Town Plots and Bidding

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    • Town Plots and Bidding

      I have sent several support tickets and have not received any responses from them so i'm posting this here.

      TOWN PLOTS AND BIDDING
      Now this is a rather big one because this was supposed to be the update that crushed all of the monopolies owned by many different accounts, such as Riddler in Lymhurst (specifically mentioning Riddler because I am based out of Lymhurst). In the last bidding cycle i was notified that i had lost the town plots, which was no big surprise because i had spread out all of my assets in order to see if one fell through the cracks. I had noticed something strange, on 2 town plots I was outbid by one silver. Now this really struck me as odd because how is that possible if the auction is blind?

      This is the one that really caught my attention. You can see my strategy of moving the slider to wherever the hell i felt like it and somehow the winning bid outbid me by one silver. This occurred in this plot and a smelter's station plot where i put down 6,000,003 and the winning bid was 6,000,004.

      So I got to thinking and there are two possible ways this acution system works (one is a conspiracy, but whatever)
      1. Riddler knows all the prices because he is an insider (least likely)
      or
      2. Sandbox interactive really doesn't know how to make an auction system

      Seeing that 2 is the most logical choice let me tell you all how it works. A player (AKA: Riddler) places down an amount to bid on the building. Being the owner, he gets an advantage, his bids cost 2x more than someone else (AKA: Bindels). So he places down his bid and Bindels happens to bid second highest with a modest bid of 3,183,609. Now Riddler wins the auction outright because he put down waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more than a measly 3,183,609. In fact, his flat number bid would have beaten my arbitrary bid regardless. Now Albion looks at that information and says ok, Riddler won the bid so he has to pay the full amount he bid to retain control of the building? Right? That's how an auction works. If someone bids 300 dollars for a piece of art and someone does that thing people always do in movies where they jump up with their card and shout "ONE MILLION DOLLARS" how much do they pay for the thing they bid on? One million dollars right?

      Now, let's take that concept into Albion. If someone jumps up with their placard high up in the air and shouts "ONE MILLION DOLLARS" and the second highest bid is a 300 dollar bid. How much do they pay for it?

      301

      The winning bid is 301.


      Before every auction, thanks to albion patch 1.14.381 on April 25th the winning bid and is now visible. So you can see the bid of 301 as the winning bid from the result of last auction. Now, a new player comes up, let's call him Skipper. Now Skipper sees that the last winning bid was 301, so automatically, he assumes that the player Riddler put down 301 and won. Now, armed with this information, he is ready to become the next real estate guru and does some quick math and finds out that 2x more than 301 is 602. Using his high mental capacity he knows that to fully secure the property he has to bid more than 602. so he bids in the ballpark range of 800 because that's what he can afford at the time and if he wins he needs to have enough silver for shop maintenance and even possibly for construction of a new shop. Finally auction day comes and Skipper feels like a kid on Christmas morning. He's excited, he opens up Albino and what does he see? He was outbid by that darn Riddler account ;( . How much did Riddler pay for the plot this cycle? 801 (or one number higher than what Skipper put down). How much did Riddler ACTUALLY bid? 1 MILLION? Was he charged 1 MILLION? No, he was charged 801.

      Now SBI with patch 1.14.381 decided to put winning bids and I couldn't figure out why Riddler's winning bid pattern was so erratic and this is it. Because the info you are shown is not the amount riddler put down it is 1 HIGHER THAN THE SECOND PLACE BID. Now. What exactly am I supposed to do with that information???? It's actually useless. It gives no advantage to buyers and actually gives an advantage to repeat owners because we can't see how much they have been putting down on a plot.

      NOT ONLY THAT but the most outrageous part of all is WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU LOOSE ALL OF THE MONEY THAT YOU BID ON THE PLOT???? It's a simple answer and ill tell you why. SBI either doesn't care or just doesn't know. Either of those answers is absolutely shocking.

      Proper reform to the auction system to allow properties to be more widely owned would require that you loose the full amount you bid if you win and that the last WINNING BID is the full amount of money that the last person placed down to win the plot.

      Bindles out.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Evas_Flarelight: Edited some words to conform with the standard of the feedback and suggestion forum. ().

