Blackmarket & Royal Cities

    • The BM in Caerleon is what drives prices of gear up. This is what leads to merchanting between Royals and Caerleon through the redzone.
      Just because YOU dont do this and see it as tiresome doesnt mean no one uses it. A good merchant is the one no one notices.

      BM in the Royals would do 0 for the market. It would just be a way for crafters to make easier and safer money. If you can craft without using focus and sell with a profit high enough, to make the time worth it for someone that has 2 billion, then you dont need the profit increase from the black market AT ALL.

      BM has to be in Caerleon because its the only city that you cant fasttravel(with loot) to and that you need to cross full loot territory for. Buffing city plots would just shit on solo players/small/weak guilds and give another buff to already too powerfull alliances. Also transporting from a city plot through your alliance zones is less risky than going through red zones solo.

      I think the problems you see will solve itself with time. Caerleon is a mature market, with a huge supply and demand already built up from the time Caerleon was the only relevant place. You got all the Crafting Stations on T8 already and tons of materials and gear already there. Its a mature market.
      Royals are not matured yet, but they already have a high tier supply and demand, just not at the same scale. They matured a lot since F2P but are still lacking in some high tier crafting like enchanted food. The gear demand is partially driven by the BM being in Caerleon - because the crafter doesnt want the risk and the merchant doesnt want to craft.

      If you are concerned about the economic wellbeing and viability of the Royal Cities, then im all for monitoring this and if necessary, designing things so they get/stay viable. Moving the BM is not the way to go and would ruin 95% of risky and therefore profitable merchanting

      If you just want the BM to sell to without really looking into the player demand for the gear you craft, then im 100% against you and your idea. Crafting in an MMO shouldnt be to sell to an NPC. The more player interaction is inbetween the better.
    • Lucifen wrote:

      The BM in Caerleon is what drives prices of gear up. This is what leads to merchanting between Royals and Caerleon through the redzone.
      Just because YOU dont do this and see it as tiresome doesnt mean no one uses it. A good merchant is the one no one notices.

      BM in the Royals would do 0 for the market. It would just be a way for crafters to make easier and safer money. If you can craft without using focus and sell with a profit high enough, to make the time worth it for someone that has 2 billion, then you dont need the profit increase from the black market AT ALL.

      BM has to be in Caerleon because its the only city that you cant fasttravel(with loot) to and that you need to cross full loot territory for. Buffing city plots would just shit on solo players/small/weak guilds and give another buff to already too powerfull alliances. Also transporting from a city plot through your alliance zones is less risky than going through red zones solo.

      I think the problems you see will solve itself with time. Caerleon is a mature market, with a huge supply and demand already built up from the time Caerleon was the only relevant place. You got all the Crafting Stations on T8 already and tons of materials and gear already there. Its a mature market.
      Royals are not matured yet, but they already have a high tier supply and demand, just not at the same scale. They matured a lot since F2P but are still lacking in some high tier crafting like enchanted food. The gear demand is partially driven by the BM being in Caerleon - because the crafter doesnt want the risk and the merchant doesnt want to craft.

      If you are concerned about the economic wellbeing and viability of the Royal Cities, then im all for monitoring this and if necessary, designing things so they get/stay viable. Moving the BM is not the way to go and would ruin 95% of risky and therefore profitable merchanting

      If you just want the BM to sell to without really looking into the player demand for the gear you craft, then im 100% against you and your idea. Crafting in an MMO shouldnt be to sell to an NPC. The more player interaction is inbetween the better.
      Great post. This guy gets it!

      PS. According to the Avalon Map - Caerleon will not have a realmgate leading into BZ... so... there is that... so thats why BM will only be there...
    • Forneus wrote:

      I'm one of the veterans that decided to move out of Caerleon, due to the attempt to make royal cities relevant and thought I'ld give it a go. I'm feeling the lack of black market access though. Couldn't we consider adding the black market to the royal cities?

      I predict Royals will slowly die out if this doesn't get changed eventually, market is already extremely slow moving compared to Caerleon.

      I'm at least considering relocating back to Caerleon for this very reason. I'm noticing a slow decline after the f2p buzz in Royals and noticed sales have slowed down a lot.

      Besides the lore part of Caerleon being the outlaw city I don't see any other issue if this were to be implemented, not like lore is really empathized/important in the game besides general naming convention anyway.
      The market in the Royal Cities is not slow, with the new portals it has brought them alive. I use to run all my goods to Caerleon but when they added the extra red zone for BW to Car route it killed moving goods. Now I don't have to move goods and selling at a higher price than on the Caerleon Market. The Black Market would be nice in royal cities but not needed.
    • Lucifen wrote:

      The BM in Caerleon is what drives prices of gear up. This is what leads to merchanting between Royals and Caerleon through the redzone.
      Just because YOU dont do this and see it as tiresome doesnt mean no one uses it. A good merchant is the one no one notices.

