Vanity & Customization

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    • Ravenar wrote:

      So, I repeat. Easy fix would be not to transform mounts automatically to tokens. But instead, players can choose to make the switch if they want.
      That would indeed be a way to address this issue. However, from a development point of view, we'd absolutely want to avoid this as it creates a possibly permanent edge case / legacy issue with the way mounts are handled. There is a very high chance that every time we make changes / adjustments / improvements to the mount system going forward, we'd have to consider this special case as it might impact certain things, with a significant chance that it creates extra issues / effort. Also, there would be either weird side effects, such as us getting lots of reports of the "turn of mount skins" feature not working correctly, etc.

      The changeover from the current Albion specific "vanity mount" system to the new skin system is indeed not without flaws. The good thing is though that the new system is what you'd consider a "standard" skin system as it's being done by almost all games, with the benefit that it is easy to understand, easy to work with and easy for us to expand and feed content into it. I'd argue that had we used the new system right from the start, most people wouldn't see an issue with it. It's the transition that is not ideal, however, I'd argue that the end result - having a clean skin system that fits well into the game and is easy to handle (also from a development efficiency point of view) - is worth it.

    • Ravenar wrote:

      I could link several different points but this is the hughestiest: ( I am lazy )

      Vanity & Customization
      Hey there,

      I hope I understand your point correctly, let me know if I am wrong. You are concerned that when, for example, the spectral wolf is changed to a skin, then you cannot ride it on its own anymore as you would need a normal direwolf as well.

      So the downside is that you'd need to get a normal direwolf to compensate for this.

      However, the upside is that the value of the spectral wolf skin is almost certainly going to be higher than that of the current spectral wolf, the difference in value should therefore easily make up for the fact that you'd need to get a normal direwolf to use the skin. Secondly, if you get killed, you'll retain the ability to make a normal direwolf look like a direwolf forever, finally being able to use the spectral wolf in open world PvP settings.

      I'd say that the upsides here clearly exceed the downsides.

      Now the other point mentioned here is that the value jump in the transition from special mounts to mount skins has been very high, due to the fact that the mounts are no longer obtainable. One could see this as a downside or upside, depending on one's point of view. A lot of games with cosmetics (say, League of Legends, etc) have skins that are no longer obtainable. It is also already part of vanity mount system that we have right now (as most of the special mounts have the same stats as normal mounts). The price jump comes mostly from the fact that under the new system the mount skins are much more usable than the old mounts were. Of course, if you use them, they get consumed as well and this certainly will reduce supply of these items over time. However, based on what we see in other games, it is extremely unlikely that certain mount skins will vanish altogether.

      Finally, once the new skin system is in place, based on how it is received in general, it's relatively easy for us to release new skins for mounts at a certain pace, making sure that there are always some cool options to chose from that are much easier to get.

    • Korn wrote:

      The good thing is though that the new system is what you'd consider a "standard" skin system as it's being done by almost all games,
      Almost all games = Eve Online. Hehe, sorry could not resist. But I agree 100%. You guys should just do your thing and not listen to the whiners. I knew that collectible mounts (read = collectible items) wasn't really "a thing" because I've learned my lessons from other games, where eventually DEVs change the game where those items lose value or become useless or just less useful. Point is - don't invest into collectible mounts, they will lose value at some point with some change, especially in a full loot PVP game, where you cant even take them out of your bank (okay, city).

      Korn wrote:

      I'd argue that had we used the new system right from the start, most people wouldn't see an issue with it. It's the transition that is not ideal, however, I'd argue that the end result - having a clean skin system that fits well into the game and is easy to handle (also from a development efficiency point of view) - is worth it.
      100% agree. Just do your thing guys. I think this is a great feature. People who invested into the "rare mount" commodity are now pissed, because those commodities have lost value or will disappear.
      Welcome to the real world! - I hope they learned a vital lesson in a virtual environment and won't make that mistake IRL outside of the game. Free lessons are always good! ;)

      Korn wrote:

      A lot of games with cosmetics (say, League of Legends, etc) have skins that are no longer obtainable.
      Or *cought*...Eve Online...*cough*, where even the skin preview window looks identical to Albion's hehe ;)

    • Captainrussia wrote:

      People who invested into the "rare mount" commodity are now pissed, because those commodities have lost value or will disappear.
      Have lost.... Wait what? Disappear, for sure!

