Current cooking fees are insane in Caerlon, explanation and countermeasures

    • Current cooking fees are insane in Caerlon, explanation and countermeasures

      I posted this yesterday on Reddit and had a good reception so I thought that would be a good idea to share it here too. The language used has changed a bit.

      Prerequisite: “How cooking taxes work?”

      There are 4 components to consider on a cook food station:

      - fee

      - nutrition cost

      - material return

      - normal dishes vs special dishes

      Here we’re going to discuss mostly about fee, material return and normal vs special dishes because as a costumer you don’t care about owner cost (at the end some notes about this).

      Note: the prices used in this thread are from yesterday and can change drastically in 1 day but the maths behind it is the same and the pattern will follow too.

      Material return vs fee:

      Let’s make a simple example right now, you want to craft 100 T5 goosie pie on caerleon and check around prices the first thing you probably will say is “crap” and craft anyway with 170% fees because there is no others way around.

      Should I cook on my island or Caerleon?

      With our example you will get something like this:

      - 16320 on fees

      - 15% material return is: 9 Cabbage (304 silver), 18 flour (345 silver), 32 Raw goose (178 silver), 9 Goat’s milk (9 silver) or 14723 silver with current market prices.

      That’s right, you’re losing value right now even with material return.

      “bruh, you should always consider high tier items for profitability”

      What about if I want to craft 100 T8 Beef Stew?

      - 48960 on fees

      - 15% material return is: 54 Pumkin (330 silver), 54 Bread (400 silver), 108 Raw beef (484 silver) or 91692 silver with current market prices. In other an almost 50/50 split between crafter and plot owner.

      This simple example shows that it’s not a good idea to cook low tier items and even in the best scenario is a 50/50 split.

      Normal dishes vs special dishes:

      By special dishes I’m talking about dishes that require some ingredient from fishing, this dishes with a different tax formula shows a different version.

      Again with examples let’s say we want to craft 100 T5 Drybook crab omelette:

      - 204000 on fees

      - 15% material return is: 15 Drybrook Crab (1920 silver), 30 cabbage (304 silver), 30 Dragon Teasel (384 silver), 30 Goose eggs (240 silver) or 56640 silver with current market prices. WTF? That’s right, you’re losing a huge value.

      “meh, don’t worry bro T8 master race”

      Now when we craft 100 T8 Deadwater Eel Stew:

      - 612000 on fees

      - 15% material return is: 15 Deadwater Eel (49000 silver), 90 Ghoul Yarrow (492 silver), 90 Cow’s milk (393 silver), 90 Goose eggs (240 silver) or 836250 silver with current market prices. Again, crafting the top end save the day.

      Craft with focus, island or city plots? :

      Craft in islands has 37% return with focus, city plots have 44% return

      Time for quick mafs with our previous examples:

      100 T5 goosie pie:

      -15% of goosie pie value is 14723 silver in other words 100% is 98153 silver. 37% return for island has 36316 silver value and 44% - fee is -26867. Because you’re losing money without focus the difference increase with it due a 7% reduction in material return.

      100 T8 Beef Stew:

      -15% of Beef Stew value is 91692 silver in other words 100% is 611280 silver. 37% return for island has 226173 silver value and 44% - fee is 220003. Now it’s more profitable to craft high tier food in your own island.

      100 T5 Drybook crab omelette:

      -15% of Drybook crab omelette value is 56640 silver in other words 100% is 377600 silver. 37% return for island has 139712 silver value and 44% - fee is -37856. You still losing money even with focus.

      100 T8 Deadwater Eel Stew:

      -15% of T8 Deadwater Eel Stew is 836250 silver in other words 100% is 5575000 silver. 37% return for island has 2062750 silver value and 44% - fee is 1841000. Even now it’s more profitable to craft your own food.

      In other words using focus in your own island “should” be better option but… what happen when we add the maintenance cost of a cooking station?

