTHING. I gather every item in game with several maxed out 100/100 spec and have a crafting board set to craft everything to T8 that includes bags, capes, demo hammers and gathering gear and I will tell you it is very rewarding to do it, but also know it is not the only way or " best way" to play the game. There is always someone who needs silver right away so will sell things cheaper than what the market wants to sell so never pass up a good bargain when you see one even if you can make it yourself. Congrats on getting this far and I wish you well and becoming maxed in your quest but also know that the commitment to do so is not for everyone and is not something that should be taken lightly to reach the levels needed to become an end game self sufficient player.
      T8 Master Gatherer - Skinning, Ore, Fiber, Wood and Stone!
    • I am kinda this way but, not really.
      Few differences are first of all I can't get enough Royal Sigils for the royal cowl and boots.
      Also some goes for the artifacts.
      It is good to craft and sell one thing that is higher margin and buy something else than to do everything.
      For example with gathering I have high spec in fiber, also max spec fiber refiner. So in my case it is better to gather and refine fiber and sell some cloth and buy the wood/ore.
    • Dc1a0 wrote:

      Dethsesh wrote:

      Dc1a0 wrote:

      Dethsesh wrote:

      Moosius wrote:

      When i first started playing this game I quickly realised that the market was a massive silver sink, so set out to become self sufficient. Since then i have got to the position where I literally buy NOTHING from the market on a day to day basis (only thing I get is rare mounts as investments). I get all my mats via gathering and labourers, I craft all my own gear, mounts and consumables. I can now craft most items to T6/7, sell anything of lower quality and keep all the good stuff for myself. Something very satisfying about running around in a full set and mount all crafted myself and even more satisfying when you die and dont even know or care about the cost of your gear as you know that you have a bank full of further sets (I have approx 45 T6 and above Halberd sets for example).

      Does anyone else play this way?

      GonkGonk wrote:

      I have alot of money, I just wanted to make my own gear sets and use my artifacts without having to find someone to craft it for me.
      Unless you craft all your own gear with high spec and use focus, you probably lose money by using the mats you've gathered/refined when you could just sell the mats and buy the gear from the AH.For example, in Caer market. If you had 16 T6 bars, they'd sell for 3k per. So 48k worth of materialsIf you instead went and crafted those 16 bars into some guardian armor, you're going to pay tax on this and also the guardian armor is only worth 28k if you just bought it (or 39k for an excellent)
      Even a T6 halberd - 20 planks and 12 bars. 3.2k for planks and 3k for bars = 100k in mats
      You can just buy T6 outstanding halberds for 90k

      What you're doing is perfectly fine if you want to pay a premium to have your own name on the gear you wear, but new players should not think this is profitable at all, and in fact, it is the opposite.
      You would be mistaken. I'm currently F2P and don't lose money, it's possible I don't make as much as I could, but my silver keeps going up and up like I assume everyone else's does.
      Yes, not making as much as you could is the same as "losing" money. Obviously your bank account will increase but you are still making things at a loss compared to market value for the item. You are investing time to gather resources, but could be making more.
      Alright then, in real life, unless you're the owner of a large corporation, then you're losing money by your logic. First, the definition of losing disagrees with you; losing means having LESS than you did when you started. Second, again you're wrong because I create for less and sell for more, usually without even tweaking a sell order, which means I'm gaining on market value.
      Perhaps you should take a micro-economics, or perhaps an intro to business class, they might help you. If you're going to try to say you have, maybe you should go back and refresh.
      I put emphasis around "losing", because obviously you aren't losing money. Like I said originally, if you craft stuff without focus, typically you've wasted more materials than if you just bought the item outright and sold the mats.

      It's not worth crafting most things in this game without focus, because the market is priced accordingly.

      There's a lot in the equation of doing everything yourself, but you've spent time Gathering and anything you do with that is going to be profit.

      Time Gathering
      Tax and mats to refine
      Tax and mats to craft

      Are you being most efficient? Probably not, but you'll still obviously gain silver.
    • Dethsesh wrote:

      Dc1a0 wrote:

      Dethsesh wrote:

      Dc1a0 wrote:

      Dethsesh wrote:

      Moosius wrote:

      When i first started playing this game I quickly realised that the market was a massive silver sink, so set out to become self sufficient. Since then i have got to the position where I literally buy NOTHING from the market on a day to day basis (only thing I get is rare mounts as investments). I get all my mats via gathering and labourers, I craft all my own gear, mounts and consumables. I can now craft most items to T6/7, sell anything of lower quality and keep all the good stuff for myself. Something very satisfying about running around in a full set and mount all crafted myself and even more satisfying when you die and dont even know or care about the cost of your gear as you know that you have a bank full of further sets (I have approx 45 T6 and above Halberd sets for example).

      Does anyone else play this way?

      GonkGonk wrote:

      I have alot of money, I just wanted to make my own gear sets and use my artifacts without having to find someone to craft it for me.
      Unless you craft all your own gear with high spec and use focus, you probably lose money by using the mats you've gathered/refined when you could just sell the mats and buy the gear from the AH.For example, in Caer market. If you had 16 T6 bars, they'd sell for 3k per. So 48k worth of materialsIf you instead went and crafted those 16 bars into some guardian armor, you're going to pay tax on this and also the guardian armor is only worth 28k if you just bought it (or 39k for an excellent)Even a T6 halberd - 20 planks and 12 bars. 3.2k for planks and 3k for bars = 100k in mats
      You can just buy T6 outstanding halberds for 90k

