Pinned The Current Albion Online Round Table

    • This entire talk about carebears, exploiters and whatnot is absurdly one-dimensional, to say the least, and against the whole concept of what the RT should be in the first place. Honestly, I'm glad the discussions there are usually about game mechanics and not this reddit alliance war mentality.

      For that matter, I agree with @Gank and @Gugusteh. I wish they'd make some form of periodic report with a list of the main topics being discussed in the RT just so people would see the general tone there. Of course there are some defending their groups' interests sometimes, but It'd probably surprise a few people that for the most part it's discussions about reducing snowballing and power concentration in all forms.

      Either way, going back to the meta discussion about the RT, I believe that the recent addition of more guilds from different playstyles helped a lot in the discussions (e.g. new Savage members). I'm really glad they added new members and hope they keep doing it without removing anyone because of the playstyle they chose. For instance, there are some players there giving specific feedback about economy without being in major alliances and I believe it is extremely valuable.
    • @marg93
      Let me explain something to you: renting in Albion is not the same as renting in Eve.
      In Eve, most renters are mainly interested in PvE and mining. The landlords defend their structures and sovereignty, so there's nothing else the renters have to do.
      Albion is different. Renters have an open-world objective not covered by the rental agreement, as it only provides GvG defense.
      Therefore, a renter who doesn't engage in PvP is a renter who will quickly find themselves unable to make rent.

      However, I suspect you'll ignore this and continue to spew idiotic bile about how RENT is a bunch of evil carebears who are killing the game, without any actual evidence given.
      I would like to know if there's any actual evidence that POE/RENT is bad for the game.
    • Round Table members should have to have forum tags and in game tags to show they are on it.

      They get to sit on the other side of the wall the developers built between the two classes of players in AO. If Round Table players are going to come over to the pleb side of the forums just to talk about how great they are. We should be able to tell.
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    • Fred_the_Barbarian wrote:

      I'll say it again: I challenge anyone who thinks that RENT and POE are the two worst things to happen to this game to post EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE that we are KILLING THE GAME. This means you need to provide an appropriate metric for what killing the game means and then provide proof that we are meeting said metric.
      Omg...

      English is not my language but go ahead...

      All mmo games must have a balance, either in economic dynamics balance spells etc etc it is complicated to get to it .. Saying this, one of the causes that a game fails is the exploitation of mechanics "allowed"

      A game in good health, detects and repairs those imbalances in time, before they do serious damage to the spirits and the community in general, for that reason there are power ups, nerfs and other improvements for example the wc schedules, the blockades portal, energies etc etc

      Rent indirectly promotes an unhealthy game, economically supporting poe (Carebear alliance)

      The experience of a sandbox game is strictly related to the dynamics between players, while still allowing and not repairing the current exploit of number of people in alliances, the uselessness of zvz to acquire and defend territories and the little incentive of open world, the game will continue to lose numbers, as it has been doing constantly ...

      The game is held largely by those who still create content, without them there is no game.
      There are 2 types of players that most of the time are:

      Carebears: they do not create content, they get hooked or they tie up the content of others, they depend on Not carebears to enjoy the game
      They enjoy more than fame, resources, accumulate money and very occasionally some real action promoted in general not by them, but by the second group below.
      Not carebears: They create quality content, the game exists and has life thanks to them. they promote action and the true meaning of the game.

      No matter how much the game improves in its structure, if at the time of doing so they do not have enough players to enjoy it, the graphics improvements, addition of mounts, bosses etc, is not accompanied by a patch to the exploiters. nothing


      Summarizing. Poe and more precisely syndic has already exploited mechanics before, as for example the BM I remember as defended in the forum and took them from side to side distributing cancer, finally after a long season were patched. Someone who exploits unhealthy mechanics can not be at the round table is pretty obvious, right? It will not contribute in taking the game to a global balance, but will continue directing it watching over their interests. Rent supports and solves, worse yet, they do not realize how insane their activity, therefore, for the good of the game, they should not be in round table.
    • @Fred_the_Barbarian


      This my last try ,if you dont understand my point, sorry.


      Why do you play a game?
      Because it's fun.
      Why do you leave it?
      a) Lack of time
      b) because it gets boring.

      Let's explore b:
      Albion = Sandbox -> content created by players
      Albion fun -> Lots of content
      Albion boring-> Little content

      + Content Creators -> + Content ; -Content Creators -> -Content ; - Content Creators-> Albion Boring ; +Content Creators -> Albion fun.
      Leave Albion <-> Albion boring

      Currently with the rewards and the current risks in the function of time and difficulty we have to:

      What is the quality and striking content of albion?
      Pvp open world and free loot, this is the main axis of albion, then it has ramifications and / or secondary activities that are sustained and / or depend on the main axis, if you do not agree, then stop reading.

