So i did left the game but i do [since i have some silver left] help some player out or put up information not cover while i work on my zomboid series...

here something that is really bothering me

[don't watch the video, it isn't needed just watch the second]

So basically i cover the important of having keys and what you should do to gain maximum keys, which the end the answer is hellgate 5v5..

However, a friend of mine mcpasta who helps player on the forum said that something is wrong with the formula.. Which i triple check with each picture i saw and with picture he posted....

There is something interesting, a missing factor, and im dying to find out what this factor is..

this is the video i need your help with, if you cannot watch the vid please read below as ill put what i put in the vid in words.....

there is a math formula for keys... the first vid shows this and the second as well,

The fame does change a bit on or so on the farming and on some of the other challanges, however if 1 formula is working , that formula should keep working....

this formula was alittle off. it was Fame^.5x1.6 [fame increase to the .50 power times one point six]...
The one that worked was Fame^.5x1.5 [fame increase to the .50 power times one point five]...

Ill show you an example,

if you click the video, pause it instantly you get a screen shot of some numbers... if you calculate 105,421 ^.50 you get =324.68600216209 round that off and you get 325. Now multiply that by 1.5 . =487.5 keys. which if you look at the video screen shot it is the same a the main boss... lets try the screen shot my friend put his reddit. imgur.com/a/99Lmg0R now lets look at the number 49,417 and factor it in for fame in the formula *fame^.50x1.5* 49,417^.50==222.29934772734, round it off = 222x 1.5=333keys You can try everything on any fame and you will get a very very very close estimate.. one last time,, the mob for 793^.50==28.160255680657 round off, 28x1.5=42...

So the formula fame^.5x1.5 seem to work on every fame to calculate the keys.... However, there is a problem and here where the dilemma, lets call calculate a fame that is 1,000,000 fame per hour.. so lets just use the number 1,000,000 fame and factor it in for the usual formula..

1mill^.5=1000x1.5=1500keys .... something is wrong here, if i factor 1mill fame i get 1500keys.. However, hellgate has 4 mini boss and 1main boss, When i told this to mcpasta he said that the 1mill fame would be wrong because the keys for hellgate should be 333keys mini boss and there are 4, let say someone manage to kill all 4, that 333x4= 1332 keys and the main boss gives 487 keys so factor that in you get, 1819.... however the fame will not reach 1mill, 49,417fame x4= 197,668 add the main boss [105,421] and you get 303,089fame .. I add that factor into the formula.. 303,089^.5=550.53519415202.. round off would be 551and now times 1.5 .. 551x1.5= 826.50keys per run...

I literally tried almost everything and im still adding more of it.... I tried making the difference between 105,421-49,417 and doing difference between both of the keys of both bosses, 487-333 and as a result both number doesnt add up when you use the formula... I tried checking many times if the formula [which so far is working perfectly when calculating the fame for keys] would work if reverted... such as... you have 487 keys. you would divided by 1.5 which is 324.66 multiply it by it self 105,404.1156 ... or 333 key on miniboss divided by 1.5=222 times itself 49,284.. which def come close to the fame 49,417 or the main boss 105,404 vs 105,421......

So umm, im really hoping that the factor that im missing in here isn't one silly formula or little factor error on the 1,000,000 math or something simple.. but if it is i would appreciate an expert in mathematics explain this to me when you have free time.... Thank you

sincerely

Final XD

keep the troll to a minimal and focus on the thread discussion thanks.

ps. im alittle mad because this is the only thing i can't explain my self to my friend mcpasta... I have for the first time no answer to this.. so i come here to you smarties to help me
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• x ^ 0.5 is essentially the same as square root of x. Let's shorten that to sqrt(x).

sqrt (x) + sqrt (y) + sqrt (z) != sqrt (x + y + z)
• ### Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

x ^ 0.5 is essentially the same as square root of x. Let's shorten that to sqrt(x).

sqrt (x) + sqrt (y) + sqrt (z) != sqrt (x + y + z)
Yeah.