      What you're doing is perfectly fine if you want to pay a premium to have your own name on the gear you wear, but new players should not think this is profitable at all, and in fact, it is the opposite.
      You would be mistaken. I'm currently F2P and don't lose money, it's possible I don't make as much as I could, but my silver keeps going up and up like I assume everyone else's does.
      Yes, not making as much as you could is the same as "losing" money. Obviously your bank account will increase but you are still making things at a loss compared to market value for the item. You are investing time to gather resources, but could be making more.
      Alright then, in real life, unless you're the owner of a large corporation, then you're losing money by your logic. First, the definition of losing disagrees with you; losing means having LESS than you did when you started. Second, again you're wrong because I create for less and sell for more, usually without even tweaking a sell order, which means I'm gaining on market value.Perhaps you should take a micro-economics, or perhaps an intro to business class, they might help you. If you're going to try to say you have, maybe you should go back and refresh.
      I put emphasis around "losing", because obviously you aren't losing money. Like I said originally, if you craft stuff without focus, typically you've wasted more materials than if you just bought the item outright and sold the mats.
      It's not worth crafting most things in this game without focus, because the market is priced accordingly.

      There's a lot in the equation of doing everything yourself, but you've spent time Gathering and anything you do with that is going to be profit.

      Time Gathering
      Tax and mats to refine
      Tax and mats to craft

      Are you being most efficient? Probably not, but you'll still obviously gain silver.
      Even with focus, the tax using city stalls at best breaks even, at worst you pay more than you would for the mats. In that sense you could be correct. However, if you don't use city stalls thereby avoiding the tax, even without focus, you come out ahead avoiding all of the tax in exchange for some to most of the resource return, (some things still do give a return, even on islands; and luckily, you don't even have to own them yourself ;)) Is it perfectly self-sufficient, no. But it's a lot closer than selling mats to try to buy things being at the whims of the market.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Dc1a0 ().

    • Termak wrote:

      Stuff you gather isnt free, people always forget the opportunity costs.
      Anything you farm, lose, craft, etc, has value in the market which you lose by not selling.
      You can see so many examples of people not valuing what they gather properly.
      You seem to forget that what you're keeping instead of selling, you're not buying either. When I find mats cheaper that it would be worth to go gather them, I tend to buy them. When prices are too high for my liking I go get and store them myself. Either way, I get what I want of what I craft, the money for selling what I don't want to those who can't make them, plus the experience towards making even better or more stuff. Wash, rinse, repeat.
    • There are a number of different costs in the game

      1) Real Money
      2) Time spent (doing stuff that one does not enjoy)
      3) Silver cost
      4) Social (stuff you could do with family / friends in RL)

      There are a number of different value in game

      1) Enjoy an activity
      2) Progress in in-game skills (fame / player skill)
      3) Silver
      4) Social (making new friends in the game)

      You cannot legally get money back. It is very difficult to buy time (labor). Easiest way to buy labor is to use the AH, I guess.

      Everyone value these things differently. What seems to one person as "opportunity cost" may appear to someone else like saved 50 cents and 20 minutes lost time with the family.

      Everyone is different.

      Have Fun! ^^
      IGN/Discord : Ravenar#2076
      Join Albion | RP Master Thread?
    • Dethsesh wrote:

      Unless you craft all your own gear with high spec and use focus, you probably lose money by using the mats you've gathered/refined when you could just sell the mats and buy the gear from the AH.

      For example, in Caer market. If you had 16 T6 bars, they'd sell for 3k per. So 48k worth of materials
      If you instead went and crafted those 16 bars into some guardian armor, you're going to pay tax on this and also the guardian armor is only worth 28k if you just bought it (or 39k for an excellent)
      Even a T6 halberd - 20 planks and 12 bars. 3.2k for planks and 3k for bars = 100k in mats
      You can just buy T6 outstanding halberds for 90k

      What you're doing is perfectly fine if you want to pay a premium to have your own name on the gear you wear, but new players should not think this is profitable at all, and in fact, it is the opposite
      Three things you have missed out, the crafting return rate, the return from labourers and high quality proc. Where possible I try to craft my main gear sets at places with best return rate . Crafting is the only way for me to fill my journals, journals return me daily mats. So the true cost of a halberd is, (20 planks + 12 bars) - (Returned Mats + Returned from Labourers). Proc quality is less of an factor BUT I have several masterpiece items which are 'valued' far higher than the mats cost, 6.3 Master Halberds, 6.3 Master Soliders etc.

      The fact that you have totally ignored these things is slightly confusing for someone giving advice to players on the subject.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Moosius ().

    • gmatagmis wrote:

      Being self-sufficient in a world of abundance with free wild market with no any access restrictions? Hmmm. Thank you, but not =))))
      It doesnt mean that you dont use the market, it means you dont buy your gear that you use to play the game from the market. i still sell loads of stuff, I also buy mats and craft for profit etc. I have buy orders out etc. I still use the market everyday extensively.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Moosius ().

    • Everyone that doesnt get silver from the guild or through $ is technically self-sufficient. So technically i am.
      In the way you meant it, i did that in beta 1+2 and in beta 3 i tried out splitting that up with a small squad - making those 7 people craft everything everyone in the group needs.
      In beta 1+2 it was a lot of fun to gather most of the ressource and being able to craft all my sets myself. Being self-sufficient in this way was a lot of fun so i did it.
      Beta 3 was... in a group you will have someone that throws everything out of the window and someone that will have to get that back - not gonna do that again.
      Now i dont enjoy gathering anymore, i did some crafting to make silver - but being self-sufficient in that way isnt fun for me anymore, so i dont.

      I think its an awesome goal and its great to chase as long as you enjoy doing it. But there is no reason to force yourself to it if you dont enjoy it.