Suggestion for dagger line

    • Zpike wrote:

      go ahead and try for yourself tell me how was your experience

      71 base, 30 spec on 1h dagger

      I went to Cairn Taul (T5 bz) and ran two solo dungeons (killing about 20-25% of the mobs + bosses), it took right at 18 minutes including the running between dungeons (and no buff shrines inside). My total fame was about 105k.

      That would be ~300k/hr, if I continued. Here's the build I was using:



      (I used a catfish in the first dungeon, and a beef stew in the second... took about the same amount of time.)

      Edit - My conclusion: I could have gotten better gear, but I wanted to do it as a shit player with shit gear. Do you think 300k/hr is terrible?

      Another Edit - There is also the 25% fame buff going on.... so I guess it would actually be ~240k/hr.
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

      T8 Axe/Sickle/Pickaxe/Skinning/Stone
      T7 Fishing

      400 Holy Spec

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Fusionbomb ().

    • Fusionbomb wrote:

      Zpike wrote:

      go ahead and try for yourself tell me how was your experience
      71 base, 30 spec on 1h dagger

      I went to Cairn Taul (T5 bz) and ran two solo dungeons (killing about 20-25% of the mobs + bosses), it took right at 18 minutes including the running between dungeons (and no buff shrines inside). My total fame was about 105k.

      That would be ~300k/hr, if I continued. Here's the build I was using:



      (I used a catfish in the first dungeon, and a beef stew in the second... took about the same amount of time.)

      Edit - My conclusion: I could have gotten better gear, but I wanted to do it as a shit player with shit gear. Do you think 300k/hr is terrible?
      Thank you for giving this a go, i appreciate it.
      Tomorrow when i get to play again i will do more testing about fame per hour, it was not my intention at first but it's interesting.. I think i do around 600k/hr using(not tested) using the following gears :
      Stalker hood
      Stalker jacket
      Soldier boots
      Thetford Cape
      Bloodletter
      Mistcaller
      all T6, doing T6 dungeon

      Tactic : using chain slash, resetting it with lunging stab, and casting chain slash again, supported by stalker jacket to get to execute range.

      When i can say it's not terrible, i mean before the solo random dungeons it was hell lot worse... (I was killing load of rhinos before roaming mobs became a thing)
      with another weapon (in my case spears, but i can say that for many more weapons.) and much less focused build on dungeon clear and more on counter ganking.. I could finish dungeons lot faster, with much better quality of life.. so most likely more fame per hour with less optimal build.

      I'm sure you could tell that the moment you get 3~4+ mobs on you, killing them one by one might force you to drink a potion or reset the fight or put you very low since you keep getting hit until you clear them all slowly 1 by 1, and overall not a smooth dungeon experience.. most likely will turn most players away from playing the weapon.

      That is why i really think, that they should add something that will be bad for pvp adding nothing to the table, but somehow let you clear a dungeon like everyone else..
      again i'm not a game design expert, but i do play albion a long time.. and i think since it's not a thing for faming in a party, it should get some love for solo dungeon.

      Imagine faming claw / and dagger pairs in this situation, 1h and bloodletter have it tough already. There are lot of ways around which already mentioned like credits, tomes.. but why not actually playing the weapon ?
    • Zpike wrote:

      I could finish dungeons lot faster, with much better quality of life.. so most likely more fame per hour with less optimal build.
      Correct. Before random dungeons, the best [reliable] solo fame AFAIK was using 1h spear (stalker hood/soldier armor/guardian boots/T3 ox). An experienced player (who knew the mob camps in areas like Hungry Mire) could get 500-600k/hr.

      Since then, RDs were introduced + all mob fame was increased 25%.

      Zpike wrote:

      I'm sure you could tell that the moment you get 3~4+ mobs on you, killing them one by one might force you to drink a potion or reset the fight or put you very low since you keep getting hit until you clear them all slowly

      most likely will turn most players away from playing the weapon.
      I had to be careful about certain pulls, yes. Though I never got downed and the only time or two I came close was due to my carelessness.

      That is the trade off to me... no weapon excels in every playstyle/activity, as none of them should. The dagger line is extremely proficient with ST deeps (world bosses/mages/1v1). Arcane and Curse are proficient at support (large groups). The mace/hammer lines are proficient at CC.

      When I run PvE groups, in a small group of 5, I would have no problem including a blood letter + different dagger (1 of each). For example:

      tank
      healer
      bloodletter (stalker hood/stalker jacket)
      1h dagger/claws/dagger pair (mage cowl/stalker jacket)
      longbow/great fire/spear/halberd/great frost (scholar cowl/mage robe)

      Edit: details/clarity
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

      T8 Axe/Sickle/Pickaxe/Skinning/Stone
      T7 Fishing

      400 Holy Spec

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Fusionbomb ().