      Can you tell me uneducated how skin system has changed markets in other games?

      I can see collectors disappear. Who you gonna trade with, only the 1% Whales and Guild leadership. Maybe few will stick around for a while?

    • @Captainrussia

      Lost value?

      They've increased around 5-10x across the board, this is even before item destruction has occurred. Korn even confirms the "value jump has been very high".

      I've no clue where you got the lost value idea from.

      Ironically they don't respond to the complaints. Most complaints are regarding the item destruction and not the idea of skins. Nice, let's pretend to respond and let's all pretend we got an answer.

    • Ravenar wrote:

      Can you tell me uneducated how skin system has changed markets in other games?
      I didn't call you uneducated btw ;)

      So one example (Im sure there are many out there) was when certain "rare items" (ships) were released in Eve Online, and the skin system was not even in place. You could obtain those items through some quest grinding for points, etc. Then those rare items (ships) got removed from the game, so the only way to have that items with that skin - was to have obtained it, to trade for it with the collectors, and pay billions to get it. Prices skyrocketed.

      Then the skin system cam out, and many other new skis were added to the game. The old non-obtainable ship (item) remained in the game, but its price dropped significantly, as it wasn't just a skin, it was an entire item, so you were to lose it in full loot PVP - poof! IT would be gone. While all the new skins that got released pretty much over-shadowed this once-unique ship (item). You could have similar or better looking skins now via the new skin system, so this 1 old ship (item) still remained a "collector's item" but not so much from a skin perspective anymore.

      Ravenar wrote:

      I can see collectors disappear. Who you gonna trade with, only the 1% Whales and Guild leadership. Maybe few will stick around for a while?
      I don't see why collectors would disappear? You still have those rare skins (no longer items, but now skins) that noone else has. You can't trade them, unless you convert them into a consumable item. So you can still trade them if you really wanted to. And now you can actually use them outside of the city... I read like first 3-4 pages of this post (its on page 11 now - too much for me to spend time reading TBH, don't blame me plz), and afaik not much is being removed, most of the rare items are just getting converted into skins. So whats the big deal?

      If you had a Ghostwolf pre-patch - you can still have one now (a skinned Direwolf), while I still cannot have it unless I buy the skin. And Im pretty sure noone will be selling the skins or the prices would be as outrageous as buying a Ghostwolf...

    • Captainrussia wrote:

      Ravenar wrote:

      Can you tell me uneducated how skin system has changed markets in other games?
      I didn't call you uneducated btw ;)
      so this 1 old ship (item) still remained a "collector's item" but not so much from a skin perspective anymore.

      Ravenar wrote:

      I can see collectors disappear. Who you gonna trade with, only the 1% Whales and Guild leadership. Maybe few will stick around for a while?
      I don't see why collectors would disappear? You still have those rare skins (no longer items, but now skins) that noone else has. You can't trade them, unless you convert them into a consumable item. So you can still trade them if you really wanted to. And now you can actually use them outside of the city... I read like first 3-4 pages of this post (its on page 11 now - too much for me to spend time reading TBH, don't blame me plz), and afaik not much is being removed, most of the rare items are just getting converted into skins. So whats the big deal?
      If you had a Ghostwolf pre-patch - you can still have one now (a skinned Direwolf), while I still cannot have it unless I buy the skin. And Im pretty sure noone will be selling the skins or the prices would be as outrageous as buying a Ghostwolf...
      No, I called myself uneducated :D I never played Eve. That makes sense. New market will replace the old. And, yes. You are probably right. Some collectors might start collecting the new skins. And perhaps some can afford to trade with the referral stuff.

      Few points, that you may have missed:
      - We do not have option to convert mounts to skins. It is automatic.
      - Prices for Ghostwolves are already 500 mill and up from 150-200 that it was pre-announcement.

