Suggestion to Buff Item Powers = More Balanced PVP for Higher Risk

    • Suggestion to Buff Item Powers = More Balanced PVP for Higher Risk

      The problem right now is I can go with t4 and can win against t8 players. This is not balanced at all the t8 player should be able to win against me with just auto attacks.
      Item power differences are too small.

      For example T4 spear Item power 700 = 80 Damage / 88 Damage per second. max hitpoints 82 + hitpoint regen bonus +5%.
      T8 spear Item power 1060 = 107 Damage / 117 Damage per second. max hitpoints 101 + hitpoint regen bonus +5%.

      T4 Assassin jacket 137 armor + max hitpoints 308 + max energy 26 + cc resistance 63.
      T8 Assassin jacket 164 armor + max hitpoints 520 + max energy 47 + cc resistance 98.

      And yes there are specs in the game which give you more item power so more damage and armor. The best way to balance this out would be making lower tiers benifit less from specs.
      So that means T4 benifits up to 20 spec T5 40 spec T6 60 spec T7 80 spec T8 100 spec.

      And item powers need to be doubled per tier. For example T4 spear = 80 Damage and T8 = 107 Damage right now. T8 should be 160 Damage. This should be the same for armor.
      This way the game is going to be more balanced towards risk vs reward.

      This system is not only good for pvp players its good for gatherers too. Most gatherers use T8+ so that means they will be able to easy fight against T4 / T5 / T6 players that try to gank them.

      At the end everybody is going to be happy :)
    • What differense is in % of item power between Tiers, and what difference in dmg/deff between tiers?
      Because dmg compared to item power have relation if You take a note on some changes with balance.
      Take note on that, skilled player should be able outplay someone who dont now how to use more expensive items by just wearing it. If You dont know how to use something, why it should do rest of the "work"?

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Qolkkalom ().

    • God please no. SBI don't do this. Your own example for the spear, the DPS increases by 33%. That means, as long as they are playing vaguely competent, the player with the T8 spear should easily win. This isn't even taking into account their extra health/resistance if they have higher armor too.

      You think someone in T8 should be able to afk-auto-attack and win? That's ridiculous, exactly how games SHOULDN'T work. Good gear should give you an advantage, not make you invincible.

      The balance of gear in Albion is great. You definitely feel it, it matters, but it doesn't decide a fight. MMORPGs where gear power decides everything suck.
    • A T8 player will win 99 out of 100 fights against a T4 player on a 1v1 situation, if not 100 (disregarding spec). Making the T8 stronger will not change that. The T8 player will win easier, but he would have won anyway, wouldnt't he?

      When thinking of IP we gotta think of 1v2 or 1v3 and other outnumbered situations. Should a T8 player be able to fight off 2 T4 players? How about 3? Or 4?

      Right now, a T8 player is not likely to win a 1v2 fight against T4 players (remember, disregarding spec). This means that wearing expensive high tier items will give you an edge on fights with about the same number of players on each side (1v1, 2v2, 5v5, etc.), but it will not help you at all in situations where players get outnumbered. And that is the problem and what makes wearing expensive gear not worth it.

      Albion is mainly an open world game, and outnumbered combat happen all the time (mostly there is no combat, just the group with less players trying to run away from the group with more players), which leads to expensive high tier gear being useless most of the time in the open world.


      My opinion now.
      I don't think a pair of T4 scrubs should have much of a fighting chance against a T8 player. Throwing in some more numbers, I think a T8 player should be able to defend himself in a fair battle against 3 or maybe even 4 T4 players, or 2 or 3 T6 players and so on. With these numbers, if a group of 2 players decide to go out on the world to do whatever they want with a T8 set, they should be able to defend themselves from a stupid 5-man T4 ganking squad.

      On the other hand, on a fight with fair player numbers (1v1, 2v2, 5v5, etc), players wearing T4 should have a fightning chance against players with T5, but, of course, the fight should be favored to the T5 side. So we can't exaggerate on the IP scaling. I believe a good value for IP scaling would be around 2x what we have now. (200 IP between tiers instead of 100).


      This would encourage people to bring either better items for the open world content (and also instanced content), which should be food for the game, or simply bring more people to it.

      So yeah, I agree with the overall idea that IP does not scale enough with tiers.

      I also like your idea of spec scaling with tiers. One of the reasons T4s are so effective right now, is because there are a lot of veteran players using them with 400/400 spec.

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Falk_ ().

    • Falk_ wrote:

      I don't think a pair of T4 scrubs should have much of a fighting chance against a T8 player.
      They don't. Two T4 scrubs will get beat every time. There are plenty of videos of people in less than T8 beating more then 2 other players solo. Do I need to start linking them? Here's my personal favorite:



      I suspect what y'all are upset about is being beat by better players despite having more expensive gear.
    • I sort of understand where OP is coming from.

