cleric robe + graveguard

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    • cleric robe + graveguard

      Alright lets get this over with. This is an overpowered combo and I'm sick of being pigeonholed into using this clown getup and being out tanked by people using this combo in small group pvp. there's something wrong when you've got both dps and tankiness on your side, a simple "Nope, you touched me, I have full hp now" combined with the cloth damage passive makes this broken.

      The counters to this are to use your ultra instinct to predict when they're going to pop the shield (good luck if you have DoTs or a channeled damage move), or purge the shield in the minuscule window you have before they use the helmet. The most effective way is to burst the shit out of anyone using it with stuff like snipe shot or bloodletter, but this requires far more coordination and multiple people vs one target. Thus, the verdict that this is overpowered. please make the gg helmet untargetable on yourself (you can also combo with dodge roll)
    • problem isnt that is op, it is good combo, and other items have lack of it.
      It is very hard to proc this, unleass u really want put shield on enemy.
      I dont understand why players stick to enemy like slime instead use other way to not proc it every single time.
      Mainly burst skills proc this ability, but dmg is anyway in, but players can wait this 1sec before bursting, so 2 big cds are almost unused.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Qolkkalom ().

    • Qolkkalom wrote:

      problem isnt that is op, it is good combo, and other items have lack of it.
      It is very hard to proc this, unleass u really want put shield on enemy.
      I dont understand why players stick to enemy like slime instead use other way to not proc it every single time.
      Mainly burst skills proc this ability, but dmg is anyway in, but players can wait this 1sec before bursting, so 2 big cds are almost unused.
      u heard about DoT ??? omg
    • I know that this combo is very strong. But Im not sure that calling it "OP" is warranted. It should only be strong vs DOT based attacks. Anything that is not a DOT can easily counter this (by not attacking).

      I like the fact that many weapons that have a "DOT" (bleed) passive allow me to change it to a non-DOT based one (like dagger bleed DOT to attack speed or 8% DMG buff after X number or attacks), however skills that have build in DOT kind of still suffer from not having this flexibility.

      I think maybe - maaaaybe just the skills with DOT may need to be reworked a bit. Or maybe you just need to hold out your DOT based skills until the very end when you know your opponent is so low - you can 1 shot it. (bye-bye curse - you cannot use this counter, you are all DOTs hue-hue).

      having said that - Clearic + graveguard is a hard counter to curse + fire + axe... but the cleric robe can easily be purged if you use a mage robe and your enemy who is using Cleric + GG uses some kind of DOT on you (their DOT will activate your cleanse from Mage robe and purge their Cleric immunity - before you have time to do the Cleric + GG combo).

      We tested it:



      skip to 25:07 minute - Cleric Robe gets purged by mage Robe when Druid has thorn on me. Cannot use GG to its full potential.

      So in that sense: cleric + GG combo is can be easily countered by any mage robe user if the attacker (cleric+gg) uses some kind of DOT. So that really narrows down the "usefulness" and "OP-ness" of this combo.

      Verdict: the combo is not OP - since the Cleric will auto-purge itself if you use mage robe to counter it when you have a DOT on you (on the mage robe user that is).

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Captainrussia ().

    • Captainrussia wrote:

      I know that this combo is very strong. But Im not sure that calling it "OP" is warranted. It should only be strong vs DOT based attacks. Anything that is not a DOT can easily counter this (by not attacking).

      I like the fact that many weapons that have a "DOT" (bleed) passive allow me to change it to a non-DOT based one (like dagger bleed DOT to attack speed or 8% DMG buff after X number or attacks), however skills that have build in DOT kind of still suffer from not having this flexibility.

      I think maybe - maaaaybe just the skills with DOT may need to be reworked a bit. Or maybe you just need to hold out your DOT based skills until the very end when you know your opponent is so low - you can 1 shot it. (bye-bye curse - you cannot use this counter, you are all DOTs hue-hue).

      having said that - Clearic + graveguard is a hard counter to curse + fire + axe... but the cleric robe can easily be purged if you use a mage robe and your enemy who is using Cleric + GG uses some kind of DOT on you (their DOT will activate your cleanse from Mage robe and purge their Cleric immunity - before you have time to do the Cleric + GG combo).

      We tested it:



      skip to 25:07 minute - Cleric Robe gets purged by mage Robe when Druid has thorn on me. Cannot use GG to its full potential.

      So in that sense: cleric + GG combo is can be easily countered by any mage robe user if the attacker (cleric+gg) uses some kind of DOT. So that really narrows down the "usefulness" and "OP-ness" of this combo.

      Verdict: the combo is not OP - since the Cleric will auto-purge itself if you use mage robe to counter it when you have a DOT on you (on the mage robe user that is).
      The trouble is that I always use mage robe due to the frequency of this combo (and merc jacket/soldier armour) and it's still quite hard - the standtimes and some channeled abilities like autofire will make the shield and helmet go off before you can actually purge it. More often than not there's no DoT effect to work with and it's sorry goodbye. like i said, there is a miniscule window with which to purge the shield.