    • Korn wrote:

      A lot of games with cosmetics (say, League of Legends, etc) have skins that are no longer obtainable.
      Hey @Korn and thank you for your answer. I just wanna say that it's true that games such as League have limited skins that are no longer obtainable through direct purchase, yet their loot chests (Hextech Chests) system include most of the legacy skins with a low chance of dropping one of the purchasable or legacy skins, making only a few truly unobtainable. With the current mount skins discussion it seems like quite a big ratio of the skins (all referral mounts + others) will be unobtainable.
      Let's take as example Sabertooth Rex which was obtainable just once and compare it to Triumphant Ryze which can be obtained even now by winning a tournament...
      I'm not saying that they should be easily obtainable, but thinking that players don't have any chance to earn those skins is sad... And players will rarely get the surprise experience of actually looting a skin token from another player...
      I've seen the suggestion of for each 25 referrals let the players pick one of the legacy skins. I'd say, give a token that unlocks a random not already owned legacy skin for each 5 or 10 referrals (except the first 5 for the current Referral season mount/ token), so that not everybody picks instantly the ghost wolf and doesn't influence the market in a certain direction.
      It will not affect the market and will give the players the feeling that they can catch up eventually.

    • There has been one static thing. Pre-F2P referral mounts will never come back. Sure you might get a skin that is even cooler looking than a Tiger or Ghostwolf. But the exact same item should never return. It has been said so many times. That would be the final blow for trust.

      Well, I don't know anymore. I hope the future skins will be awesome! But do not mess the legacy items completely, please.

    • re-token-ing would be bad idea(there is no games which I know, that allow for that)
      If it would be in game, then rare items wouldbe less worth, as You could simple think "i need money NOW, im going to sell what I dont need".
      Other then that, fouders get some cool staffs, and atleast let as have something which doesnt awake our greeds, so we will not change our mind xD

      Keep it as special border for avatar. Once you have used it, You cant turn back(but as a additional thing, You can still sell it if not used!)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Qolkkalom ().

    • Well, looks like they are pretty commited to releasing the update as planned despite the obvious drawbacks of which they are aware. Can't say I agree with the reasoning. Just because other games release skins that you can't get anymore doesn't mean it's a good idea. Other games such as League of Legends that have a system of locked unobtainable skins is precisely the reason why I don't play those sort of games. There's nothing more terrible as a collector in general than seeing items you will never have regardless of how hard you work in game. The fact Albion wasn't like that and was an exception to the rule was the reason I loved it so much. Sure, there are some mounts that may survive in the market despite consumption such as Legendary Explorer mounts as there as so many in game, but other mounts such as the Ghostwolf, Master's Giant Stag, Recruiter's Giant Stag and more will not survive.

      I also don't see how having a skin vs. a separate mount makes implementing future items any easier, but then again I'm no programmer so I don't know on that front. To my nonprogrammer mind, you are still creating 3D models. The only thing I can think of that might make implementing future items as skins a tiny bit easier is not having to fill in weight, descriptions, and other info in an items information box especially if they don't release them as consumable tokens but instead earned or bought through the vanity store.

      The devs may see this update as worth it but to me it seems like the loss of freedom of choice as I can't ride a rare mount and later sell it. It seems like a loss of freedom of choice as the pool of unique mount stats grows thinner. It goes against the original promise of the the game that "you are what you wear". Finally, I will have to face overpriced future recruiter skins and more.

      I feel bad for the people who were not like me and started collecting since the beginning. I may have every collectible item except 3 but I know most people were not as lucky as me. After this update, those people will have to face the sad idea that there are some mounts they will never have as they have all been consumed. Some may tell me I'm lucky as I have all those skins plus extras to sell for tons of money, but I don't feel lucky. I feel like the game that I fell if love with is changing for the worse. I later read they were going to do the same thing with clothing which means many of the negatives I stated in previous posts will spread to more collectible items killing further markets. I will withhold further judgement until the update is released. Maybe what the devs are envisioning is different than what I'm envisioning in my head. I'll give them that benefit of the doubt for now. If what I am currently envisioning comes to fruition, I will have to face the facts that this is no longer the game I love and make the decision to quit the game for good. I will not sit and watch Albion Online go down the tubes like I did with RuneScape. I'm not enduring that a second time.
      Alpha and Beta Tester, Legendary Founder and Starter, Recruiter

    • Ravenar wrote:

      Few points, that you may have missed:
      - We do not have option to convert mounts to skins. It is automatic.
      Yep, I literally just went and re-read the OP announcement to double check on that. Regardless, I think they are doing that to "standardize" it - i.e. not leaving anyone a choice to keep a mount. Everyone will be "forced" to have a skin, and will have an option to trade that skin (via the consumable item) - looks all good in my book. They are being fair to everyone.