      I was ganked yesterday 2v1. They were wearing nearly the same gear as me (bloodletter, hunter jacket, etc). Except they had t4.1, and I had t6.2

      My attacks did barely any damage to the one I was targeting, yet they melted me in just a few attacks.

      I'm assuming its because I'm only 40 spec in bloodletter and leather armor, whereas they were likely 100 spec.

      I feel like I should've had at least a fighting chance in T6.2 vs T4.1, but I was melted in <5 seconds.

      Yes, it was 2v1, but still. It gave me the impression, mid-level ganking revolves around T4.1 gear and 100 spec mastery.

      This makes it very confusing to know who you can fight. If I see a guy in T8, I know I'm going to get destroyed in my T6. If I see a guy in T4.1, now I have to think, "my T6 should beat him, but he's probably 100 spec". So I'm probably going to get destroyed just the same.

      So overall its a bit of a confusing system, that lends itself to focusing on cheap gear and mastery. I'm not sure the point of T8 gear now, except for GvG or other activity that calls for it.

      It reminds me of "sleeper" cars in drag racing, when people show up in total rust-buckets that have like 1200hp under the hood.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by aktillum88 ().

    • For a long time I've felt as though the ip differences were weak. It's nearly pointless to bring out t8 anymore when a group of 2-3 t4 claws can lock you down and kill you. I often get the response "just wear gear that counters claws", which I think is a silly statement. Having to adjust a t8 build to take on t4 players seems so... silly.

      It's hard to justify even using t7/t8 these days. When I dungeon dive, more often then not, i'm running into groups with players in 4.1 doing t6 random dungeons. Diving is kind of losing it's edge, and the rift of risks vs. reward in bringing out that better set is becoming greater. Gank groups riding mounts that are worth more than 6x their armor and weapon just seems so off. I think the ip gap should be greater, and I think that stats should vary much more between tiers in general. The faction capes, and the bloodletter W's were a step in the right direction. Shorter cooldowns based off ip. I just hope that dmg/armor/magic resist will scale more in the future.

      Its also probably important for me to state, that i'm 375/400 spec in my set, not just mastery lol...

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jwhite179 ().

    • Qolkkalom wrote:

      some ppl win in 4.1 against 2 ppl in T6 (in 1v2 scenario) you know... Git gut, items =/= skill (im not claiming that im gut xD)

      I totally agree, and that was part of my point. Sorry if I did not elaborate further.

      In my post, I said I thought I'd at least have a fighting chance in T6.2 gear against 2 guys in T4.1. I didn't expect to kill them, but I didn't expect to drop so fast. Their 100 spec mastery made such a huge difference. That's what we're talking about. Gear =/= skill, but mastery seems to make a big difference.

      Like I said, I was melted in <5 seconds by 2 guys with T4.1 claws, and I did barely any damage to one of them with a T6.2 bloodletter.

      As @jrwhite179 mentions, its hard to see the benefit of T7/T8 gear. Except for ZvZ / GvG where you're trying to squeeze out every IP you can get.

      Of course, I could grind to 100 spec also. And I will! But it's still such a strange mechanic.

      The devs once said they didn't want more vanity gear, because they wanted people to "know what build you have". But now I have to assume every guy with T4.1 gear is a murder machine. Which makes T7/T8 seem pointless.

      So this thread isn't about "git gud". Its about how 100 spec makes T4.1 way too viable against T7/T8, which is a very strange concept. Maybe the devs are trying to be unique, there are too many games where you grind for the best gear. I very quickly got sick of grinding for epic purples in WoW, or grinding for the latest uber gear in Diablo 3. I appreciate Albion Online is not one of those games. But what we have just feels a little strange.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by aktillum88 ().

    • I agree, 2x 4.1 claws with 100 spec should be stronger than 0 spec but the fact that it can melt people in 6.2 is insane. Atm i see no actuall reason apart from flexing to buy gear higer than 6.1. The cost of higher tier items is insane. But i fought in t7 against 2 people (one healer) who were runing t6-6.3 and i won because i had 100 spec.

      Spec is a nice way to show that you played with your weapon a lot but it isn't the only thing that decides the battle. 4.1 with 100spec atm is very strong, and it should be becouse of the grind for that 100 spec. I agree IP should become a lil more balanced but the spec thing is working good for me. You do not alwas need 100 spec thou, you can do alot of damage in 50-80 spec, and to get that its not a long grind as it used to be
    • Overcharging is very relevant to this, it's cheaper to overcharge your crappy gear, and you won't give as much satisfaction to your enemy if you die. I always hated games where someone with super equipment 1v20 easily, the tactical combat of AO is much better than instant burst. Fights should be about who manages their cooldowns better, and use their skills at the right time, not who 100-0 the other first.
    • MagusClarus wrote:

      (...). Fights should be about who manages their cooldowns better, and use their skills at the right time, not who 100-0 the other first.
      100% true, but on that time, when the idea of spec born, there was not books of fame. With that if someone had finally this 100 in spec (100/400) then You could freely asume that person know what he is doing.