    • I been testing random dungeons, so around 3 dungeons depending on how long they are is around 300k fame more or less..

      Using :
      Stalker hood
      Stalker jacket
      Soldier boots
      Thetford Cape
      Bloodletter ( my spec is 87 )
      Mistcaller ( spec is maxed )
      all T6, doing T6 dungeon

      It took me an hour to complete 3 dungeons, with walking around and i skipped shrines for testing..

      Using :
      Heron spear
      Leering cane
      Stalker hood
      Assassin jacket
      Soldier boots
      Regular cape

      Took me around 35 minute to complete 3 dungeons, rushing through every mob.. so i would say 500k more or less..

      This can never be accurate because it takes time to find a dungeon, sometime there are 2-3 or more floors and other bosses..

      I'm not sure it matter anymore if its faster or slower to fame.. the real problem is lack of AoE make every encounter a bad experience..
      also playing around with chain slash left me energy hungry and i had to wait a lot before each boss, and mobs..
      it is however pretty decent if you reset it with bloodletter and cast it twice on mobs... if not a new AoE Q.. a slight buff for less energy on chain slash can be ok.
    • Jesus christ....
      The devs should just make a bunch of different looking weapons all with exactly the same skills and damage. That way it'd be perfectly equal and all weapons would be the same at everything. You know what though? Then you'd bitch that one weapon looks cooler than the other.

      All weapons aren't created equal and its just how it is...you can't have all of the weapons being just as good at every different situation in the game, it just won't work. If you're complaining about joining a FF you're just a cry baby when I leveled daggers there wasn't 1m+ fame an hour it was 250k if I was incredibly lucky. It is so incredibly easy right now to level any weapons. Can't get in with dagger to FF? Max out another weapon and use fame credits.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by ViLEuo ().

    • ViLEuo wrote:

      Jesus christ....
      The devs should just make a bunch of different looking weapons all with exactly the same skills and damage. That way it'd be perfectly equal and all weapons would be the same at everything. You know what though? Then you'd bitch that one weapon looks cooler than the other.

      All weapons aren't created equal and its just how it is...you can't have all of the weapons being just as good at every different situation in the game, it just won't work. If you're complaining about joining a FF you're just a cry baby when I leveled daggers there wasn't 1m+ fame an hour it was 250k if I was incredibly lucky. It is so incredibly easy right now to level any weapons. Can't get in with dagger to FF? Max out another weapon and use fame credits.
      Ok first, you have problem reading and understanding what we are talking about or what you call it "complaining" about. so i suggest you first do that.

      And now since you are Mr.dagger expert, how about you please enlighten us on what daggers are good at comparing to other weapons ?
      all it is right now is little bit of mobility.. burst ? there are many other better options that are easier to fame with.. which is all this post is about nothing else..

      so since you tag me as a cry baby, did you see me complaining 2 years ago killing rhinos before roaming mobs became a thing ? do you see me opening a post about how daggers should be good for group FF ? did i not mention the alternative ways to get dagger spec / level ?

      If you don't have anything smart to say, and you don't even bother reading.. but naming people is your thing.. i suggest you just move on..
    • FriendlyFire wrote:

      Zpike wrote:

      And now since you are Mr.dagger expert, how about you please enlighten us on what daggers are good at comparing to other weapons ?
      Ganking? 2v2 hellgates? Any small scale open world fighting, including 1v1? Daggers are top tier for all of these.
      I didn't ask you, i asked the expert. It's not top tier, there are much better options..i'm not saying they are not viable for what you did mention tho..

      So why the other weapons are also good or top tier at "Ganking? 2v2 hellgates? Any small scale open world fighting, including 1v1?" while still able to be good and viable for other activity as well ? you can't give a good answer to that ?

      The fact is most of the game activities doesn't even want daggers..bad for solo dungeon, bad for group dungeon, bad for gvg, bad for zvz, also bad for your imaginary non exist 1v1
      So you get to play your 5 spec weapon for activity that require maxed specs.. and can't do 70-80% of what the game has to offer..

      Good but still can be compared and can be replaced for HG, Ganking, Any Small scale, and Open world fighting.. I don't deny they are good weapon, but other weapons can just do the same if not better.. it's much more limited if anything.. not top tier at all.
      You still don't point out the weapons that can be compared and the weapons that already do much better job at what it was made for..

      The post is about solo dungeon fame farming, i don't care if it's good for ganking if you can't fame it by playing the weapon.. sure play your healer and spec your dagger..that also sound so much fun, you never played claw outside ganking but it's magically 100/100.. make so much sense...