      Ravenar wrote:

      Few points, that you may have missed:
      - Prices for Ghostwolves are already 500 mill and up from 150-200 that it was pre-announcement.
      I mean... this is normal "hype", and should not be a surprise to anyone who understands economics (every "collector" who collects rare things - should already know and understand this concept)

      a) This happens in every game, especially one that has player driven economy, when a "somewhat" game changing announcement is made before the patch hits. If you ever watched artifact prices - their price jumps up as well, when major balancing changes happen (happened to Dual Swords, Gravaguard boots (before that change they were crap) and especially Demon boots, may others...etc..).

      b) The price change of about 250% for Ghostwolves is nothing (percent or proportion-wise), as an example the price of the Bonehorse elixir went up from 400 silver to 21,000 after the announcement, thats 5250% increase!!!

      c) The fact that these prices ho up - does not actually change anything and they will eventually come down. Its just speculators trying to make a quick buck... Im not saying prices will come down to pre-patch values (they will not) but for the next 1 month the prices on all these "new" items (they are not really new - but will be "new" as in "consumables for skins") will be waaaay over inflated.


      Zorva wrote:

      Other games such as League of Legends that have a system of locked unobtainable skins is precisely the reason why I don't play those sort of games.
      Lol this is the lamest and most victimized excuse I've ever seen. You refuse to play a game not because of its core gameplay - but instead because of some "cosmetic" fluff??!?? LOL, this blows my mind.

      You're like those people who are given a free car, but you refuse to take it because you don't like the color. Who gives a Fk, you got your collectibles when you did. Be happy with it. I don't play Albion just for some collectibles (they are kind of nice, but not a big thing really), the day I proclaim that "I cant play a game because of some of its cosmetic fluff" is the day I know I really need to step away from a computer.

      Zorva wrote:

      There's nothing more terrible as a collector in general than seeing items you will never have regardless of how hard you work in game.
      You can still have all these items if you buy them as skins. There was 40 Ghostwolves - there will now be 40 skins. Same supply/demand will control their availability on the market. If some people wanna "hoard" them - they will. If I ever wanna buy one - Im sure I can find someone who is selling (again - subject to Supply/Demand), although for me the value of cosmetic fluff does not justify getting it.

      Plus I've collected a few things IRL (coins and had a stamps collection passed on to me from my grandfather) and I know that value of "collectibles" IRL is very different from virtual collectibles. Virtual item "value" is fake - and has a very limited "lifetime" - i.e when the game dies and the servers are turned off (and more often then not, that happens within 10, at most 20 yrs of a game's lifespan) - those items disappear, just like the entire game does.

      IRL - collectible and rare items can live on for centuries, even when their owner dies, they outlive their owners, and move on to another owner or another generation. IRL collectible value is real. Virtual collectible item value is fake (and therefore it hold very little to no value, and most often then not its just overinflated "hype").

      So stop your bitching and just move on. Jesus....

      Zorva wrote:

      After this update, those people will have to face the sad idea that there are some mounts they will never have as they have all been consumed.
      yeah, except that they can just buy a skin and pop it onto their mount. When there was 40 Ghostwoves - there were still "some" (ROFL - more like thousands) of people who would never have 1, because 40 cannot be split between 40,000 lol. Same thing will be with skins.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Captainrussia ().

    • Korn wrote:

      The changeover from the current Albion specific "vanity mount" system
      This isnt a system. To pretend it is is disingenuous.

      Korn wrote:

      the new system is what you'd consider a "standard" skin system as it's being done by almost all games
      So what? Albion isnt "most games". Its a sell out of some of the core game principles.

