Blackmarket & Royal Cities

    • Forneus wrote:

      You seem to fail to understand my point.
      I'll wager you don't play in Royals that much. 3 of the Royal cities haven't been zone capped for over a week and they used to be constantly. I have chars logged in there whenever I play(which is too much lmao). Pop count is definitely going down. Is it a general trend in the entire game right now? That I don't know, but Royals are slowing down quite a bit. Batches of gear that are usually exchanged within a couple hrs to a day in Caerleon take a week+ in Royals.

      When you're crafting on so many characters as I do, you find out that there are certain holes in the Royal markets as well, sometimes I'll be the only supplier on items, this is not hyperbole and I actually don't consider it an expression of a healthy thriving market place. Volumes traded are public for the previous 4 weeks, just go check it out, then you will know instead of just "think".

      My framing of the Lore part stems entirely from how this has been mentioned as A reason in previous discussions regarding the BM. I personally couldn't care less about lore in Albion, it's not the games strong suite nor does it seem SBI tries for it to be so.

      Traveling isn't a BIG thing, even crafting with focus isn't always a thing either. Wanna see the latest larger batch that I'm aware of that has been crafted without focus and not in it's optimal city, lymhurst? :P

      cdn.discordapp.com/attachments…9041573953558/unknown.png

      All this was crafted yesterday in such a manner by one of the games top famed crafters and no it's not even for a guild willing to take a "loss" ... cause donations, it's just his private stash. This is how many of the items get crafted in the game constantly, because incentive is low and all the "TrAnSpORt & gEt + On CRaFTs" isn't really working as intended.

      Ultimately this means the price is not paid for access to the BM or general Market. People simply ignore the feature along with the rest of the market so in the end it doesn't even matter. People that bother transporting are gonna spend so much of their time doing it that the margins they are playing on & time invested means they aren't even coming out ahead. Basically they are just hunting for scraps and it's hardly worth it outside of a few lucky item flips, that are the exception to the rule.
      Your claims to expertise, with accompanying "big crafter" screen shot, are not eliciting the reaction from me that I think you expected it would. It's just more evidence that you aren't transacting with the same scope as I am, and due to that, you don't really understand the mechanics involved.

      You'd have a better argument if they hadn't just moved the realmgates to the rim. To be completely efficient you used to have to transact bi-directionally between Caer and the rim. Now you have nearly the same access to high tier resources in the rim as you do in Caer, and you are only required to transact in one direction, to Caerleon. Wanting to not have to transact at all, and get all the benefits of rim crafting is insanity.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Piddle wrote:

      Forneus wrote:

      You seem to fail to understand my point.
      I'll wager you don't play in Royals that much. 3 of the Royal cities haven't been zone capped for over a week and they used to be constantly. I have chars logged in there whenever I play(which is too much lmao). Pop count is definitely going down. Is it a general trend in the entire game right now? That I don't know, but Royals are slowing down quite a bit. Batches of gear that are usually exchanged within a couple hrs to a day in Caerleon take a week+ in Royals.

      When you're crafting on so many characters as I do, you find out that there are certain holes in the Royal markets as well, sometimes I'll be the only supplier on items, this is not hyperbole and I actually don't consider it an expression of a healthy thriving market place. Volumes traded are public for the previous 4 weeks, just go check it out, then you will know instead of just "think".

      My framing of the Lore part stems entirely from how this has been mentioned as A reason in previous discussions regarding the BM. I personally couldn't care less about lore in Albion, it's not the games strong suite nor does it seem SBI tries for it to be so.

      Traveling isn't a BIG thing, even crafting with focus isn't always a thing either. Wanna see the latest larger batch that I'm aware of that has been crafted without focus and not in it's optimal city, lymhurst? :P

      cdn.discordapp.com/attachments…9041573953558/unknown.png

      All this was crafted yesterday in such a manner by one of the games top famed crafters and no it's not even for a guild willing to take a "loss" ... cause donations, it's just his private stash. This is how many of the items get crafted in the game constantly, because incentive is low and all the "TrAnSpORt & gEt + On CRaFTs" isn't really working as intended.