      I already said what i wanted about the weapon, there is no point to keep argue anymore so that will be the last time i replay to things like "but the weapon is good for this and that, so it has to be bad for that and this" when in reality there are weapon lines who are good for everything.. i can't say the same for any other weapon.. end of story nothing more to add from me.

      You people starting going off topic too much, no one here is complaining about daggers.. i give you a facts that it's not good for solo dungeon so there is limited ways to play and fame the weapon.. and i suggest a way to fix it.. the weapon scream for the need of viable AoE so you can farm decently.
    • Zpike wrote:

      So why the other weapons are also good or top tier at "Ganking? 2v2 hellgates? Any small scale open world fighting, including 1v1?" while still able to be good and viable for other activity as well ? you can't give a good answer to that ?
      Dagger is great at those things and good at solo dungeons. Other weapons are better at solo dungeons, and worse at those things. Weapons have different advantages. What's the problem?

      Zpike wrote:

      also bad for your imaginary non exist 1v1
      I don't understand how you keep saying this. There are so many people constantly putting up youtube montages of their solo PvP. It's a competition between warbow and dagger which is most popular. Here's just one solo dagger video from OakTree, and he has literally dozens of these on his channel.



      Zpike wrote:

      The post is about solo dungeon fame farming
      Which daggers are fine at. Clearly much better than any support or tank weapon. Fame in general has gotten so much easier, these complaints just make no sense. No daggers aren't the best for faming, but many people got their daggers to 100 spec before solo dungeons and even before fame credits.
    • matmatu wrote:

      Try a to do a solo random dj with a greataxe. Compare and come back guys. You will see.
      yup, and then tell me how the greataxe will do if you get dove, even by 1 person?

      I run greataxe all the time, and its amazing for PVE - for PVP on the other hand, you really need a specialized build to make sure you not get countered. And that PVP build (if you do it right) will slow down your PVE clear speed - bringing it in line with daggers.

      So yeah - running dagger to clear dungeons (solo or group), means you sacrifice clearing speed for better PVP viability. A real trade off - like it should be.

      Working as intended.
    • Captainrussia wrote:

      matmatu wrote:

      Try a to do a solo random dj with a greataxe. Compare and come back guys. You will see.
      yup, and then tell me how the greataxe will do if you get dove, even by 1 person?
      I run greataxe all the time, and its amazing for PVE - for PVP on the other hand, you really need a specialized build to make sure you not get countered. And that PVP build (if you do it right) will slow down your PVE clear speed - bringing it in line with daggers.

      So yeah - running dagger to clear dungeons (solo or group), means you sacrifice clearing speed for better PVP viability. A real trade off - like it should be.

      Working as intended.
      so u will pvp with a attack speed dagger and lose your life?
      or make some dungeons with claws? With a great axe you will deal more dmg to monster and people =)
      I do it since 1 week and i have no problem for the pvp
    • matmatu wrote:

      so u will pvp with a attack speed dagger and lose your life?
      or make some dungeons with claws? With a great axe you will deal more dmg to monster and people =)
      I do it since 1 week and i have no problem for the pvp
      1h dagger with % HP debuff is the only issue, and is an exception, altho Im sure there is a way to make it work. But I won't go there as I dont have enough experiance PVPing with it.

      I've ran solo PVE content in Stonetop Sink (best solo PVE and solo PVP zone pre-F2P and pre-Oberon RDG) with claws and dual daggers and bloodletter - and have been able to get decent fame (300-400k/hr, again - this is pre-Oberon) while being able to stand up 1v1 to any PVP'er.

      Not saying that Greataxe sucks for PVP (its pretty decent), just saying that its a bit less optimal for PVP compared to a dagger, unless you optimize it, losing some PVE potential. Anything with a mini-stun/knock/silence will cancel your E and make you pretty useless (unless you compensate and run knight helm or something else - as I've already mentioned).

      So there is your trade off: running dagger for PVE means you have to optimize it for PVE (its amazing for PVP), running Greataxe for PVE - means you have to optimize it for PVP, otherwise you'll get countered easily. Both are different weapons and both have trade offs. Same goes for spear or any other weapon you think it "amazing" for PVE.
    • Captainrussia wrote:

      matmatu wrote:

      so u will pvp with a attack speed dagger and lose your life?
      or make some dungeons with claws? With a great axe you will deal more dmg to monster and people =)
      I do it since 1 week and i have no problem for the pvp
      1h dagger with % HP debuff is the only issue, and is an exception, altho Im sure there is a way to make it work. But I won't go there as I dont have enough experiance PVPing with it.
      I've ran solo PVE content in Stonetop Sink (best solo PVE and solo PVP zone pre-F2P and pre-Oberon RDG) with claws and dual daggers and bloodletter - and have been able to get decent fame (300-400k/hr, again - this is pre-Oberon) while being able to stand up 1v1 to any PVP'er.