      Content creators:
      1) ZvZ guilds example(blue army, team casualty etc)
      2) Only players killers example(Nausk, helpfgurd, oaktreeinfield, brolys etc etc)
      3) Skirmish fight Guilds example (Gipsyes, One puch man etc)
      4) Squad Ganking guilds example (Awful Company, Savage etc)

      1'') With the current mechanics, it is not necessary to do zvz to get territories, in fact if you do not do them little it will affect the performance, in fact if you deny content you do not lose anything (Poe = denied content alliance)

      2'') Every time there are fewer players, because the game is more boring, in addition the HCE are safe and prosperous to achieve fame, this goes against the content created by the only players

      3")If they continue to hinder and / or make unattractive or more difficult to specify the activities already mentioned above, detonate in abandonment or cessation of those activities, ergo, less content. All world loss . carebears, farmers, casual, hardcores, social, crafters etc, destroy the pillar, destroy the game.

      Money guild and Poe due to their low interest and little embarrassment in maintaining a competitive game (snaps * 100, then alliance =contend denied, monopoly economic = turn imposible competitive for 95%players) have a superlative economic power, the advantage they have is that besides having good gvg equipment they can start a fight of wear economical) this makes a long-term competitive gvg contention. POE does not offer content, it does not make the game more attractive, on the contrary, it contributes to making it more boring and that generates a domino effect that detonates to some extent in the lowering of players ... It is not only Poe but any other mechanics exploiter who find the way to avoid the pvp of medium, large scale, all those who evade the pvp by the Hce etc etc, those who support and indirectly support those operators of mechanics, as it is rent. for that same reason, to reverse the decline of the population, to revitalize the game. THOSE ACTORS SHOULD NOT BE IN THE ROUND TABLE. mechanics exploiters dont must be in the round table.

      You can agree or disagree with what has been raised, if you do not know the arguments now or you understand them, it's no longer my fault. the solid evidence is the sustained decrease of players, they get bored, because content is lacking, product to a profitable but insoluble game style. FINISH.

      Care bears = Destroy game

      The post was edited 10 times, last by marg93 ().

    • @marg93

      If you think POE don't create content you either don't play much or are very biased in your viewpoint.

      I'll one up you and present you with some hard data as well: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d…rR08U/edit#gid=2119195942

      If you look at Guild Rank (Sans GVG) tab on Zalrenic's pvp rankings sheet you'll see that the three most active guilds in POE (H&S, MG, CIR) account for 856 million kill fame last month, and remember, this tab is not counting any of our GvG kill fame. You don't achieve those kinds of numbers without producing content for the game as a whole.
      AO Quick Reference Guide
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      The post was edited 2 times, last by Grimhawke-EB: Grammar-Removed double negative ().

    • hamonteixeira wrote:

      Since this group came out in Albion, I only saw the powercreep increase. In my opinion, they can launch as many campaigns as they want to invite a friend that the game will never win enough players. The rules of this game are not favorable to new players and increasingly I see that they are being changed only to favor snowball and dominance of those who are already at the top of the food chain and to decrease the actual competition of new guilds and players. I do not know exactly who is making the decision, but hellgates are empty, treasure events are empty and game solo is dead.Sincerely, I would like Albion to create a truly balanced PVP environment, since his original idea was the constant conflict of all against all for the control of the world. It was to be chaotic and full of fights and not this joke that it is today, where ancient guilds think they can determine who can command and continue in command forever.

      There are players who pay rent for others to win a season. They are simply just waiting for the result produced by others who struggle on the battlefields. That's the crux for a game that should be PVP in first role. The top players in the game do not even go to GVG. This was to be a battle game and not a farm game.
      I argue against this power creep as do most on the RT. For some, the focus in on a certain aspect of power creep, as you might expect. One person might be more concerned with zerg power creep while another might be more concerned with gvg power creep. But it is discussed. I think most of us would like to find a way to curb power creep without punishing guilds for succeeding. Sometimes as solutions are getting brainstormed, we see more problems from the cure than from the disease. In the end, we're not the devs anyway. We don't have any real power and I think the concern about RT is a bit overblown sometimes. I've found I enjoy throwing out half ass ideas on less formal discords and forums than on RT more often than not anyway.