      Ultimately this means the price is not paid for access to the BM or general Market. People simply ignore the feature along with the rest of the market so in the end it doesn't even matter. People that bother transporting are gonna spend so much of their time doing it that the margins they are playing on & time invested means they aren't even coming out ahead. Basically they are just hunting for scraps and it's hardly worth it outside of a few lucky item flips, that are the exception to the rule.
      Your claims to expertise, with accompanying "big crafter" screen shot, are not eliciting the reaction from me that I think you expected it would. It's just more evidence that you aren't transacting with the same scope as I am, and due to that, you don't really understand the mechanics involved.
      You'd have a better argument if they hadn't just moved the realmgates to the rim. To be completely efficient you used to have to transact bi-directionally between Caer and the rim. Now you have nearly the same access to high tier resources in the rim as you do in Caer, and you are only required to transact in one direction, to Caerleon. Wanting to not have to transact at all, and get all the benefits of rim crafting is insanity.
      Personal scope once you reach a certain point, bares little relevancy to understanding a system, so please do get of that imaginary high horse of yours. Understanding what happens at large scope has relevancy, agreed. I clearly understand the game enough to have made more than 2 billion silver, so I'm definitely not clueless, do i have perfect execution? Hell nah.

      You are chasing an IDEAL scenario, i get it... the thing is it's very much a negligible thing to do with how things currently stand. The way you look at it, your cost also doesn't seem to account for risk nor time spent nor alternatives, you don't seem to care for the big difference there is between optimal and ideal. Risk is a cost, what I'm saying is the risk+time spent currently means, what you're a suggesting holds a bad value proposition, which is also why it isn't the norm. You might do it, fair enough. I'ld say your time is wasted, but time might have 0 value to you. Investing in scaling is better, since you can scale quite a lot without adding time spent in this game.
    • What Forneus is saying is that the time spent getting to where he is doesn't count. Time only matters from this moment forward. If time is that valuable now, I wonder why anyone would waste it accumulating pixel currencies?

      2 billion is ok but not high for this game. The economy is quite large here. 1 trillion would be impressive.
    • I'd suggest the Black Market only operates in Blackzone Townplots. It would increase the spread on items (to make them more profitable) by creating travel risk since even if the townplot is fully upgraded, people would need to transport raw materials there.
      Discord: ChaosCircle#9506

      Neighborhood Watch is always recruiting!
    • Player112 wrote:

      What Forneus is saying is that the time spent getting to where he is doesn't count. Time only matters from this moment forward. If time is that valuable now, I wonder why anyone would waste it accumulating pixel currencies?

      2 billion is ok but not high for this game. The economy is quite large here. 1 trillion would be impressive.
      Hold my beer! Let's go for the trillion, imma divorce the wife, let's make it happen! Lmao
    • Abydon wrote:

      I'd suggest the Black Market only operates in Blackzone Townplots. It would increase the spread on items (to make them more profitable) by creating travel risk since even if the townplot is fully upgraded, people would need to transport raw materials there.
      This would be a cool thing because currently BZ city plots are hardly worth anything other than being a place from where you can launch attacks.
    • My imaginary high horse is in the boxes with the nearly 2 billion silver worth of T3 resources I own. So I am not currently riding it.

      You want more crafter welfare and you are bragging about how much money you have. Think about that.

      It's a scary world and if you want to ball and shot call you got to take some risks sometime. Get on your little ox and ride your little swords and armors to Caerleon.


      Abydon wrote:

      I'd suggest the Black Market only operates in Blackzone Townplots. It would increase the spread on items (to make them more profitable) by creating travel risk since even if the townplot is fully upgraded, people would need to transport raw materials there.
      So instead of crafter welfare, you want more alliance welfare. You don't really have to transport materials to the BZ, except T3. The BZ is where materials come from.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Piddle wrote:

      My imaginary high horse is in the boxes with the nearly 2 billion silver worth of T3 resources I own. So I am not currently riding it.

      You want more crafter welfare and you are bragging about how much money you have. Think about that.

      It's a scary world and if you want to ball and shot call you got to take some risks sometime. Get on your little ox and ride your little swords and armors to Caerleon.