      Nutrition cost:

      Each “normal” material (not fishing product) has an item value of 40 and spend 4.5 nutrition on a crafting station (I read an old thread that has 2.6 nutrition cost so I tested several times). So for example a T7 Pork pie which cost 144 materials to craft spend 648 nutrition, for special dishes fishing products do not count a T7 Dusthole Crab omelette spend 81 nutrition… that right, the expensive dish to craft is actually the dish with less nutrition cost. Right now normal dishes with 170% fees are returning to the plot owner 7.5 silver per nutrition while special dishes almost 75 silver per nutrition.

      How did I get the 7.5 silver per nutrition?

      T7 Pork pie has a fee of 4896 right now and spend 648 nutrition on it so 4896/648 = 7.5 aprox silver per nutrition.

      How expensive is to run a Cooking station?

      I’m not expert in food supply but a quick look in the favorite food of a cooking station is T5 goose pie with a current price of 1050 gives 306 nutrition, because favorite food give double the nutrition you’re actually paying around 1.7 silver per nutrition.

      In our previous quick mafs example crafting 100 T8 Deadwater Eel Stew you make you spend 8100 nutrition total with 1.7 silver per nutrition is around 13770 in food cost. With 37% material return in our island we get 2062750 return value minus the food cost is 2048980, in other words we’re saving 207980 in comparison of a normal city plot with current fees. They should drop the fees almost to 90% to actually make it worth!


      In conclusion: For low tier food and any special food (fishing materials) the current prices are horrible for the average crafter without associate fees and it’s cheaper to make your own station.

      “Plot owners are providing a services, I’m not going to manage my own cook station even if I lose a bit of money is ok”

      For this reason alone I’m going to open a cook station on a guild island with 45% fees (or 2 silver per food which is almost the production cost), in our last example with 100 T8 Deadwater Eel Stew will have 180k fee which is 432k cheaper than currenty caerleon prices but you get 7% less return value which is 390250 in silver so you're actually only saving 41750 silver.

      Who should use this plots? Anyone who want to craft special food, craft with focus or everything below T6 food. Normal T7-T8 food is still better to craft in city plots.

      As you can see I’m not a saint and I’m actually winning money running the plot (a little above crafting cost) and “worst” case scenario for me is if city plots drop the fees at least to 90% and everyone is happy except me that lose a few mill.

      Some extra information:

      I saw how a milling station was created in Caerleon with 150% fee. Milling stations are insanely cheap to run, cost like 50k to build and spend 4.5 nutrition per craft. With current market value you can get 1.5 silver per nutrition or 6.75 silver cost per craft and you’re paying a 150% fee (or 300 silver) right now with the only available milling station… fuck that shit but just in case let’s do the maths.

      If you want to craft 100 flour the result is:

      - 30000 in fees

      - 15 wheat (337 silver) return or 5055 value, in other words you’re losing 24945 per 100 flour.

      I’m offering now a milling station with 15% fees, obviously doesn’t have a return but you will pay 3000 in fees (30 silver per craft, that’s 4.5 times the nutrition cost!) and you will save 21945.

      Final thoughts:

      Due the nature of special dishes 99% of the time it's way better to craft them in your own island, this is because nutrition cost on special dishes is incredible low. A cooking station should have around 15-20% fees to make it worth city plots usage. Also you need to understand that you probably will never see this fees with current food prices because most people will craft normal dish that require around 40% fees to sustain the plot.

      You can PM here on contact me in game to add access if you're interesting (It’s a T7 cooking station currently).
    • You can always build your own on your island. (or was that the point, that you're allowing others access to your island?)

      I don't mess with wheat, but I've heard that flour milling should be done on a guild island, for basically the myriad reasons you listed and I skimmed through.
      1.23.40b patch UO Feluccian from Minoc, Pacifica.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by TheArimatheus ().

    • Resource return is a bonus, doesn't matter if you get it or not, always based your fees on 0% return, if the fee you feel not worth the return go and craft it on a free island based station. Or if your guild have a home plot with cook take a little risk and cook it there.