SBI, Is still allowed to create applications that analyze the network traffic from the game?

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • SBI, Is still allowed to create applications that analyze the network traffic from the game?

      I am interested in creating a tool that basically analyze the network communication between the client and the server and store that open data to store and provide that information to players.

      I know there's already a position from SBI:
      forum.albiononline.com/index.p…?postID=512670#post512670

      But could anyone from SBI confirm if this position is still valid, mainly after latest terms of service changes?

    • Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Forneus wrote:

      If you're in the EU you're allowed to analyze any packages on your network, even alter the ones being sent to you.
      I'd love to see a source for that, especially for that last part because it is total bullcrap.
      It isn't, when a package is on your network, it's considered your property, legally speaking. Nothing too fancy about it in terms of law. What you then decide to send to their servers(their property) is entirely up to them if they want to accept it. It's a neat vice versa. So if you send them modified packages, well... Enjoy the ban :)

      Remember their ToS isn't above the law. This is the EU, not the US. Their ToS is rendered useless if it conflicts with laws. They don't get to write the law, after all this isn't a banana republic.

    • Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Forneus wrote:

      It isn't, when a package is on your network, it's considered your property, legally speaking.
      Yes, and neither server software nor client are your property to tamper with "packages" between them. It doesnt matter what country you are in... unless you live in "banana republic" yourself.
      Dude if you don't know what you are talking about, why even speak?

      and "unless you live in "banana republic" yourself." is probably the lamest "comeback" I've ever heard.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rolu ().

    • Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Forneus wrote:

      It isn't, when a package is on your network, it's considered your property, legally speaking.
      Yes, and neither server software nor client are your property to tamper with "packages" between them. It doesnt matter what country you are in... unless you live in "banana republic" yourself.
      Anything on your network is your property and also your LEGAL responsibility, which is why if your network is used for illegal activities you risk having to lift the burden of evidence to prove your innocence or face legal problems. ( This is quite shitty since so many people have internet but they got no clue what happens on their network nor do they have the means to look into it, but it is what it is )

      You don't own the code, this is not what we're talking about, which is copyright laws etc.. Packages are a data transmission and you are legally allowed to tamper and sniff out said data. I'm also allowed to decompile/reverse engineer SBI's binaries and LOOK at it, I can't use it for much really, as that would be theft of SBIs intellectual property.

      Funny thing is, in Germany certain parts of what I'm mentioning are in fact illegal due to the tools one uses to do this(Scapy etc.):
      arstechnica.com/information-te…say-it-breeds-insecurity/

      This does not matter though, legally speaking, since they are distributing their product to the entire world, so for us EU citizens at least, this means that SBI can't do jack shit, as inner market/eu laws apply and will supersede German law in this specific context.

    • Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Forneus wrote:

      It isn't, when a package is on your network, it's considered your property, legally speaking.
      Yes, and neither server software nor client are your property to tamper with "packages" between them. It doesnt matter what country you are in... unless you live in "banana republic" yourself.
      Here if you actually care at all, i guess you would want to read up on things:

      The section states:
      (f) Reverse Engineering.—
      (1)
      Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who
      has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may
      circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a
      particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying
      and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to
      achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program
      with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available
      to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such
      acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under
      this title.
      (2) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2)
      and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to
      circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded
      by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and
      analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling
      interoperability of an independently created computer program with other
      programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability,
      to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this
      title.
      (3) The information acquired through the acts permitted under
      paragraph (1), and the means permitted under paragraph (2), may be made
      available to others if the person referred to in paragraph (1) or (2),
      as the case may be, provides such information or means solely for the
      purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created
      computer program with other programs, and to the extent that doing so
      does not constitute infringement under this title or violate applicable
      law other than this section.
      (4) For purposes of this subsection, the
      term 「interoperability」 means the ability of computer programs to
      exchange information, and of such programs mutually to use the
      information which has been exchanged.

      eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conten…1496&uri=CELEX:32009L0024
      eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/L…=CELEX:31991L0250:EN:HTML

    • Forneus wrote:

      Here if you actually care at all, i guess you would want to read up on things:
      Nice.
      "The unauthorised reproduction, translation, adaptation or transformation of the form of the code in which a copy of a computer program has been made available constitutes an infringement of the exclusive rights of the author."
      "an exception to the author's exclusive rights may not be used in a way which prejudices the legitimate interests of the rightholder or which conflicts with a normal exploitation of the program."

      These clauses exist in both legal documents. Exception only applies if you have to solve some "interoperability" problem which i highly doubt you have.

    • Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Forneus wrote:

      Here if you actually care at all, i guess you would want to read up on things:
      Nice."The unauthorised reproduction, translation, adaptation or transformation of the form of the code in which a copy of a computer program has been made available constitutes an infringement of the exclusive rights of the author."
      "an exception to the author's exclusive rights may not be used in a way which prejudices the legitimate interests of the rightholder or which conflicts with a normal exploitation of the program."