      Abydon wrote:

      I'd suggest the Black Market only operates in Blackzone Townplots. It would increase the spread on items (to make them more profitable) by creating travel risk since even if the townplot is fully upgraded, people would need to transport raw materials there.
      So instead of crafter welfare, you want more alliance welfare. You don't really have to transport materials to the BZ, except T3. The BZ is where materials come from.
      You still don't seem to understand that there is no need to do that. I can just fast travel to Caerleon, got island setups in royals and in Caerleon, it's nothing more than a fast travel away and I'm not gonna chase Ideal by moving goods for pennies, I'll stick to optimal.

      My entire proposition is that Royals long term will suffer if they don't create parity in city infrastructure, BM should be a common thing for all cities. Before the portal change, I would have said no as well. They dramatically changed the game though, so now I believe that it should be.. Or maybe find a different way to implement it entirely.

      What's wrong with adding value to blackzone city plots making them hubs for guilds/alliances from which they actually live?

      Currently they hold little value outside of gvg's and town plot zones are nothing but barren land that's hardly used except for gatherers to restock t4-t6 mats in relative safety.
    • Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Adding BM to every city would remove the risk that is tied to transporting goods from advantageous production through red zones to BM. And game desperately needs more item destruction, not less.

      If anything BM is a bandaid to anemic economy. If you think about it - it is a huge silver generation machine that takes away "player run" from "player run economic" that this game boasts to have.
      Agreed, except that trading on BM (figuring out how to do it efficiently that is) - is still very fun. There is a reason why on Youtube some of the BM guides have some of the highest views... adding BM to every city would ruin it (and its already ruined by influx of players who watched all the YT guides). It used to be so much easier to make profit on BM - now its a bit of a hassle.

      Forneus wrote:

      As someone who is running 5 characters that only craft ( Also got none crafters, not complete crazy ), that whole "transporting goods" thing is not really a "thing".
      Its still a thing. Maybe just not for you. (not for a crafter that is). You spend your time crafting, and you dont have time to haul and sell it for another 10-30% profit, and thats okay. Part of player driven economy is that someone else (who does not craft) is willing to do that instead of you. And he will keep his profits for doing that. This is the same argument as "you dont have to craft your gear from scratch, you can just buy frm market". The game is not designed to "force" player to be fully sustainable from gathering that t2 stone, to keeping his own crafting station and crafting his own gear. Each player can do a different thing.

      Forneus wrote:

      Reality though is that it's not attractive enough for people who craft serious volumes to actually bother with it. Same reason people are happy running a factory at 95% efficiency rather than 100% The last % are gonna cost as much if not more than the first 95%, so it simply becomes unattractive to go for.
      Again - as above, I think some player will craft and sell to market. Some will buy and haul. Doing both (crafting + hauling) might be too tiresome. I gather resources... but I don't craft. I could, but its too bothersome. When I do craft - guess what? I dont do it with the materials I gathered (would take too long to get the correct amounts), I buy materials from the market and then craft. And I craft just a litte, not that much. Point being - is that someone else will do the hauling from the Royal cities to BM in Caer. Adding BM in every Royal city - will destroy it even further.

      Forneus wrote:

      Black market should still be a thing for Royal cities as long as it's a thing in Caerleon.
      I disagree. Competing on BM will become impossible, specifically for the low tier items, but potentially for all. Also think of the bots and exploiters. Right now ppl "bot" gathering to t4 in blue zone (they get killed in YZ+RZ). And have to sell gear to normal AH. If you were to put BM - they would just "print" money basically with absolute 0 risk in blue zones.

      Forneus wrote:

      I'll wager you don't play in Royals that much. 3 of the Royal cities haven't been zone capped for over a week and they used to be constantly. I have chars logged in there whenever I play(which is too much lmao). Pop count is definitely going down. Is it a general trend in the entire game right now? That I don't know, but Royals are slowing down quite a bit.
      Pop has gone down due to DDOS. Many players were still F2P before the month ended and they had nothing to lose or nothing to hold them in Albion once DDOS hit. (unlike myself for example - I've been here for 2+ yrs with a lot of assets and friends accumulated). So the F2P players fired up Fortnight or went back to DOTA once the DDOS hit. If there were given a choice to play a free game, but one that works and one that lags (DDOS) - which one do you think they'd pick.
      I do hope they come back to check Albion sometime soon tho, as DDOS seems to be over now.

