Island Workshops.... does a niche market exist? check my math please

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    • Island Workshops.... does a niche market exist? check my math please

      TLDR - save 5.6k to 16k~ silver / stack even with the lower resource return rate


      So... I made a guild island planning to "rent out the place" and built a t5 stone mason / t5?(might be t4) tanner in there so far in bridgewatch
      I was planning a business model where You pay me a relatively cheap weekly/monthly fee for access to low prices.
      And So I did the math and how so very sad it was.

      But with such a huge investment... well huge for me atleast. I wanted to find some use of it.

      After more calculations:

      At the current-ish market, it was better to use my facility @ T4 stone, comparing 40% taxrate in town vs 6% tax rate I would charge.

      Lets say I have a starting amount of 1000 T3 blocks and 2000 T4 rocks

      Example with focus:

      in town @ 53% return rate, 40% tax or 28 refining fee
      I would end up refining 2127~ blocks total
      59574~ in refining fees total

      in island @48% return rate, 6% tax or 4.2 refining fee
      i would end up refining 1923~ blocks total
      8076~ in refining fees total

      So the difference is:

      204~ more T4 blocks vs 51497~ in refining savings
      51497~ / 204~ = 251~
      so the break even point is a price point of 251~ per T4 block

      selling T4 blocks for 200.... saves 10581 silver in refining costs
      selling it for 170 which is where I usually find the lowest sale orders... you save 16718 silver
      selling it for 150 which is the high buy order price I see... you save 20810

      Example without focus:

      in town @ 35% return rate, 40% tax or 28 refining fee
      1538~ blocks
      43076~ in refining fees

      in island @ 26% return rate, 6% tax or 4.2 refining fee
      1351 blocks
      5675~ in refining fees

      187~ more blocks vs 37401~ silver

      break even point is around 199~
      if selling it for 170 save 5593 silver
      if selling it for 150 save 9335 silver


      For this to work in T5 the in town tax rate has to be like 78~%+ or so estimated based on current market prices.
      For this to work in T3 the sale price point is around 107~ to break even or so
      Will never work for T2 because refining is free in town
      T6-T8 doesnt matter simply because mine is only T5.

      So why does it work for T4? because T4 is severly underpriced in the market in comparison to others in my opinion.
      And the lower the price of the returned item relative to its item value the better deal this is.
      But this also means the price relative to focus cost is worse, therefor you should probably spend focus else where.

      because the whole Idea is to refine less times/cost per, it also means you get less fame, which I believe works to about 10% lost fame.

      So would anyone be interested? Offers? access is per guild probably rather than per individual

      I was thinking it would be bring your own food and I will just give a decent reward per 1000 nutrition.
      tax rate might change but I am calculating stone refining @ 6% seems to be fair.

      I think a T4 costs 1 nutrition per refine?
      if so, i would get 4200 oer 1000 nutrition usage.
      if I pay 4000 per 1k nutrition

      bean salad is 154 nutrition per salad to the mason
      1000/154 = 6.5~ salads
      4000 / 6.5~ = 615~ per salad pay out (albion online 2d seems to list it @ 598 right now) giving who ever feeds it profit of 17 per salad, more if you get it cheaper.

      prices not final.
      For example it seems feeding it eggs would be way cheaper?
      I haven't calculated that yet I just went with fave food. if it ends up cheaper then I can offer even better prices.

      But that is the basic idea.

    • I just kinda skimmed, and I've never worked the hard math on refining or crafting stations, but to answer your question as to why T4 seems so underpriced - might it be because of the exact "loophole" you seem to have found?

      Also, and I'm still hoarding or using pretty much everything I've gathered/acquired (I started in May), so I haven't done much market sales comparison - maybe in the RCs the market is just so flooded with the f2p players that stick to blue/yellow gathering zones and never try to sell their T4 in Caerleon or the outland markets?

      Additionally (especially since you're talking specifically about stone/blocks), there was a huge demand after f2p for resources like stone in T4 and lower because of all the new f2p players building stations on islands much the same way you did and now that they've all developed their buildings beyond T4 there's no longer a demand.