      This is yet another example of the Dev team being hell bent on implementing a system regardless of player feedback or concerns. Remember the last time that happened? Making Caerleon the centre of the world? How did that work out for you ... ?
      Midgard
      T8 Fibre, Ore, Hide, Wood & Stone Gatherer
      T8 Gathering Gear Crafter
      T8 Bags & Capes Crafter

    • Zorva wrote:

      (...) Just because other games release skins that you can't get anymore doesn't mean it's a good idea. Other games such as League of Legends that have a system of locked unobtainable skins is precisely the reason why I don't play those sort of games. There's nothing more terrible as a collector in general than seeing items you will never have regardless of how hard you work in game.
      (...)
      it is called "life".
      I do enjoy being owner of such a rare skins, when others cant have it xD
      It feel that im appreciated by devs, tgat ive been with them since beta(or earlier).
      I life you cant have rare items aswell, no metter how hard you try it is in hands of someone who is >indeed< bigger fish then ye are.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Qolkkalom ().

    • Qolkkalom wrote:

      Zorva wrote:

      (...) Just because other games release skins that you can't get anymore doesn't mean it's a good idea. Other games such as League of Legends that have a system of locked unobtainable skins is precisely the reason why I don't play those sort of games. There's nothing more terrible as a collector in general than seeing items you will never have regardless of how hard you work in game.
      (...)
      it is called "life".I do enjoy being owner of such a rare skins, when others cant have it xD
      It feel that im appreciated by devs, tgat ive been with them since beta(or earlier).
      I life you cant have rare items aswell, no metter how hard you try it is in hands of someone who is >indeed< bigger fish then ye are.
      The thing is, this is essentially BoE(Bind on Equip). Albion was NEVER about BoE gear. They're going down that slipper slope.

      Remember recruiter mounts only being t3, purely cosmetic? Then we got more than T3 vanity mounts both as recruiter mounts, battlemoutns, monthly rewards.

      SBI and their history, I don't trust them one inch any longer. They're slowly moving away from principles of what the game was originally envisioned/sold as.

      Soon to be WoW or another of the 100s of dead themepark mmos, just with worse graphics.

    • Korn wrote:

      (as most of the special mounts have the same stats as normal mounts)
      This is a false statement. Look at H4n1baL's list from the original post. My notes are in RED

      H4n1baL wrote:

      Riding Horses:
      - Legendary Explorer's Horse
      - Legendary Adventurer's Horse
      - Horse Macabre
      - Recruiter's Horse
      - Recruiter's Pony

      Armored Horses:
      - Arena Veteran's Armored Horse

      Oxen:
      - Legendary Explorer's Ox
      - Legendary Adventurer's Cart
      - Recruiter's Yak
      - Recruiter's Bighorn Ram - more HP, faster, more carry weight vs base T6 Ox

      Direwolves:
      - Ghostwolf (the white version of the direwolf)
      - Specter Wolf
      - Recruiter's Grey Wolf
      - Recruiter's Dire Fox
      - Recruiter's Saint Bernard
      - Recruiter's Bloodhound
      - Recruiter's Husky Sled - slower than base mount and has carry weight

      Stags:
      - Master's Giant Stag (the T6 white version of the stag) - faster than base mount, more carry weight
      - Yule Stag - faster than base mount, more carry weight
      - Recruiter's Giant Stag - faster than base mount, more carry weight
      - Recruiter's Impala - slower than base mount, less carry weight

      Cougars:
      - Arena Veteran's Armored Sabertooth - slower than base mount, has armor
      - Sabertooth Rex (The mount that was given out to our Arena tournament winners) - slower than base mount, has armor
      - Recruiter's Tiger - slower than base mount, has armor
      - Recruiter's White Tiger - slower than base mount, has armor

      Direboars:
      - Domesticated Hog - much slower than base mount
      - Recruiter's Pig - much slower than base mount

      Lizards:
      - Recruiter's Sand Salamander - faster than base mount

      Donkeys:
      - Jack o' Donkey - more carry weight than base mount
      - Recruiter's Donkey - more carry weight than base mount
      As you can see, with the exception of the dire wolf variants, most of the vanity mounts are unique in more than just appearance.