      Forneus wrote:

      Ultimately this means the price is not paid for access to the BM or general Market. People simply ignore the feature along with the rest of the market so in the end it doesn't even matter.
      If it does not matter - technically you should not be complaining and starting this thread, right? :) But my real point is that for some people it might not matter, or not be worth it. Good. Whats not worth it for someone - will be worth it for another one. Supply-Demand in its beauty.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Captainrussia ().

    • Captainrussia wrote:

      Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Adding BM to every city would....
      1
      Agreed, except that trading on BM (figuring out how to do it efficiently that is) - is still very fun. There is a reason why on Youtube some of the BM guides have some of the highest views... adding BM to every city would ruin it (and its already ruined by influx of players who watched all the YT guides). It used to be so much easier to make profit on BM - now its a bit of a hassle.

      Forneus wrote:

      As someone who is running 5 characters that only craft ( Also got none crafters, not complete crazy ), that whole "transporting goods" thing is not really a "thing".
      2
      Its still a thing. Maybe just not for you. (not for a crafter that is). You spend your time crafting, and you dont have time to haul and sell it for another 10-30% profit, and thats okay. Part of player driven economy is that someone else (who does not craft) is willing to do that instead of you. And he will keep his profits for doing that. This is the same argument as "you dont have to craft your gear from scratch, you can just buy frm market". The game is not designed to "force" player to be fully sustainable from gathering that t2 stone, to keeping his own crafting station and crafting his own gear. Each player can do a different thing.

      Forneus wrote:

      Reality though is....
      3
      Again - as above, I think some player will craft and sell to market. Some will buy and haul. Doing both (crafting + hauling) might be too tiresome. I gather resources... but I don't craft. I could, but its too bothersome. When I do craft - guess what? I dont do it with the materials I gathered (would take too long to get the correct amounts), I buy materials from the market and then craft. And I craft just a litte, not that much. Point being - is that someone else will do the hauling from the Royal cities to BM in Caer. Adding BM in every Royal city - will destroy it even further.

      Forneus wrote:

      Black market should still be a thing for Royal cities as long as it's a thing in Caerleon.
      4
      I disagree. Competing on BM will become impossible, specifically for the low tier items, but potentially for all. Also think of the bots and exploiters. Right now ppl "bot" gathering to t4 in blue zone (they get killed in YZ+RZ). And have to sell gear to normal AH. If you were to put BM - they would just "print" money basically with absolute 0 risk in blue zones.

      Forneus wrote:

      I'll wager you don't play in Royals that....
      5
      Pop has gone down due to DDOS. Many players were still F2P before the month ended and they had nothing to lose or nothing to hold them in Albion once DDOS hit. (unlike myself for example - I've been here for 2+ yrs with a lot of assets and friends accumulated). So the F2P players fired up Fortnight or went back to DOTA once the DDOS hit. If there were given a choice to play a free game, but one that works and one that lags (DDOS) - which one do you think they'd pick.I do hope they come back to check Albion sometime soon tho, as DDOS seems to be over now.

      Forneus wrote:

      Ultimately this means....
      6
      If it does not matter - technically you should not be complaining and starting this thread, right? :)
      Removed a bit of my stuff so the wall of text doesn't go completely wild and added numbers to reply with, hope you don't mind :)

      1.
      Agreed youtube videos have definitely made Black Market accessible to a much bigger part of the player base than previously.

      2.
      My crafters are just on other clients than the one I play on, so to be honest I usually just play Albion like everyone else while i have some characters doing stuff in background windows. All my characters outside of Island holding ones are on seperate accounts, so I can be logged in with everything at once.

      Profits are no where close to 10-30% outside of exceptions if you look at more than singular items, i doubt anyone avgs. that in high volumes. Some of the items that are traded in high volume are even cheaper in Caerleon periodically. So cheaper in the city where you had to transport it to with redzone gank risk from a city that also has a crafting bonus to said item, because that's how the item should've arrived at the Caerleon market ideally speaking?

      3.
      I get your point, but the entire hauling thing is more tied to the player market than BM if anything, sure removing BM exclusivity would take away some of that activity. I belive that adding a crafting/refining bonus Caerleon making it competitive in Royals would be a better alternative to BM exclusivity and probably generate more of said hauling of goods.