      That's the rookie mistake I made as a quarrier starting out in Martlock, I didn't put the stone I'd gathered on the marketplace when it was trading at 1k+ 6-8 weeks ago and now I can barely sell it for 300. || But I'll just end up using it personally most likely, either to raise refining and/or building crap on my islands.

      I've got my farms working so I'm going to spend July figuring out laborers, which means I'm gonna build a lot of houses. I have 2 personal islands maxed out plus a T4 Guild island so I've got plenty of empty building plots to burn a few thousand lower tier blocks.
      1.23.40b patch UO Feluccian from Minoc, Pacifica.

      The post was edited 5 times, last by TheArimatheus ().

    • Correct.
      I'll tell you more.
      For example, currently It's more profitable to refine cloth in Fort then in Lymhurst)
      To compare i'm using simple formula delta fee - delta % * raw resources cost (value of difference in return)
      So globally there is also competition between cities, which looks great.
      WTB skill

      The post was edited 2 times, last by gmatagmis ().

    • You should not compare total end result in blocks.
      But the resources returned you get.
      Cuz the final price is directly connected to the return rate.
      for T4 example with 35% return rate with no focus and 40% tax it breaks even but it depends on the supply and demand.
      If in some cases personal/guild island shop is viable for T4, there is no point people using yours and not their own as T4 refiner is almost free to built :D
    • Just to make sure we're on the same page, in the calculations you refine everything you get back into more blocks and would end up left with < 1 block worth of raw mats.

      That is why you are left with "more blocks" vs "refining savings" as comparison.

      If your not making more blocks why did you make them in the first place? (Unless you need limited amount)
      By that I mean, if you make more profit in the raw material form why did you refine even 1 if the goal was silver?

      Its the 10%~ fame lost I haven't calculated in comparison to the savings.
      So I'll try calculating that now.

      Display Spoiler

      t3 block costs 130, t4 rocks costs 70x2
      total cost is 270 / block

      with focus:

      51497 savings to work with

      204 / 1.92 = 107~
      107 * 270 = 28890 silver costs of mats to end with the missing 204 blocks
      204 * 4.2 = 856.8 additional refining costs
      51497 - 28890 - 856.8 = savings that ends in the same fame/blocks amount

      without focus:

      43076 savings to work with

      187 / 1.35 = 139~
      139 * 270 = 37530 silver costs of mats to end with the missing 187 blocks
      187 * 4.2 = 766~ refining costs
      43076 - 37530 - 766 = 4780~ total savings that ends in the same fame / blocks amount

      TLDR: You save even if you use the savings to cover the missing fame/blocks.

      The thing about building your own t4 facility - yes you can build your own.
      But then
      1. it still requires some investment much bigger than what I would charge monthly I would think. I of course can't charge something not worth it to a user.
      2. You would be losing out on a building plot you can use for labourers. Its more efficient to have say 20 guilds have 1 house each + access to my facility than 20 guilds building a t4 refinery each.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Scruble: Corrected math and for clarity of text ().

    • Has anyone found information on overall nutrition cost for various refining work? I think OP is right, one nutrition unit required for each unit of stone block IV produced. Then about 2.5 units of nutrition for each unit of block V produced. The cost of nutrition varies with the market. As of yesterday, the cost of stonemason favorite food (bean salad) in Bridgewatch averaged about 900 and gives 77 nutrition. Since the cheapest source of nutrition is carrot soup at the moment (368 silver for 77 nutrition), it is cheaper to feed a stonemason carrot soup even with the 2x multiplier for bean salad.

      This means the break-even cost of feeding stonemasons is about 2400 silver per 1000 nutrition (in Bridgewatch, as of yesterday). But what should be the break-even tax? That is, if I operated a stonemason and wanted to charge a tax that took in silver at the same rate as nutrition was consumed, what would be that tax rate? The tax rate is used to calculate the tax by %rate x 5 x finished product value ; so I need to know if the relationship between finished product value and nutrition required to produce it is related (otherwise, some refining will cost more than the nutrient value I set, and other will cost less).