Spear class is the only class not usable in high level ZVZ, Buff It!

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    • Spear class is the only class not usable in high level ZVZ, Buff It!

      As of now, all weapon classes have their own uses in high level zvz, except for spear class. Unlike 5v5s where you can be creative and have alot of comp and uses uncommon weapons, zvz can't .

      The aim should be making at least one weapon in all weapon classes usable in high level ZvZ. Please bump this.

      Suggestion: Rework E of one of the spears / buff 1H spear knock up duration to as much as soulscythe's duration

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Jazzio ().

    • I guess you are missing the point. The opportunity cost is way too high, thats why you don't ever see such weapon class in high level ZvZ.

      Occult staff did it way better than trinity including powerful Q and W, think about the opportunity cost if you use that trinity's 50% movement speed from just the E, with basically useless Q and W. Any sane person would go for occult staff in that case.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Jazzio ().

    • Heron Spear E to follow up on Camlann stuns is viable. Its the same thing you use a grovekeepers/soul scythe/etc for.

      Grovekeeper is E -> Slams.

      Heron is E -> Forest of Spears.

      Soul Sytche just has the E.

      The tactics for ZvZ is really quite simple. Air Compressor / Vendetta ppl into a clump. Follow up with stun to re-stun people who popped merc hoods. Drop DPS.
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by Abydon ().

    • Abydon wrote:

      Heron Spear E to follow up on Camlann stuns is viable. Its the same thing you use a grovekeepers/soul scythe/etc for.
      I agree Heron is also viable for zvz. However, following a stun with a stun would reduce the duration (diminishing return), so I think a Trinity (root) would be better in your example.
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

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    • Fusionbomb wrote:

      Abydon wrote:

      Heron Spear E to follow up on Camlann stuns is viable. Its the same thing you use a grovekeepers/soul scythe/etc for.
      I agree Heron is also viable for zvz. However, following a stun with a stun would reduce the duration (diminishing return), so I think a Trinity (root) would be better in your example.
      In practice, stunlocking with multiple stuns until the E kills everyone is the basic doctrine of ZvZs.

      Trident might be more efficient if DPS didn't run cleric robes.

      Root = Cleric Robes popped = Clapped targets live.
      Stunlock = No Cleric Robes popped = Clapped targets die.
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    • Of course anything can work in a small scale zvz, you can read the topic title, this is not about small scale zvz by small guilds.

      You guys forgot to look at the opportunity cost

      anyone would bring grovekeeper anytime if you are going to stun a round aoe,
      heron spear just get blocked by frontline most of the time, even if you are successful, the aoe is too small especially when you will just hit the 1st person in the chain stun aoe, means half of the aoe is empty air if you get what I'm saying.
      Any sane person would go for grovekeeper anytime,
      There can be a lot of theory, but in practical nope it doesnt work

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Jazzio ().

    • Spear is definitely on the weaker end of zvz weapons, trinity and heron being the only real options. I think Trinity is pretty good but it’s not really excelling in its role. It’s more of a utility.
      Herons fine but once again it’s treading the line between utility and dmg.

      Zvz weapons should really be specific in their role, as befitting a zvz comp. when you have enough pple to specialize, Spears don’t really specialize anywhere in zvz. They don’t have the same dps burst. Frost is sort of similar, in that it does the 1/2 dmg 1/2 cc thing and suffers in zvz because of it.
    • owensssss wrote:

      Spear is definitely on the weaker end of zvz weapons, trinity and heron being the only real options. I think Trinity is pretty good but it’s not really excelling in its role. It’s more of a utility.
      Herons fine but once again it’s treading the line between utility and dmg.

      Zvz weapons should really be specific in their role, as befitting a zvz comp. when you have enough pple to specialize, Spears don’t really specialize anywhere in zvz. They don’t have the same dps burst. Frost is sort of similar, in that it does the 1/2 dmg 1/2 cc thing and suffers in zvz because of it.
      Exactly true about the spear, it is totally outclassed by almost all other weapon classes in any role you decided to go.
      Trinity is outclassed totally by even a T4 occult staff.
      Heron is like totally useless you only get half the pie for its total aoe, not to mention its hard to get pass any frontline to stun the backline.
      This class doesnt have the utility if compared to occult staff and other stun weapons, and it doesnt have the dps as well in those zvz.

      I am going to the extend to call it a totally useless class in those high level zvz, developers should at least let one weapon of each class to be on par with other classes in those end game content. It would be fair to those who are going to full spec spear, like its fair to those that going full spec in all other weapon classes.


      However I don't agree with the frost staff, you have a massive damage and frozen from permafrost, you can even have a full utility icicle tank which is as good as any tank especially in a high level zvz (used by one of the Oops in the last city 20v20 zvz fight and used alot in open world), and if you are going simple, you can be on great frost. Basically the best dps utility role in the game.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Jazzio ().