      4.
      True, it would probably be hard for Caerleon BM sellers to compete on the lower tiered items with Royal Cities, but that's a bit of a vice versa. Caerleon should be able to better compete at the high tier .2 .3 than the rest of the Royals. So that's a two way street.

      5.
      Yeah you're probably correct, also the guy that posted steam numbers seems to indicate this. RIP, hope they come back too :)

      6.
      Ohh damn i phrased myself rather poorly there :) I didn't mean the black market didn't matter. What I meant to say was that the mechanisms surrounding the added value of royals and value of hauling don't matter enough, since people can and do choose to ignore it entirely. In an ideal scenario again this does create a hole where people can chase those margins, agreed. But why are we still seeing items that are cheaper in Caerleon than in Royals where you ideally should be crafting the items and it should also still be cheapest, because we still havn't added the value of hauling and risking RZ's? The market just ain't rational, which is actually fine imo. But it also means the value of Royal cities is diminished by it, because of lacking parity.

      Which is why I believe that Royals could be in trouble down the line, but as I mentioned earlier, let's see what the new map changes brings. I think we might end up in a situation where there is parity between all Royal cities. It could look like they are doing a mirroring of Royals to BZ's, where each Royal city gets a BZ counter part where the portals will be paired.
    • Forneus wrote:

      I'm one of the veterans that decided to move out of Caerleon, due to the attempt to make royal cities relevant and thought I'ld give it a go. I'm feeling the lack of black market access though. Couldn't we consider adding the black market to the royal cities?

      I predict Royals will slowly die out if this doesn't get changed eventually, market is already extremely slow moving compared to Caerleon.

      I'm at least considering relocating back to Caerleon for this very reason. I'm noticing a slow decline after the f2p buzz in Royals and noticed sales have slowed down a lot.

      Besides the lore part of Caerleon being the outlaw city I don't see any other issue if this were to be implemented, not like lore is really empathized/important in the game besides general naming convention anyway.
      Well, as you stated, you decided to move out of Caerleon, for whatever reasons.
      All the existing players who were based in Caer when the f2p happened had the two options: to move out or to remain. The main reasons for those who stayed were:
      - their guilds being Mercia based;
      - access to the Black Market;
      - being used / accustomed to being in Caer;
      I personally don't think that sharing the Blackmarket with the other cities would be fair unless they allow another month of free move for the player islands because with such a change the decision to move out or stay in Caer would be based on other reasons for many players and even guilds.
      That's the first thing. Another reason why the BM should be only in Caer is the fact that they should either make local BMs (as all markets and banks are in Albion) or make a Global BM which would start a series of other issues such as: crafting bonuses get a boost, updating the info to a global market in terms of sales, inconsistency with the other markets and local banks systems (cuz you'll have a game operating a local and global market).
      Yet another problem: at times prices on the BM are more profitable than the Caer market. All Royal cities however have their markets already inflated so there are low chances on getting higher prices on a potential royal BM.

      Also, it's normal for the population to decline and migrate towards Caer after they understand the game better.
    • MrsLove wrote:

      Forneus wrote:

      I'm one of the veterans that decided to move out of Caerleon, due to the attempt to make royal cities relevant and thought I'ld give it a go. I'm feeling the lack of black market access though. Couldn't we consider adding the black market to the royal cities?

      I predict Royals will slowly die out if this doesn't get changed eventually, market is already extremely slow moving compared to Caerleon.

      I'm at least considering relocating back to Caerleon for this very reason. I'm noticing a slow decline after the f2p buzz in Royals and noticed sales have slowed down a lot.

      Besides the lore part of Caerleon being the outlaw city I don't see any other issue if this were to be implemented, not like lore is really empathized/important in the game besides general naming convention anyway.
      Well, as you stated, you decided to move out of Caerleon, for whatever reasons.All the existing players who were based in Caer when the f2p happened had the two options: to move out or to remain. The main reasons for those who stayed were:
      - their guilds being Mercia based;
      - access to the Black Market;
      - being used / accustomed to being in Caer;
      I personally don't think that sharing the Blackmarket with the other cities would be fair unless they allow another month of free move for the player islands because with such a change the decision to move out or stay in Caer would be based on other reasons for many players and even guilds.
      That's the first thing. Another reason why the BM should be only in Caer is the fact that they should either make local BMs (as all markets and banks are in Albion) or make a Global BM which would start a series of other issues such as: crafting bonuses get a boost, updating the info to a global market in terms of sales, inconsistency with the other markets and local banks systems (cuz you'll have a game operating a local and global market).
      Yet another problem: at times prices on the BM are more profitable than the Caer market. All Royal cities however have their markets already inflated so there are low chances on getting higher prices on a potential royal BM.