      These clauses exist in both legal documents. Exception only applies if you have to solve some "interoperability" problem which i highly doubt you have.
      Interoperability is just a fancy way of saying information exchange between two systems, which is exactly OPs use case. Jurisprudence/general interpretation of these laws mean you have quite wide legal justifications to do so, practically speaking, it's always legal as things currently are, as long as you are a holder of a legitimate copy of the software obviously.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Forneus ().

    • Forneus wrote:

      which is exactly OPs use case.
      yes, but i was very interested by YOUR claim of:

      Forneus wrote:

      even alter the <network packets> being sent to you.
      Also SBI provides a service which you access through a program, and terms of that service (your agreement with SBI) clearly say you cannot tamper with client or packets. And while they cannot terminate your access to the copy of program, they can terminate your access to service they provide (a.k.a Ban).

      And none of that falls under scope of any of these laws.

    • Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Forneus wrote:

      which is exactly OPs use case.
      yes, but i was very interested by YOUR claim of:

      Forneus wrote:

      even alter the <network packets> being sent to you.
      Also SBI provides a service which you access through a program, and terms of that service (your agreement with SBI) clearly say you cannot tamper with client or packets. And while they cannot terminate your access to the copy of program, they can terminate your access to service they provide (a.k.a Ban).
      And none of that falls under scope of any of these laws.
      Ohh but that is exactly what this law is about also. You caught onto the correct keyword interoperability. Meddling with these things is part of the process to achieve interoperability(INFORMATION EXCHANGE, hmm PACKAGES??? WHAT DO THEY DO?) which is why this falls under the same law, making it legal. I'm quite sure you're not an IT professional or I would not have to keep pointing out that which is painfully obvious.

      The thing is as I ALSO mention is, if you send modified shit back? (You very handily omitted that part didn't you? Always nice cutting out shit to suite your narrative, dishonesty at it's finest) Well then your ass is grass and they are fully within their rights to lock you out of their service.

      If you want to keep assuming an adversarial position without bringing anything to the table and maintaining dishonesty in the way you quote, omitting key parts. Well then I consider this discussion over and done.

      If this is about something as dumb as your clinging at everything to "win" this.... Well you're wrong, it's okay. You're now smarter and more knowledgeable. Congrats, be happy and move on.

      Bye now.

    • Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Forneus wrote:

      which is exactly OPs use case.
      yes, but i was very interested by YOUR claim of:

      Forneus wrote:

      even alter the <network packets> being sent to you.
      Also SBI provides a service which you access through a program, and terms of that service (your agreement with SBI) clearly say you cannot tamper with client or packets. And while they cannot terminate your access to the copy of program, they can terminate your access to service they provide (a.k.a Ban).
      And none of that falls under scope of any of these laws.
      Nobody is altering packets. Forneus is right, you are wrong. Read what the OP wrote. All he's doing is storing and recording the packet data. You're putting words in someone's mouth after clearly mis-reading what they wrote in a lazy effort to prove an invalid argument. Let it go bruh.
      1.23.40b patch UO Feluccian from Minoc, Pacifica.

    • "provide that information to players."

      The sniffing part is not a problem at all. But i think it would help if you explain a bit what exactly you want to provide. Write to support if its a secret. But it would be possible to build things that give players to much advantages using the information i think. Iirc it was a bit discussed in one of the threads about Cathair´s albiononline2d.com.

    • Blatta wrote:

      "provide that information to players."

      The sniffing part is not a problem at all. But i think it would help if you explain a bit what exactly you want to provide. Write to support if its a secret. But it would be possible to build things that give players to much advantages using the information i think. Iirc it was a bit discussed in one of the threads about Cathair´s albiononline2d.com.
      I can assure that it's not something that will give any advantages to players and my intention is to provide that tool to everyone.
      The kind of tool I am building fits exactly in what the @MadDave described here as permitted (forum.albiononline.com/index.p…?postID=512670#post512670). The point is just that I want to confirm if that position from SBI is still the same.
      All information I am aiming to provide to players is information that is already available/visible inside the game, is just in a different form of viewing/analyzing it.

    • RakBR wrote:

      Blatta wrote:

      "provide that information to players."

      The sniffing part is not a problem at all. But i think it would help if you explain a bit what exactly you want to provide. Write to support if its a secret. But it would be possible to build things that give players to much advantages using the information i think. Iirc it was a bit discussed in one of the threads about Cathair´s albiononline2d.com.
      I can assure that it's not something that will give any advantages to players and my intention is to provide that tool to everyone.The kind of tool I am building fits exactly in what the @MadDave described here as permitted (forum.albiononline.com/index.p…?postID=512670#post512670). The point is just that I want to confirm if that position from SBI is still the same.
      All information I am aiming to provide to players is information that is already available/visible inside the game, is just in a different form of viewing/analyzing it.
      Hey there,

      the quoted link with the statement from MadDave is still our stance on this.