      As far as the implication that we pay money and let others struggle on the battlefield... that is quite accurate for gvg. But gvg is only part of owning a tower. The crusades against POE and RENT often end up with people trickling on down to RENT lands since we're predictably easier targets than POE generally. We get plenty of opportunities to put in some struggle for our towers. It's good for us and its good for the game. I have argued that mages died too quickly as an example of speaking out on behalf of tower owners -- but I do believe that generating content is good for the game and I like for my towers to be a source of content -- even at my own expense. Raiding mages is fun and can be a great source of content and my arguments are only ever directed at making sure that mages are doing a good job generating content. I have never argued about mages being the best source of income they possibly can be.

      EnErgEstER wrote:

      I think what may concern him and other people about rent having seats on the table is the same as poe having so many seats. They are like senators representing their guilds. Who obviously would have an underlying agenda. If there is someone for the people thats great. I would hope someone would be trying to represent the common soldiers.
      This is true for everyone on the RT. Those of us representing guilds that reached silver+ ranking fit this description quite neatly. There are players that represent their preferred play style whether that be solo play or the economy etc. We all have underlying biases. This is true even for the non renter GMs. Some of us may even have agendas that we're actively pursuing, but I do not believe that is everyone on the RT. I do believe most people on the RT push ideas that they do believe improve the game and I believe most times that they raise concerns on other ideas, it is not merely to block a power play but rather because there are real potential downsides to suggested changes.

      What do you mean "representing the people"? Who are "the people"? I represent my guild. While my opinions do not accurately represent everyone in my guild, I can probably get a reasonable approximation. The reason is because we are a community and our preferred content tends to line up pretty nicely. But what we like is not necessarily with players in CIR or BA or SAVAGE or any number of other guilds would like. That is why they have their GMs there to offer a perspective that represents those guilds.

      I like to think the devs are not idiots who blindly listen to everything the community suggests. I like to think they do not blindly follow what the RT suggests. I will tell you there are some issues talked about on RT that are agreed on relatively unanimously and the devs do not always have that as the top of their agenda. Perhaps there are concerns with the hassle to incorporate the suggestions or perhaps the devs do not deem it worth being a priority. There are times the RT is hotly divided on a polarizing issue and the devs I assume read a fair bit of it and go make their own decisions regardless. I do not say this as a criticism but rather the opposite. I think it is good to have a variety of perspectives and it is good that the devs make their own decisions. I do not agree with these three implications:

      1. That RENTers can only push an agenda that favors them (apparently more so even than other guild representatives)
      2. That having RENTers in RT means the devs will therefore build the game around our suggestions
      3a. That I agree with POE leaders on everything
      3b. That even POE leaders agree on everything with each other

      EnErgEstER wrote:

      Id prefer the round table to be view able by the public
      I suggested the same and I believe it has been suggested in the past before I arrived. There are pros and very real cons to having a transparent round table. But I also believe transparency is generally a good thing. After some feedback, I am comfortable either way.

      Gank wrote:

      RENT and POE do tend to hivemind a lot on the RT, but there are plenty of good threads and posts by them regardless.
      Thank you for the mostly-compliment. I do my best to be honest with my feedback and suggestions and not just motivated by self interest. I think it is a little ironic to get labeled as pro POE and pro gvg and pro Syndic and so many other things just because I am a GM of a RENT guild. I'm an individual same as everyone else and I have my own opinions. I've actually spent more time solo pvp than any other content in this game and love it. I have done small group pvp as my other favorite activity. I do not particularly love 5v5 content in HG and GvG. Perhaps if I were a better player, I would enjoy them more. I do not believe I will RENT forever. I have been in POE and found it to be a fair alliance and I have found Syndic and other POE leaders to be very fair people to me. I do not agree with everything they say and believe but I agree with many issues they raise. As sort of an example I think Syndic will get on an issue in the RT that he's passionate about and raise a good point. He'll then find a way to bend every topic to bring up that issue and that point again and again. While I agree with him generally, I can find him to be a bit of a turkey when he does this.

      There are others on the RT that are not in RENT or POE that I also find to be intelligent, reasonable individuals that generally raise good points when they speak up. Sometimes Syndic and others will have conflicting opinions and both are being intelligent and reasonable about it. It's not all a bunch of vendettas and agendas on there. With that said, there is indeed a fair bit of agendas and less reasonable dialogue that goes on as well.

      marg93 wrote:

      Sorry, but dont we need carebear players in roundtable... pls ,is not good for healthy game
      RENT=CANCER
      k

      Piddle wrote:

      Round Table members should have to have forum tags and in game tags to show they are on it.