      GuardianGreg wrote:

      I agree, 2x 4.1 claws with 100 spec should be stronger than 0 spec but the fact that it can melt people in 6.2 is insane. Atm i see no actuall reason apart from flexing to buy gear higer than 6.1. The cost of higher tier items is insane. But i fought in t7 against 2 people (one healer) who were runing t6-6.3 and i won because i had 100 spec.

      Spec is a nice way to show that you played with your weapon a lot but it isn't the only thing that decides the battle. 4.1 with 100spec atm is very strong, and it should be becouse of the grind for that 100 spec. I agree IP should become a lil more balanced but the spec thing is working good for me. You do not alwas need 100 spec thou, you can do alot of damage in 50-80 spec, and to get that its not a long grind as it used to be
      It is desigb of claw. If you could have eg soldier helmet, thier only burst potental could be "impotented" with that. Claws are good if u dont have deffensive abilitys.
      Usually claws before skill e poison you with potion and mage head. Currently if you had eg hunter head, that wouldbe ibstant death for them
    • What's suggested in this OP is not good at all and beststrike clearly didn't thought of 90% of situations where this would be broken.
      However I do agree with the fact that there is an issue, and i'm myself trying to find some solutions about it.
      Here are a few elements:
      - scaling is already less than 100IP per tier in higher tiers( 6.1+).
      - T4 is really strong because of all the low cost modifiers added to it:
      -- overcharge (+100ip)
      -- specs (+300ip)
      -- consumables

      Add to that the strength of some weapons (such as claws), the strength of numbers:
      It isn't worth to use T6+ in the openworld.

      Taking 1v2s with T8 gear vs T4 is possible but it's really hard most of the time.
      When you go to any portal at the moment, you can see 10 gankers in T4 flat / 4.1 just waiting without risk for some easy targets.

      I wouldn't mind if they actually had a risk comparable to the reward given, but right now it's just not possible to go through this doors if these people are holding it, and their risk is less than 30k silver (aka 1 gank is paying their gear).

      My suggestions about such things were:
      - give back +100IP per tier
      - reduce the strength of specs by 100IP (200IP max specs).
      To that i'll add what I noticed here & in other threads
      - remove overcharge
      - possible scaling of specs according to gear (but lower than what was originally suggested).
    • Gugusteh wrote:

      I wouldn't mind if they actually had a risk comparable to the reward given, but right now it's just not possible to go through this doors if these people are holding it, and their risk is less than 30k silver (aka 1 gank is paying their gear).
      Maybe if some large group of organized players were to maybe send 10-20 of their lads to break up these gate camping crews. Do you possibly know of any large groups of well organized players who could possibly start earning their keep?

      I like all your ideas except reducing the strength of specs. They added so much catchup in the form of diminishing IP at higher tiers and overcharge, that I feel like if you handle that stuff the IP from skill spec gets a lot more reasonable.

      Cutting back on the few rewards there are for skill progression in AO just feels like a terrible idea. AO already has the least dopamine reinforced progression of any game I have ever played.

      It's hard for me to even get a little excited earning even the final level of a skill, let alone any of the 99 before it. The marginal improvement theme has been pushed so hard in the skill tree that the daily improvements never feel like much, and the milestones don't really give you much more than the normal levels. Making the end state 50% less powerful, will not help matters.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Piddle wrote:

      Maybe if some large group of organized players were to maybe send 10-20 of their lads to break up these gate camping crews. Do you possibly know of any large groups of well organized players who could possibly start earning their keep?
      I like all your ideas except reducing the strength of specs. They added so much catchup in the form of diminishing IP at higher tiers and overcharge, that I feel like if you handle that stuff the IP from skill spec gets a lot more reasonable.

      Cutting back on the few rewards there are for skill progression in AO just feels like a terrible idea. AO already has the least dopamine reinforced progression of any game I have ever played.

      It's hard for me to even get a little excited earning even the final level of a skill, let alone any of the 99 before it. The marginal improvement theme has been pushed so hard in the skill tree that the daily improvements never feel like much, and the milestones don't really give you much more than the normal levels. Making the end state 50% less powerful, will not help matters.
      When I meet this guys with a group they die or run. It's not even worth to dismount for them if you're in a group though and doing so only clears the map for 3 min (time for them to regear).

      Anyway, you have a fair point about the specs progression, but i feel like it is a lot of "weak" threshholds and put together they are too strong. Maybe the issue is more on the way it's done, and having milestones of "IP unlocking" could be interesting? (say you unlock 1 IP per spec but +10 at 10specs + 20 at 30specs + 30 at 60specs + 40 at 100specs)