      BM in the Royals would do 0 for the market. It would just be a way for crafters to make easier and safer money. If you can craft without using focus and sell with a profit high enough, to make the time worth it for someone that has 2 billion, then you dont need the profit increase from the black market AT ALL.

      BM has to be in Caerleon because its the only city that you cant fasttravel(with loot) to and that you need to cross full loot territory for. Buffing city plots would just shit on solo players/small/weak guilds and give another buff to already too powerfull alliances. Also transporting from a city plot through your alliance zones is less risky than going through red zones solo.

      I think the problems you see will solve itself with time. Caerleon is a mature market, with a huge supply and demand already built up from the time Caerleon was the only relevant place. You got all the Crafting Stations on T8 already and tons of materials and gear already there. Its a mature market.
      Royals are not matured yet, but they already have a high tier supply and demand, just not at the same scale. They matured a lot since F2P but are still lacking in some high tier crafting like enchanted food. The gear demand is partially driven by the BM being in Caerleon - because the crafter doesnt want the risk and the merchant doesnt want to craft.

      If you are concerned about the economic wellbeing and viability of the Royal Cities, then im all for monitoring this and if necessary, designing things so they get/stay viable. Moving the BM is not the way to go and would ruin 95% of risky and therefore profitable merchanting

      If you just want the BM to sell to without really looking into the player demand for the gear you craft, then im 100% against you and your idea. Crafting in an MMO shouldnt be to sell to an NPC. The more player interaction is inbetween the better.
      I agree Royals are not matured yet but are growing fast.
    • Actually the idea of a "localized" black market might be a really cool idea, especially if you did like I said earlier, but also capped it at T4 items and below.

      Considering Martlock, Lymhurst, etc are "T4" cities, they could have a completely localized black market within the region that will NEVER buy anything above T4, which might even have a cool secondary effect like increasing the price gap between commodities by region within the Royal Continent? Also, it should have minor impact on the Caerleon BM because the RC still has 6/7 zones where dungeon loot would be "drawn from" to create buy orders that could not be satisfied through the "localized" black market and would instead be funneled back upward to Caerleon. Does the current BM even buy below T5?

      There may even be a third order effect wherein you'd see increased trade through the "village"(newbie) marketplaces of higher tier items because the Royal Continent regions would be more independent of themselves. Right now most of the RC trade is just people moving resources around the clock face to capitalize on local deficiencies. It is concerning to think that there is literally zero motivation for a T4/5 type player in their first month to craft anything if they're only operating within their home region, or either adjacent region's, marketplace(s).

      Crafting could actually become a profitable trade worth pursuing, even at the T4/5 level. And trust me, I know... it sounds crazy to me too...

      In theory it would "normalize" the distribution of demand across the markets within each region since you'd have the new localized black markets to suck up all the stuff being produced with the materials "magically created" by the "newbie" gatherers/crafters and such in the T4/5 zones. Yes, the RC markets are starting to "spin up", but the problem is that a huge majority of players out there just buy and sell on demand because they're just trying to generate capital.

      :thinking_face:
      1.23.40b patch UO Feluccian from Minoc, Pacifica.

      The post was edited 8 times, last by TheArimatheus ().

    • It seems to me, that as of a few minutes ago, the BM wasn't asking for much, and what they wanted was way underpriced.

      I didn't log back in to the alts on BW or ML islands, but I'm curious if the markets have changed in the outer cities. I saw stone has fallen at least in t4 on BW, down to 160. I've only logged in to tend the farms in the past week, but the few minutes I went looking for flippables in the BM minutes ago it seemed really dry on opportunities.
      1.23.40b patch UO Feluccian from Minoc, Pacifica.
    • TheArimatheus wrote:

      It seems to me, that as of a few minutes ago, the BM wasn't asking for much, and what they wanted was way underpriced.

      I didn't log back in to the alts on BW or ML islands, but I'm curious if the markets have changed in the outer cities. I saw stone has fallen at least in t4 on BW, down to 160. I've only logged in to tend the farms in the past week, but the few minutes I went looking for flippables in the BM minutes ago it seemed really dry on opportunities.
      It won't be dry if you do smuggling.
    • TheArimatheus wrote:

      It seems to me, that as of a few minutes ago, the BM wasn't asking for much, and what they wanted was way underpriced.

      I didn't log back in to the alts on BW or ML islands, but I'm curious if the markets have changed in the outer cities. I saw stone has fallen at least in t4 on BW, down to 160. I've only logged in to tend the farms in the past week, but the few minutes I went looking for flippables in the BM minutes ago it seemed really dry on opportunities.
      There was a Video about "how to make money with the black market" and some streamers regularly put their loot on there. I guess its just more people using it, lowering the profit margins for stuff bought in caerleon.