      Also, it's normal for the population to decline and migrate towards Caer after they understand the game better.
      I also stated nothing is preventing me from heading back, got Islands in both ends. I've been in Caerleon and Mercia since launch, I basically just liked the idea of trying something different to be fair and i think the Royal cities look way cooler after having looked at Caerleon stone and sewers for what is now years.

      This is not about my own motivation as I'm not limited outside of a little hassle and a couple hauls. Lets more look at it as a general state of the game issue, i realise not everyone has the same easy-mode relocation option. My motivation is that i liked the idea of making royal cities relevant and the BM is a necessity for it to be so. With how the game currently works, not having it will potentially prevent Royal Cities from maintaining a steady population and a healthy market, as you say people migrate towards Caer. Which is exactly why I'm bringing it up.

      Obviously a free Island move should be allowed if such a change were to be implemented. The Black Market is basically already somewhat global depending on how you see things, since it's loot is global in scope, but sure let's make it local and tie the loot drop tables to peoples portal lock maybe or the zones? This is just technical stuff, I got no issue if the BM remained as is with access from all cities.
    • I get with what forneus is saying, and he is not entirely wrong about his claim.

      The way I would implement his suggestion, if black market was to be shared with royals to keep the majority of the buy orders generated by the black market in caerleon in like 80% in caerleon. and 20% of the buy orders move to royals (4% each city).

      Caerleon remains the trade hub, the signifcant hub, and royals are given a flavour of what 'endgame' is.
    • kreeshak wrote:

      I get with what forneus is saying, and he is not entirely wrong about his claim.

      The way I would implement his suggestion, if black market was to be shared with royals to keep the majority of the buy orders generated by the black market in caerleon in like 80% in caerleon. and 20% of the buy orders move to royals (4% each city).

      Caerleon remains the trade hub, the signifcant hub, and royals are given a flavour of what 'endgame' is.
      Even something like this could be a thing.

      The way i see it is that, we got a lot of veterans that play from royal cities with the recent gate changes. I think we need to reconsider how we see Caerleon. Caerleon is the top tier city in terms of it's BZ access to the top tier continent, this is Caerleon's value and the reason the top tier players compete in Mercia. So it's top tier, but not necessarily the only end game city, but it is the city with the highest tiers and most competitive hardcore content.

      Practically all of the BZ's are kinda end game in their own right, the difference lies in how competitive, hardcore and rewarding the environment is (GvG caps, ZvZs, General BZ size, Enchant rates etc.).
    • Zbrkesbris wrote:

      Adding BM to every city would remove the risk that is tied to transporting goods from advantageous production through red zones to BM
      That's not where the risk should be in end game though. The real risk should be from city plot crafting and transportation from black zone back to town. The problem is city plots aren't attractive enough to craft from - ESPECIALLY ones not connected to Caerleon for the black market auction house.
    • If you could localize the black market to within the region perhaps...

      i.e.: when a Mob is killed in Blyn Brae region and the RNG says "you get a T5 cape" but there's no cape in the kidde, which would traditionally trigger a global buy order on the black market, it instead triggers a black market order localized to the Ft Sterling marketplace, then that might work.

      But I think I'm with most of the other people in that the whole purpose of the black market is to move items through the playerbase, then you've gotta have access to it isolated within the red zones. :-/

      Edit: If this or something similar has already been proposed and discredited, then please disregard, I just skimmed.
      1.23.40b patch UO Feluccian from Minoc, Pacifica.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TheArimatheus ().

    • The markets should remain as they are to ensure people who can't trade be ganked by those who can. The weaker players who were spoon fed by the BM must face the risk of the shark infested royal city markets should they venture out of their confines. This is a full loot PVP game. Nowhere does it say this is a PvBM game. People should not risk what they can't afford, be that time or silver.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Player112 ().