Flagging for PvP and Stealth Abilities?

    • Fusionbomb wrote:

      (I've never had a widescreen monitor... maybe the cause of 2 deaths in my 1.5 yrs of playing.)
      Well it's apparently been the cause of 5 of my deaths in the last 24 hours lol.

      I tried gathering in a yellow zone and in the past hour i've gotten about 50 resources so.......

      Guess I just have to suck it up and accept I'm going to die 9/10 times I enter a red zone.
    • Fusionbomb wrote:

      you should probably just join a guild and get comfortable entering/exiting black zones... they are safer than red, if you know how to navigate the zones
      I tried black zones earlier, like I said I was ganked by someone I never saw coming without ever seeing a nameplate from the time i left the portal.

      As for the guild, the only ones i've been invited to are "potato" farms with high taxes and the good ones have requirements I don't meet. I'm a little apprehensive to pay 40% taxes and probably have to give up a % of what I gather as well for a guild that may or may not do anything for me in return.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Deathikus ().

    • Fusionbomb wrote:

      although widescreen monitor does offer a very slight advantage, it is not necessary
      stop devaluing my purchase

      Idk, I’ve only had like 2 times where I was 100% surprised by invis gankers and I can’t say I was being super attentive. If they spot you you spot them, it’s a 2 way street. Potentially they are sitting on a hill and have slightly farther view range to see you or they just spot you earlier and then kinda guess a bit.

      If you’re still having trouble escaping bring an invis pot, when they try to gank you, double dash or what’re you need to gain a bit of distance (to avoid stalker helm or guardian armor revealing you) then pop wanderlust + invis pot. At that point it’s basically luck that they find you
    • owensssss wrote:

      Fusionbomb wrote:

      although widescreen monitor does offer a very slight advantage, it is not necessary
      stop devaluing my purchase
      Idk, I’ve only had like 2 times where I was 100% surprised by invis gankers and I can’t say I was being super attentive. If they spot you you spot them, it’s a 2 way street. Potentially they are sitting on a hill and have slightly farther view range to see you or they just spot you earlier and then kinda guess a bit.

      If you’re still having trouble escaping bring an invis pot, when they try to gank you, double dash or what’re you need to gain a bit of distance (to avoid stalker helm or guardian armor revealing you) then pop wanderlust + invis pot. At that point it’s basically luck that they find you
      I mean I get it, I have no evidence that this is happening and I probably just appear to be a noob QQing but there are guys I just never see coming at all, and I've been doing the red zone stuff for a bit now and this is just a recent thing. My first experience with invis gankers was yesterday, before that it was all people I could see their nameplates from a mile away and get away the vast majority of the time. In those situations when I died I didn't care, because to me it was a fair loss. I saw them coming, didn't react fast enough or got outplayed and I died. What's annoying is sitting there gathering watching specifically for blue or red nameplates, never seeing them, and BAM guy just pops out of no where. Maybe I did missed it, but the only time i've ever missed a name plate was in this situation. I always see them coming, I have pretty good situational awareness thanks to other games and my IRL job. When a nameplate pops up, no matter how brief, i see it.

      I was just curious if it was possible for a guy to randomly appear out of no where with no warning and if that was legit, apparently it is and I just have to learn to accept I'm probably going to die to these people no matter what and to bank sooner and just use T4 gear and a super cheap horse to minimize losses. Them killing me and getting like 50k of items and some materials is better than them getting 300-500k because I thought the more expensive gear (like the 100k armored horse) would give me better odds of surviving. Against invis gankers you pretty much have to get lucky and get away.I'm going to level up my combat masteries a bit and do some invis ganking myself because it's pretty damn OP.

      If I use an invis pot and get hit by an AOE ability it will break stealth right?

      Also I have OBS from when I used to stream high rated wow PvP and Dark Souls invasions so when i do my runs tonight I'll record some videos, and when it happens we can play "spot the nameplate"

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Deathikus ().

    • There are plenty of vids out there of people ganking gatherers this way. Ride around, see a name, immediately back away, stealth, and move in for the kill. The fact is it is simply not possible to have your eyes on the edge of your screen 100%. You are glancing at the mobs, watching you tool work, blinking your eyes, looking at the Red counter and the mini map, checking chat, looking at your weight, looking at your phone. You did any number of hundreds of things and missed the half a second the gankers name was on your screen edge. It is simply that.
    • BrutalusMaximus wrote:

      There are plenty of vids out there of people ganking gatherers this way. Ride around, see a name, immediately back away, stealth, and move in for the kill. The fact is it is simply not possible to have your eyes on the edge of your screen 100%. You are glancing at the mobs, watching you tool work, blinking your eyes, looking at the Red counter and the mini map, checking chat, looking at your weight, looking at your phone. You did any number of hundreds of things and missed the half a second the gankers name was on your screen edge. It is simply that.

      It's actually pretty hard to miss a fairly large nameplate that pops up on the screen, even it's brief and a light tint. If they can see my name just that quick then it's fair to assume I can see theirs as well. When I'm in a red zone I'm 100% alert. When I see a red nameplate I escape the vast majority of the time because I don't goof off looking at my phone or checking my bags, my eyes are center screen paying attention to everything. Something I learned in years of playing wow and COD: you don't need your eyes on one part of the screen, in fact it's better to focus on the center and detect any movement on the screen as this gives you the highest level of situational awareness. In PvP I knew what my CDs were without every looking down at my bars, I could see the mage casting polly without having to be specifically looking at him, i could see people who just pop up on the screen. For example I don't need to look directly at the mini map to see the skulls pop up, I can see it out of my periphery. That is a skill I have developed in years upon years of gaming. Is it possible a blue is passing me, turning pvp on, and ganking? Of course. It's become apparent I'm going to die a metric ton in this game as a gatherer so I might try gearing up a bit and gathering in meta gear so i can just kill them. Losing out on a few hides is better than losing out on a ton of hides and everything i have equipped.