    • I'm not saying that's not how the bidding system in albion works. I'm saying that it encourages monopolies to thrive and gives ridiculous advantages to previous owners even after the patch. For some reason this bidding system doesn't work like a bidding system in real life and this provides an explanation of that to new players as well as a "what were you thinking?" to SBI. Please read the post before commenting thanks.
    • Instead of figuring out a better system you came here to defend this with "works for ebay". I will remind you that some of us argued against this system back in beta on the round table. It should be clear seeing as a single person owns every stall in each of the cities that your "works for ebay" is a bad solution for NOT EBAY.

      Just because ebay works doesn't mean that it's a good system. I'm pretty grateful that Jeff Bezos hasn't bought every single beanie baby in existence and relisted those for higher prices. I might have to work for McDonald's if that was the case. Thankfully he has better stuff to do with his billions.
      Just a Goon nobody..
    • Forge wrote:

      Instead of figuring out a better system you came here to defend this with "works for ebay". I will remind you that some of us argued against this system back in beta on the round table. It should be clear seeing as a single person owns every stall in each of the cities that your "works for ebay" is a bad solution for NOT EBAY.

      Just because ebay works doesn't mean that it's a good system. I'm pretty grateful that Jeff Bezos hasn't bought every single beanie baby in existence and relisted those for higher prices. I might have to work for McDonald's if that was the case. Thankfully he has better stuff to do with his billions.
      Anyone who is more committed than the owner of the plot is, can take the plot away from the owner now.

      How about if the auction system was designed by a Nobel laureate and has been proven time and again to be one of the best possible ways to sell something for the highest amount people are willing to pay for it?

      Vickrey Auction

      William Vickrey
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Hey @Forge!
      I'm not saying the current system is perfect. I was just clarifying that @Bindels statement that there is no real life auction system that works like ours is simply wrong. Just like your statement "a single person owns every stall in each of the cities" is wrong as well.
      We've seen the situation improve after we changed the system to a blind auction system and the feedback we got from players was very positive overall as well. We'll further continue monitoring the situation and we're always willing to make changes to the system when we feel like we need to.

      - Lino
    • H4n1baL wrote:

      Hey @Forge!
      I'm not saying the current system is perfect. I was just clarifying that @Bindels statement that there is no real life auction system that works like ours is simply wrong. Just like your statement "a single person owns every stall in each of the cities" is wrong as well.
      We've seen the situation improve after we changed the system to a blind auction system and the feedback we got from players was very positive overall as well. We'll further continue monitoring the situation and we're always willing to make changes to the system when we feel like we need to.

      - Lino
      Let's see statistics on how many new players since free to play own plots? How many different accounts own what percent of stalls and are they alts of a large alliance?

      A much better system would be to diversify the entire endeavor by regions. Splitting plots into sections which give diverse player types the ability to use and own these. No stall should ever not be allowed for public use ever.

      Example:
      1) Top 20 PvE fame players by region get an email saying they won a stall for the month in the region of the fame. Failure to claim the stall in 5 days will result it being put up for blind auction (account activity check).
      2) Top 20 PvP fame players by region same.. (exclude GvG fame)
      3) Top 20 Guilds by PvE Fame by region same.
      4) Top 20 Guilds by PvP Fame by region same.
      5) Remaining stalls left for blind auctions.

      This is just an easy example of a way to give random players who are active in the game the option of running a stall from time to time. You could select randomly the top 500 by fame in that region, it's about diversifying and preventing every stall from having the exact same prices set by the same owners. This method would give a multitude of options for guilds and players to partake in town stalls by preventing monopolies by the region. If you want a town stall strive to be the top 20 fame for that region. It gives players the opportunity to enter the ring. One which currently doesn't exist. I know if you exclude GvG fame that will ruffle the feathers of the current elite. But it should be about activity in PvP, not sending the same guys to 4 GvGs in a month and end up on the leaderboard with 2.5m fame kills.