      They get to sit on the other side of the wall the developers built between the two classes of players in AO. If Round Table players are going to come over to the pleb side of the forums just to talk about how great they are. We should be able to tell.
      Again, I think we're overvaluing the RT contributions to the game in general. Wait, when do RT members talk about how great they are? I would be fine with a tag. But you should know that RT members are all idiots just like everyone else. The tag doesn't mean anything.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Elenol ().

    • @marg93

      If you punish carebears and their playstyle, and mute them, you will lose a big portion of your population.

      However

      If you punish content creators as you define it, and mute them, you will also lose a big portion of your population.

      Imho both carebears need the content creators, and the contnet creators need the carebears.

      One category does not exclude the other.

      Also if you start muting carebars you open up a shithole of definitions. Sure RENT is carebear compared to super duper pvp guild, but that super duper pvp guild is carebear compared to gypsies, which in turn are carebear compared to blue army. Who defines how much carebear we are allowed to be to be heard?

      Also finally stop moving the goalposts. Wasn't some time ago anglia was supposed to be the place for carebears and new players starting out?When the content creators got their arses kicked in mercia and cumbria, do they move the goalposts and demand carebears move to royals? when they will be kicked out of anglia, will they argue to move carebears to blue zones?

      The post was edited 2 times, last by kreeshak ().

    • marg93 wrote:

      What is the quality and striking content of albion?

      Pvp open world and free loot, this is the main axis of albion, then it has ramifications and / or secondary activities that are sustained and / or depend on the main axis, if you do not agree, then stop reading.
      I do not believe this is true at a core level of what is required, I believe that for the good of the game that all aspects require a balanced and equal part in the integration of the game. If anything you could equally argue that the PvP requires the secondary activities [your words] just as much. Without farming/crafting/gathering/economy - there is no game.

      You can agree or disagree with what has been raised, if you do not know the arguments now or you understand them, it's no longer my fault. the solid evidence is the sustained decrease of players, they get bored, because content is lacking, product to a profitable but insoluble game style. FINISH.

      Care bears = Destroy game

      The solid evidence in the decreased number of players is in no way attributable to care bears destroying the game. If anything the 'care bears' allow you to play the game in the way you want, and for them to be able to play how they want. As it should be, in a sandbox game.
      Pre Patch 16 UO Player - Casual PK/Carebear Crafter - Now Old.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Barathorn ().

    • I've noticed that some people from the round table will openly discuss/create topics that are being talked about internally. So, if that's not a problem (idc either way), why not just have the Round Table discussion board visible to the public? Lock it down so that only people with the proper access can make posts there.

      If you don't mind the transparency, then other players could piggyback off the discussions, using the main forum, to provide even more feedback.
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

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    • Barathorn wrote:

      marg93 wrote:

      What is the quality and striking content of albion?

      Pvp open world and free loot, this is the main axis of albion, then it has ramifications and / or secondary activities that are sustained and / or depend on the main axis, if you do not agree, then stop reading.
      I do not believe this is true at a core level of what is required, I believe that for the good of the game that all aspects require a balanced and equal part in the integration of the game. If anything you could equally argue that the PvP requires the secondary activities [your words] just as much. Without farming/crafting/gathering/economy - there is no game.
      You can agree or disagree with what has been raised, if you do not know the arguments now or you understand them, it's no longer my fault. the solid evidence is the sustained decrease of players, they get bored, because content is lacking, product to a profitable but insoluble game style. FINISH.

      Care bears = Destroy game
      The solid evidence in the decreased number of players is in no way attributable to care bears destroying the game. If anything the 'care bears' allow you to play the game in the way you want, and for them to be able to play how they want. As it should be, in a sandbox game.
      I speak about balance , Content Creators need carebears, and carebears need Content Creators... But you need a optimal balance , numbers decreased because content decreased , HCE = carebear mechanic... you need nerf hce ... We need a lot things for reinforce the balance
    • Fusionbomb wrote:

      I've noticed that some people from the round table will openly discuss/create topics that are being talked about internally. So, if that's not a problem (idc either way), why not just have the Round Table discussion board visible to the public? Lock it down so that only people with the proper access can make posts there.

      If you don't mind the transparency, then other players could piggyback off the discussions, using the main forum, to provide even more feedback.
      TBH Is some discussions and posts that should never be made privy to all. After getting round table access, I started reading some of the posts people made I ended up losing all respect for some of the people who I previously held in high regard. I also believe that people would not be as honest and blunt with their statements and opinions if they knew everyone that ever created an account here could read what they wrote.