And the way the math flows through as you look at the data points in fame progression on the destiny board, it's more of a logarithmic regression rather than an exponential one.

You're looking for X^1/e, not X^1/2....

If I understand your ramblings sufficiently I believe you are trying to take the integral of a curve that you believe to be on an exponential growth trajectory, which it's not and why your models are breaking down.

EDIT: Totally mis-read the OP's post and had no business posting on this subject but I can't delete posts and I really do like math so here we are. :-|
1.23.40b patch UO Feluccian from Minoc, Pacifica.

The post was edited 2 times, last by TheArimatheus ().

• ### Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

x ^ 0.5 is essentially the same as square root of x. Let's shorten that to sqrt(x).

sqrt (x) + sqrt (y) + sqrt (z) != sqrt (x + y + z)
Perfect

so sqrt of 105,421 which looks like this imgur.com/a/CNg3raq on paper. is 324.6860021620889, 325x1.5= 487.5 which shows the same number in the screen shot...

if i use the same formula for 1,000,000, you get 1,000 x1.5 = 1500 keys... this is kinda of incorrect because hell gate doesnt give 1,000,000fame. it only gives 303k around for the whole dungeon if you kill all 5 bosses...

so my question is, why doesn't the formula adds up in this case.. it adds up perfectly when you individually calculate each fame for their keys equivalent [sqrt of 105,421=325x1.5=487keys] [sqrt of 49,417=222x1.5=333keys] add all the fame together you get 303,089fame in a 5v5 hellgate, but when you try the same formula ofr 303,089 [sqr of 303,089=551x1.5=826.5keys]

actually the more i think about it the more im starting to see a pattern, once again im not an expert in math so i would ask one last question when i finish this example..

i though if i do for example 5 fame=2keys [not realistic btw] if i add another 5 to that first 5, 5+5 it would give me 10 as a result which i though the keys would be equivalent to the base number. 5=2keys and 10 would be 4 keys... Here is where im starting to notice something. and i only need one answer to see if im right, if im not ill quit cause i don't think i would solve this...

using the same shorten sqrt(x).. @Thorn-Delwyn i know you haven't put this ingame, but if you did, if you put a super legendary awsome boss that gives 1,000,000fame for killing it... will the sqrt(1,000,000)x1.5 give 1500keys?.. that all i need to know to finally solve this, if the answer is no i failed and i give up XD
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The post was edited 1 time, last by Finalhecate ().

### Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

x ^ 0.5 is essentially the same as square root of x. Let's shorten that to sqrt(x).

sqrt (x) + sqrt (y) + sqrt (z) != sqrt (x + y + z)
Yeah.
And the way the math flows through as you look at the data points in fame progression on the destiny board, it's more of a logarithmic regression rather than an exponential one.

You're looking for X^1/e, not X^1/2....

If I understand your ramblings sufficiently I believe you are trying to take the integral of a curve that you believe to be on an exponential growth trajectory, which it's not and why your models are breaking down.

EDIT: Totally mis-read the OP's post and had no business posting on this subject but I can't delete posts and I really do like math so here we are. :-|
it's ok, no worries about it... I think i might have gotten the answer, if thorn answer yes i got the answer for the whole formula, if of course he answer no that it for this thread i give up... If you like math maybe you can read the rambling post maybe you can help me out...

tell me what you think of this..

the formula i use was fame^.5x1.5 thorn shorten this to sqrt(x). so i input the same for each one on post number 4.. each answer definitely gives the right amount of key when killing a mob on post number 4. so the formula is correct.. the confusion part is if you use the formula for a number like 1,000,000 which is not implemented on any mob in game, it would give you 1500keys but hell get that gives 303k or so gives 1800 keys which is lower fame than 1mill... However, im starting to see a pattern in here.. first my input on 1,000,000 DOESN'T exist in the game, there is no such mob that gives that fame to test it.. so ill put the answer in here of what i think even though i wanted to wait for thorn to reply....