      Korn wrote:

      However, the upside is that the value of the spectral wolf skin is almost certainly going to be higher than that of the current spectral wolf, the difference in value should therefore easily make up for the fact that you'd need to get a normal direwolf to use the skin. Secondly, if you get killed, you'll retain the ability to make a normal direwolf look like a direwolf forever, finally being able to use the spectral wolf in open world PvP settings.

      I'd say that the upsides here clearly exceed the downsides.
      There are so many downsides that you're not considering. The value is not going up because they're more useful, but because as soon as this patch goes live a huge number of mount skins will be consumed and can never be traded again. For extreme cases like the ghostwolf where there are already very few left, as soon as they're consumable the supply will become so small that they will command huge values if they are ever even traded at all. The other big downside is that, as other's have mentioned, we're essentially going down the slippery slope of bind-on-equip items that completely go against the core of Albion as a full loot PvP centric MMO. If I wanted to play a game that focused on collectible skins or items that you have ZERO RISK of losing, I'd be playing a dumb game like WOW or Fortnite. Albion is one of the few, and probably the only well executed full loot PvP MMO that provides that visceral adrenaline rush that comes from games with a real sense of risk vs reward.

      Really hope you reconsider your current plan for implementing this. @Korn
      AO Quick Reference Guide
      Discord: Grimhawke#9254


    • .

      I do not agree with the skin because it means that I lost my rare frame forever, that it helps me to have a skin of my saddle if you do not have all the statistics that I like, I think what they do is unfair and stupid if I buy or get a rare mount with a lot of effort is to have it and use it completely with its appearance and statistics, now you tell me that my mount will no longer have the statistics that I like and they will give me a case of cheap makeup so that I put it on some cheap mount and it will only look like the one I had! and that besides that I lost the money or the time I invested to get it, I think it's the stupidest thing I've heard so I'm left without my saddle and I lose the money and the time I invested to get it where the exclusivity remains, personally I do not want that my mount becomes a simple skin. I think they have many things to improve and the frames are not one of them, the truth is I'm very upset with this situation is really very stupid.

    • what happens to the few masterpiece rare mounts in game right now? I myself happen to own a masterpiece giant stag.

      11 pages of mostly players disagreeing with the changes.. you really should consider what most of us are saying here : leave old rare mounts as they are and u can introduce whatever new skins you want. Just add a useless skill for each of the old rares to distinguish them from mount skins.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by chAnze ().

    • chAnze wrote:

      what happens to the few masterpiece rare mounts in game right now? I myself happen to own a masterpiece giant stag.

      11 pages of mostly players disagreeing with the changes.. you really should consider what most of us are saying here : leave old rare mounts as they are and u can introduce whatever new skins you want. Just add a useless skill for each of the old rares to distinguish them from mount skins.
      I didn't even factor that into my previous posts as I don't own any masterpiece limited edition items. I feel for you. You paid extra money to get a masterpiece version of a rare mount to get better carry weight and now it doesn't matter. Its going to be turned into a skin same as a non masterpiece version. Looks like you got cheated out of the extra money to get a masterpiece version and you will not be compensated for it, just like when they took away an old ring, leftovers of a pie, and grocery bags from collectors who spent money on them and were not compensated. This just doesn't seem right to me to cheat people out of the money they spent to get masterpiece versions of mounts. Hopefully they address this issue. Perhaps offering a masterpiece version of a basic mount the skin can go on would be in order.