      Lastly I just want to reiterate the core concept of being tanky vs being bursty. Tanks have counters. Bursters have counters. as a core concept, you should only expect one or the other, not both at the same time, which in essence, is what this combo is.
    • Qolkkalom wrote:

      problem isnt that is op, it is good combo, and other items have lack of it.
      It is very hard to proc this, unleass u really want put shield on enemy.
      I dont understand why players stick to enemy like slime instead use other way to not proc it every single time.
      Mainly burst skills proc this ability, but dmg is anyway in, but players can wait this 1sec before bursting, so 2 big cds are almost unused.
      Wrong, through the last few years of balancing SBI has nerfed much of the damage by tying it to damage over time, this means that for the majority of weapons this robe is almost guaranteed. Not a problem in itself, as it counters periods of heavy burst, and is a fair trade for the cd. It becomes overpowered only with the graveguard helmet, as it can take advantage of the bonus healing, and reset you completely.

      This leads to the somewhat anti-skill play style of facetanking all damage in a cloth set, whilst dealing massive damage, and simply resetting yourself to max hp, whilst also giving you a large burst of extra damage potential, not only because of the bonus %, but also because of the invulnerability that allows you to free land interrupt-able damage.

      This leads to greater sustainability with high mobility builds, as they can push incredibly hard for damage, then hard kite for cd's before returning to do the same again.

      Conclusion:

      My problem with the graveguard helmet is that the skill is called "sacrifice". You sacrifice nothing when using it with the cleric robe, and only gain advantages. For me, the easiest balance is that you will always take the sacrifice damage proportionally, and that you will always do the same heal value, cutting it both ways meaning it would not be affected by heal debuffs either.

      Balancing to this combo cannot be done via the cleric robe, as defensively, the robe is balanced fine, and already see's viable use with any other combinations of items in a very good position, without feeling over, or under tuned.
      Hop on in to my Discord and Twitch ^^
    • Dies to cc pretty easily. There are several health resets in the game. Lots of players blindly stack up damage focused abilities on thier build while sacraficing all utility/control options. When they run into a great nature, merc jacket, cleric+gg, etc they just have no answer and lose. Cleric + gg is harder to beat if all you have is purge because of the narrow window. Stuns and silences work better against it because you can just use your control when they are around that 1/3 mark right before they would go for the combo.
    • SirusX715 wrote:

      Dies to cc pretty easily. There are several health resets in the game. Lots of players blindly stack up damage focused abilities on thier build while sacraficing all utility/control options. When they run into a great nature, merc jacket, cleric+gg, etc they just have no answer and lose. Cleric + gg is harder to beat if all you have is purge because of the narrow window. Stuns and silences work better against it because you can just use your control when they are around that 1/3 mark right before they would go for the combo.
      Outside of yet another reason to be pigeonholed into daggers I could see demon helm being used (cheapest at ~100k in royal towns atm), but I still don't think this combo has enough counters. CC at the right time still relies on ultra instinct gameplay to counter the combo. not to mention how much easier it is than other resets like merc and hellion in small group pvp to pull off.
    • Jokes on everyone in this forum SBI wont nerf it!

      hehehe

      Already mentioned this they said they wouldnt nerf to so what better than to actually use it.

      But in all fairness the only people that use this is solo players? It allows solo players to win outnumberd fight. Theirs tons of skill with it 2. You can time burt damage with the cleric robe and etc.

      EDIT: I talked to Elsa in discord about it 4-5 months back and I was actually complaining on how pretty strong it is. Elsa basically said that their is counter play and tons of stuff to beat it.
      I’m toxic

      The post was edited 1 time, last by RottenH20 ().

    • If i were to look into the darkest recess of my heart I'd see that I probably wouldn't have made this thread if the idea of a guy in a basic-ass metal helmet holding a claymore sprinting around with his wizard robe flapping around his shins wasn't so stupid. but it's probably the most powerful roaming/small group combo in the game. It's like the worst case scenario of the downside to gear = strength, in which surprise surprise, the dumbest looking combo is the strongest. maybe I'll be happier if i just give in and spec daggers/curse, and switch off any creative thinking. Ill run around like a lunatic in a bathrobe with a pot on his head, that grabbed the nearest sword and is still holding his horn of ale. it'll be more simple that way.
    • Owlsane wrote:

      Apart from dot based builds that gets countered 100% with this combo, verything else is skill based situation, it's all about restraining yourself to hit the dude 2s when he pops cleric.
      Or builds with projectiles... or a windup time on attacks... or anything a good player can time their cleric robe around. He can also activate the cleric robe with his graveguard, but i think he still takes the %dmg and doesnt get the extra healing. But he could block a big burst with it. But you are right, at that point it would be skill based and like against dot builds guaranteed.
    • No, it doesnt work this way.
      Grave heal for certain amout and that it.
      Cost of using this skill is %of ur health and that it aswell. Eg if u knowcthat ull be not attacked, but u need activate cleric to get bonus dmg or and healing, u can do this with grave, as it deal dmg to u and shield will be activated.

      Overall heal is the same, but cleric shield protect u from costs of grave skill
    • Qolkkalom wrote:

      No, it doesnt work this way.
      Grave heal for certain amout and that it.
      Cost of using this skill is %of ur health and that it aswell. Eg if u knowcthat ull be not attacked, but u need activate cleric to get bonus dmg or and healing, u can do this with grave, as it deal dmg to u and shield will be activated.

      Overall heal is the same, but cleric shield protect u from costs of grave skill
      No
      NO and no. Dont ever trust ingame tooltips.
      all +healing effects works with Sacrifice heal, all damage reduction works with Sacrifice cost damage, all +damage works with Sacrifice cost damage

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Xdembe ().