Here is my answer, since 1,000,000 doesn't exist. what happen if the formula= less on higher number... as you see on every number i put that correspond a screen shot gives the right key of fame without fail, but if i add the fame of hellgate with all 5 bosses down, you get 303,089 but you only get in the formula 826 keys... instead of 1800 keys . so here is what i think. what if the higher the fame the less keys on the formula, what happen if you merged all 5 bosses into one to give only 303,089 fame together, it should give 826 keys.. but seperatly it would give higher amount of keys because the formula woudln't affect smaller number seperatly but bigger numbers... in the same way a 1,000,000 super legendary isismon combine with reaper combine with archfiend [you get my point] that dies and give 1,000,000 would only give 1500keys....

I really hope this is the case, im quite exicted if this is the case cause it would put this whole thing down.. i been thinking about this all night waking up randomly to head back to the computer and figure this out... if not im going to the bar and get myself drunk to forget this ever happen.

ps Im using the theory of more=less in here which should explain everything.. plzplzplzplz let it bee
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The post was edited 1 time, last by Finalhecate ().

• Why not just throw the numerous data points you've obviously collected on a graph and then plot a line of regression?

I'm sure some of the frustrations you're encountering with your 17 significant figures are likely due to rounding errors as well... :-/

And yes, the square root of a million times 1.5 is 1,500. 1.23.40b patch UO Feluccian from Minoc, Pacifica.

The post was edited 1 time, last by TheArimatheus ().

• I told you dude...

I very much doubt anything in this game was built upon an exponential growth model. X^1/e...
1.23.40b patch UO Feluccian from Minoc, Pacifica.
• ### TheArimatheus wrote:

Why not just throw the numerous data points you've obviously collected on a graph and then plot a line of regression?

I'm sure the frustrations you're encountering with your 17 significant figures are likely due to rounding errors.

And yes, the square root of a million times 1.5 is 1,500. I don't know how to do this, however im only waiting for one answer of the dev would it really -1,500keys.. you already said yes which already exicted me but i just need the gamedesigner to confirm this and ill slap a MORE=LESS statement and shut this down... there is nothing wrong with the rounding, dont think you read the post above you, it shows the math already imgur.com/a/99Lmg0R here a screen shot look at the number 49,417, the formula does give the key number when calculating. however if you add hellgate it gives less than that it does individually.. which would be the case if more=less.. All honesty i think im just going to label it so, the more i think about it the more it makes sense... Thanks for replying ^,^

### TheArimatheus wrote:

I told you dude...

I very much doubt anything in this game was built upon an exponential growth model. X^1/e...

whether it is or isn't the formula is correct it works on all cases... even if it wasn't the formula shown on each of my post gives the right number for the mob killed in game... it is correct. anyway I 92% i got the answer so i guess im kinda done here, only thing would make this delicious is thorn replying with a yes. but im sastify with the answer and that all that matter i guess ^,^
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• ### Finalhecate wrote:

I don't know how to do this, however im only waiting for one answer of the dev would it really -1,500keys..
Yes, a if a single mob gave 1,000,000 fame you'd get 1,500 challenge points or 'keys'.

We put in a diminishing return on fame for the challenge so that it roughly takes about the same time no matter how far you've progressed into the content.

### Finalhecate wrote:

I don't know how to do this, however im only waiting for one answer of the dev would it really -1,500keys..
Yes, a if a single mob gave 1,000,000 fame you'd get 1,500 challenge points or 'keys'.
We put in a diminishing return on fame for the challenge so that it roughly takes about the same time no matter how far you've progressed into the content.
BOOM CASE CLOSED THANK YOU!!!!!! EVA_FLARELIGHT SHUT THE THREAD YAY IM GOING TO CHILLI TO CELEBRATE
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• Thread closed as per OP's request.