      I have observed Albion's development for a long time now. Some of the dev decisions are down right puzzling. While others have been a breath of fresh air (RD) to the game. While playing in RDs last night I realized that World's Adrifts downfall was there was a clear lack of content, past it's PvP surface, amidst tech issues. Albion probably still lacks content in a way, though it's come far since the beginning. I believe it still has a ways to go and the only way to get there is clear. Give different groups of players different avenues to have fun. Don't put all your eggs in the same basket, switch up stagnant GvG meta, aka why are there not other methods of winning territories? Why are castles still completely useless (glorified chests). Add more content for the average Joe to do. It became clear the echo chamber that was the round table won't get you there when 95% of the RT had differing opinions than 95% of the player base.

      Why has <1% of the players participated in a core aspect of your game play? Stand in Carleon and inspect characters who come into the bank area. See how many of those players have even participated in a GvG, what percentage have done more than 10?

      Lastly, why is the world map robotic? It feels more like random number gen than a living breathing world. I harped on this much of my time in the RT, and while admittedly I did see a few of the ideas I mentioned make it into the game. Be that of my advice or purely coincidence, they seemed skewed and lost from the original feel to what was needed. We need more organic options to play in a world that feels like a real place, not just a map of squares. I will always make myself available should SBI want to chat about that in the future and what I see as the current issues to world design. My best advice is don't let the fact that you can't do it in a single world revision cause you to abandon originality. Don't let biome diversity and premade content dictate a robotic approach to layouts. Not all areas should connect to other areas just because the tileset has to be square, and if one place connects, not all tiles should be forced to connect to it's twin tileset (black). The life and atmosphere of this game could be so much more. Swamps should feel like swamps, mountains like high peaks overlooking forests.. Keep improving.. Keep diversifying..

      AcOrP wrote:

      I totaly disagree with the OP.
      The current state of the bidding system is very good.
      You can attack and win plots but it will cost you a lot of money.
      I bid 70+ mil on plot in lym I didn't win. I think Ridler bided 100mil.
      The fact that you lost on a 70 mil bid if true shows that others need not apply, and the OP has clearly found an issue with the system. How is the average person who started during FTP ever going to amass even 70 mil. That will take them months of play if they don't use mommy's credit card. This is the definition of player base exclusion in content.
      Just a Goon nobody..

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Forge ().

    • How about he get 9 friends and bid 300m on a single shop. Then he has 9 other people helping him to supply nutrition.

      For good or bad, the solutions to a lot of "problems" in AO are easily resolved by, instead of doing everything yourself, gathering up some homies and putting in work together.

      I say this as a human being who artificially constrained themselves by doing the exact opposite of that. The cheapest leverage you can get in AO is instead of doing things by yourself, doing them in groups.

      The current plot situation is also not the forever plot situation. There are cycles and we just happen to be on the downward slope of the biggest economic boom in AO history right now.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Forge wrote:

      H4n1baL wrote:

      Hey @Forge!
      I'm not saying the current system is perfect. I was just clarifying that @Bindels statement that there is no real life auction system that works like ours is simply wrong. Just like your statement "a single person owns every stall in each of the cities" is wrong as well.
      We've seen the situation improve after we changed the system to a blind auction system and the feedback we got from players was very positive overall as well. We'll further continue monitoring the situation and we're always willing to make changes to the system when we feel like we need to.

      - Lino
      Let's see statistics on how many new players since free to play own plots? How many different accounts own what percent of stalls and are they alts of a large alliance?
      A much better system would be to diversify the entire endeavor by regions. Splitting plots into sections which give diverse player types the ability to use and own these. No stall should ever not be allowed for public use ever.

      Example:
      1) Top 20 PvE fame players by region get an email saying they won a stall for the month in the region of the fame. Failure to claim the stall in 5 days will result it being put up for blind auction (account activity check).
      2) Top 20 PvP fame players by region same.. (exclude GvG fame)
      3) Top 20 Guilds by PvE Fame by region same.
      4) Top 20 Guilds by PvP Fame by region same.
      5) Remaining stalls left for blind auctions.

      This is just an easy example of a way to give random players who are active in the game the option of running a stall from time to time. You could select randomly the top 500 by fame in that region, it's about diversifying and preventing every stall from having the exact same prices set by the same owners. This method would give a multitude of options for guilds and players to partake in town stalls by preventing monopolies by the region. If you want a town stall strive to be the top 20 fame for that region. It gives players the opportunity to enter the ring. One which currently doesn't exist. I know if you exclude GvG fame that will ruffle the feathers of the current elite. But it should be about activity in PvP, not sending the same guys to 4 GvGs in a month and end up on the leaderboard with 2.5m fame kills.