      Not saying that Greataxe sucks for PVP (its pretty decent), just saying that its a bit less optimal for PVP compared to a dagger, unless you optimize it, losing some PVE potential. Anything with a mini-stun/knock/silence will cancel your E and make you pretty useless (unless you compensate and run knight helm or something else - as I've already mentioned).

      So there is your trade off: running dagger for PVE means you have to optimize it for PVE (its amazing for PVP), running Greataxe for PVE - means you have to optimize it for PVP, otherwise you'll get countered easily. Both are different weapons and both have trade offs. Same goes for spear or any other weapon you think it "amazing" for PVE.
      No it's not the "only issue", what are you talking about???

      You need to use the item before you comment on it.

      1h-dagger you need to stand in one spot to actually get the DPS boost because the skill adds stacks every 1 second, and if you move out of a damage bubble, for 1 second, you lose all 3 stacks.

      It's a completely broken and useless weapon. You have to stand IN ONE SPOT because moving, being stunned, being knocked back, etc. all remove your stacks.
    • Theat wrote:

      It's a completely broken and useless weapon. You have to stand IN ONE SPOT because moving, being stunned, being knocked back, etc. all remove your stacks.
      This is also true for boltcasters (minus the stacks, but it's a channeled ability).

      If you want high ST burst, you need to stand still.
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

      T8 Axe/Sickle/Pickaxe/Skinning/Stone
      T7 Fishing

      400 Holy Spec
    • Fusionbomb wrote:

      Theat wrote:

      It's a completely broken and useless weapon. You have to stand IN ONE SPOT because moving, being stunned, being knocked back, etc. all remove your stacks.
      This is also true for boltcasters (minus the stacks, but it's a channeled ability).
      If you want high ST burst, you need to stand still.
      1h-dagger is much worse, because the cast-time of boltcaster is small. For 1h-dagger you have to literally stand in one spot for about 8 seconds to get the dps out of it.

      If you're interrupted on the boltcaster channel, at least you did 50% of your damage. Not the same for 1h-dagger, where sometimes you literally have to run around in circles, after a mob, after a player, trying to auto-attack them to regain 3 stacks.
    • Theat wrote:

      No it's not the "only issue", what are you talking about???
      I meant that as "1h dagger is the only issue in the whole dagger line" when talking in context of PVE. All other daggers work fine for both PVE and PVP (as I explained - slower PVE farm, because you're basically having a "PVP bonus" when using daggers)

      Theat wrote:

      You need to use the item before you comment on it.
      I've used it after the E skill remake and lvl'ed up the spec from 0-50 solo in Stonetop Sink. Personally I'd like to test it more (just have not had the time) before I say whether its good or bad. There are HCE builds with 1h dagger and its nice for raiding mages. Its not all that bad, but its not amazing either. Has its own niche I suppose. And I "think" (yes quotes) that I could make it work in PVP, but again - more testing is required before I commit to that statement.

      But it works ok in PVE.

      Theat wrote:

      You need to use the item before you comment on it.

      1h-dagger you need to stand in one spot to actually get the DPS boost because the skill adds stacks every 1 second, and if you move out of a damage bubble, for 1 second, you lose all 3 stacks.
      And if you lose all 3 stacks, you get them back pretty fast, in about 1.5-2 sec, and even with Torch offhand I had difficulty getting all 3 stacks up (between spamming Q), so the stacking thing is not that amazing anyway. The biggest bonus is the E itself (135 magic DMG to all autos), the attk speed bonus almost seems irrelevant anyway as you'd be pretty much hitting the attack speed softcap with it...

      Theat wrote:

      It's a completely broken and useless weapon. You have to stand IN ONE SPOT because moving, being stunned, being knocked back, etc. all remove your stacks.
      True, but my argument is that keeping stacks up is not critical. So even if you lose stacks - you can either get them back in like 2 sec or just not care about them as the bonus appears to be fairly low. Again, thats my "limited" observation from solo lvling up the weapon.

      And the argument of the entire thread is about all other daggers (lets leave 1h dagger alone and just agree that maybe it needs a rework or more testing) - to which I already made my argument - they clear slower as they give you better PVP viability.
    • Theat wrote:

      If you're interrupted on the boltcaster channel, at least you did 50% of your damage.
      I disagree. The majority of the damage comes later, as each tick of damage increases throughout the channel.

      I will agree that the standtime between each autoattack (in addition to health debuff) is what screws the 1h dagger over, on a moving target.
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

      T8 Axe/Sickle/Pickaxe/Skinning/Stone
      T7 Fishing

      400 Holy Spec