      Grimhawke-EB wrote:

      Korn wrote:

      (as most of the special mounts have the same stats as normal mounts)
      This is a false statement. Look at H4n1baL's list from the original post. My notes are in RED

      H4n1baL wrote:

      Riding Horses:
      - Legendary Explorer's Horse
      - Legendary Adventurer's Horse
      - Horse Macabre
      - Recruiter's Horse
      - Recruiter's Pony

      Armored Horses:
      - Arena Veteran's Armored Horse

      Oxen:
      - Legendary Explorer's Ox
      - Legendary Adventurer's Cart
      - Recruiter's Yak
      - Recruiter's Bighorn Ram - more HP, faster, more carry weight vs base T6 Ox

      Direwolves:
      - Ghostwolf (the white version of the direwolf)
      - Specter Wolf
      - Recruiter's Grey Wolf
      - Recruiter's Dire Fox
      - Recruiter's Saint Bernard
      - Recruiter's Bloodhound
      - Recruiter's Husky Sled - slower than base mount and has carry weight

      Stags:
      - Master's Giant Stag (the T6 white version of the stag) - faster than base mount, more carry weight
      - Yule Stag - faster than base mount, more carry weight
      - Recruiter's Giant Stag - faster than base mount, more carry weight
      - Recruiter's Impala - slower than base mount, less carry weight

      Cougars:
      - Arena Veteran's Armored Sabertooth - slower than base mount, has armor
      - Sabertooth Rex (The mount that was given out to our Arena tournament winners) - slower than base mount, has armor
      - Recruiter's Tiger - slower than base mount, has armor
      - Recruiter's White Tiger - slower than base mount, has armor

      Direboars:
      - Domesticated Hog - much slower than base mount
      - Recruiter's Pig - much slower than base mount

      Lizards:
      - Recruiter's Sand Salamander - faster than base mount

      Donkeys:
      - Jack o' Donkey - more carry weight than base mount
      - Recruiter's Donkey - more carry weight than base mount
      As you can see, with the exception of the dire wolf variants, most of the vanity mounts are unique in more than just appearance.

      Korn wrote:

      However, the upside is that the value of the spectral wolf skin is almost certainly going to be higher than that of the current spectral wolf, the difference in value should therefore easily make up for the fact that you'd need to get a normal direwolf to use the skin. Secondly, if you get killed, you'll retain the ability to make a normal direwolf look like a direwolf forever, finally being able to use the spectral wolf in open world PvP settings.

      I'd say that the upsides here clearly exceed the downsides.
      There are so many downsides that you're not considering. The value is not going up because they're more useful, but because as soon as this patch goes live a huge number of mount skins will be consumed and can never be traded again. For extreme cases like the ghostwolf where there are already very few left, as soon as they're consumable the supply will become so small that they will command huge values if they are ever even traded at all. The other big downside is that, as other's have mentioned, we're essentially going down the slippery slope of bind-on-equip items that completely go against the core of Albion as a full loot PvP centric MMO. If I wanted to play a game that focused on collectible skins or items that you have ZERO RISK of losing, I'd be playing a dumb game like WOW or Fortnite. Albion is one of the few, and probably the only well executed full loot PvP MMO that provides that visceral adrenaline rush that comes from games with a real sense of risk vs reward.
      Really hope you reconsider your current plan for implementing this. @Korn
      Thank you for posting that list. I knew that statement regarding mounts being largely the same wasn't true but I didn't feel like making a list just to prove the point. I fully agree with your notion that Albion was sold to us as a full loot PvP centric MMO and that creating skins that cannot be looted or taken away defeats the spirit of the game. A lot of mounts and costumes are about account locked and this isn't fair to the PvP community.

      Captainrussia wrote:

      So stop your bitching and just move on. Jesus....
      Hey buddy lets keep it friendly. I'm just stating my concerns about the implications of the update. I just want to make sure developers take everything into account before they do this release. If they decide to go through with the update, that's cool. It's their game and they can do what they want. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and I'll wait to see how the update influences the game. However, I also made it clear that if all the negative consequences I laid out become reality, then this isn't the kind of game I want to be playing. That's my decision. You are a different kind of player than I am. You play for game mechanics and I play to collect. I respect why you play the game and I hope you can do the same for me. Most of the reasons why I address the issues that I have isn't for me. I am keeping the community in mind and how this will impact it. Like I said, I'm set. I have every skin but one and extras to sell for tons of money. Even though I could be greedy and revel in the update, I'm thinking of other players and how this will impact them. I've said what I said in previous posts because I love this game and I don't want to see it go down the wrong road.
      Alpha and Beta Tester, Legendary Founder and Starter, Recruiter