      I have observed Albion's development for a long time now. Some of the dev decisions are down right puzzling. While others have been a breath of fresh air (RD) to the game. While playing in RDs last night I realized that World's Adrifts downfall was there was a clear lack of content, past it's PvP surface, amidst tech issues. Albion probably still lacks content in a way, though it's come far since the beginning. I believe it still has a ways to go and the only way to get there is clear. Give different groups of players different avenues to have fun. Don't put all your eggs in the same basket, switch up stagnant GvG meta, aka why are there not other methods of winning territories? Why are castles still completely useless (glorified chests). Add more content for the average Joe to do. It became clear the echo chamber that was the round table won't get you there when 95% of the RT had differing opinions than 95% of the player base.

      Why has <1% of the players participated in a core aspect of your game play? Stand in Carleon and inspect characters who come into the bank area. See how many of those players have even participated in a GvG, what percentage have done more than 10?

      Lastly, why is the world map robotic? It feels more like random number gen than a living breathing world. I harped on this much of my time in the RT, and while admittedly I did see a few of the ideas I mentioned make it into the game. Be that of my advice or purely coincidence, they seemed skewed and lost from the original feel to what was needed. We need more organic options to play in a world that feels like a real place, not just a map of squares. I will always make myself available should SBI want to chat about that in the future and what I see as the current issues to world design. My best advice is don't let the fact that you can't do it in a single world revision cause you to abandon originality. Don't let biome diversity and premade content dictate a robotic approach to layouts. Not all areas should connect to other areas just because the tileset has to be square, and if one place connects, not all tiles should be forced to connect to it's twin tileset (black). The life and atmosphere of this game could be so much more. Swamps should feel like swamps, mountains like high peaks overlooking forests.. Keep improving.. Keep diversifying..

      AcOrP wrote:

      I totaly disagree with the OP.
      The current state of the bidding system is very good.
      You can attack and win plots but it will cost you a lot of money.
      I bid 70+ mil on plot in lym I didn't win. I think Ridler bided 100mil.
      The fact that you lost on a 70 mil bid if true shows that others need not apply, and the OP has clearly found an issue with the system. How is the average person who started during FTP ever going to amass even 70 mil. That will take them months of play if they don't use mommy's credit card. This is the definition of player base exclusion in content.
      Why are the F2P players eligible to things ?
      You can make a lot of money quite fast.
      I get like 1.2 mil per day from focus.
      to save 70mil it takes f2p player 70 days worth of focus that is 70 mil + 3x 5mil for premium.
      And that is only focus.
      If the said person does anyother activity like crafting/gathering/pve/HG/ganking/transporting/trading he can make a lot more in very short time.
      TBH I spend 10 mil a day on random shits.
      also the f2p players can always spend $100 for 21k gold that is 42mil.
      That is what most people spend to play the game before it went to f2p.
      this is about the bids.
      2 days ago a plot in martlock with T8 hunter lodge sold for 40mil.
      If someone want to get into this then he can!
      If someone think that Plots are making milions of free money they are wrong.
      If there is cartel yes you can make profit if there is no cartel you lose money owning plots.
    • You have to feel sorry for the devs who have to read through all this misinformation.

      Increasing the plot owner's expenses and risks will not lower taxes, that will only make them higher.

      Forge wrote:

      Let's see statistics on how many new players since free to play own plots? How many different accounts own what percent of stalls and are they alts of a large alliance?
      How many new players are holding cities? How many new players own guilds with territories in Mercia? How many new players have 400/400 spec on their main gear? How many new players have more than 500m silver in assets? How many new players own a command mammoth? How many new players have fully decked out guild islands full of laborers?

      The answer is not many, because it is late game content. It is supposed to be for people who put time and effort into the game. It is what makes games like Albion fun. Dumbing down late game content without supplying more late-er game content is how games become boring WoW clones. SBI, please, don't do this to Albion Online. If you want to make plots very cheap and available to everybody, introduce something alike that people can invest into first.