      You saying that in the split second it would take someone to attack a mob or look at the map they saw them and backed off. That's a pretty insane reaction time, but as I said if you believe they can do it what makes you believe that others can not? The higher resolution thing, meaning they can see me before i can ever see them, makes sense and it's not something I was aware of. This means they can see my nameplate before theirs pops up on my screen. Do I personally agree with that or think that's fair? No, but it is what it is and I just have to accept that some people (probably very few to be fair) have an unfair advantage. The only thing I could do in that situation is buy a higher res monitor which isn't worth it to me.
    • Deathikus wrote:

      The higher resolution thing, meaning they can see me before i can ever see them, makes sense and it's not something I was aware of. This means they can see my nameplate before theirs pops up on my screen. Do I personally agree with that or think that's fair? No,
      this actually has not been proven.

      The off-screen nameplates setting allows both people with wide screen and normal screen see each other pretty much at the same time... there might be a 1 sec difference - but if you're riding a hrse going 100% speed (gallop) you wont react in time anyway to "hide".

      The only way these "invis" players can get you is if they see you first as blue - then "guess" which way you're going and come back after flagging off screen and using specter boots. Its actually very hard to do consistently (unless you're camping one of those "rich resource zones" - where there are always gatherers present).

      Here is a video from ganker POV (but I'd like to see it from your side as well, because your story does not add up):



      EDIT: Cairn Glascore is one of the few zones to do this in - as you can be on top of the mountain and use terrain to see gatherers below, while they dont see you

      EDIT2:

      Also note on this SS (0:54 in the video above) the ganker is already red (probably just flagged and the game takes about 30sec-1min to show that red on map, so victim still sees 0 reds), goes invis right at the veeeerrrrrry edge of the screen, where he can see the victim (which means the gatherer could also have seen the ganker - but did not due to lack of attention):



      EDIT3: you can see what gear the ganker uses from the video as well...

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Captainrussia ().

    • Deathikus wrote:

      I'm a bit confused about something that has happened to me several times now gathering in red zones. One second the icon shows zero PvPers in the area and no nameplates never show up on the edge of my screen alerting me to the presence of another player the next second a guy is popping out of stealth, instantly killing my armored horse???, and then either stun locking or dagger dash chasing me to death. This has happened to me at least 5-6 times since I started gathering in red zones and I have no idea how they can know I'm there when no nameplates ever show up, turn invisible, flag themselves while invisible so it doesn't show there's a pvper in the area, then proceed to walk up to me and one shot my horse without me ever having a clue they are there.

      Should I give up gathering and just become a ganker and kill other gatherers? Considering you can do what I just listed above, I mean it's free loot basically because it's basically impossible to escape once they one shot your horse before you can even mount it. Is there even a counter to this?

      Hey man. Yes, I sugest you quit gathering and start ganking.

      That way you will learn how hard it is to gank.

      You will also learn the weakness to these gankers, and by knowing how ganking works you will then be able to resume gathering without any problems.
    • good here translated:I'll tell them the equipment that I use to collect skins in BZ, I hope it helps them, furrier hood (with the ability to block, I can barely see that they are thrown at me I use to block the first massive damage combo they throw at me) , chest of a furrier (poison if it is relatively calm all and wall of wind if I see that there is a lot of movement, whether they are gankers or not), soldier boots (with the ability of traveling spirit, I barely escape the stun, it is enough to escape and get away enough, reassemble and you're saved), in my short bow, to escape I use the arrow of frost, which slows it down and pulls me away, plus it has a short cooldown, and finally, I always carry one or 2 potions of overload, in case I see them difficult, hopefully it will be useful, but basically you have to design a team that is good to escape and you can do your job well.
    • Azu_Raged wrote:

      its cuz when ur stealth it dont show him as aggressive - he sees you maybe u dont see him, but he see you from off screen name plates probably then uses specter shoes sneaks ups on ur an punishes ur bumhole
      I was lucky and didn't get ganked by a single invis user yesterday so i escaped several ganks. I died to two 5 man groups ganking and had a couple of deaths trying to naked run through a black zone area to get to a new warp gate but I've found a spot that's pretty safe and pretty loaded on resources (although I just learned that mob locations in black zones reset every day). As long as I don't run into these guys I'm happy because I've been dodging gankers left and right out here on the rare occasion i see them this far out from the warp gate. I ended up filling an ox with all my stuff and moving to caerleon where I guess I'm just going to farm that black zone area now considering i gathered about 2k hide in a few hours out there with my t5 set and a pork pie. Guess there will be good days and bad days, last time i went out there I was invis ganked within like 5 minutes but my one trip yesterday basically payed for every death I've ever gotten.

      Now for the grind to 100/100 t5 skinning mastery. :( I'm at like 30ish
    • Well, before the FTP change I could gather happily in black zones - died maybe a handful of times. But in the last few days I have died more and more often. It is not that the gankers are better - it is just that there are so many it is almost impossible to get away from them. Every portal has half a dozen hanging around, every zone entry and exit seems to be camped. I can normally get around them, but it might take a few tries. So getting to a T7 zone takes a while.

      But once there I get found nearly every time. Gathering is noisy and means you have to look away occasionally. The invisibles have got me a few times, twice I have been disconnected just as a ganker appeared and several times I have been ambushed while trying to escape one ganker/group by another ganker/group near the exits.

      Economically it makes no sense now for me to go black - I have brought out one smallish load of basalt in three days, and died at least 8 times. I hate to say it, but the explosion in numbers means the BZs are too small to hide. Before I could make a decent profit but now even if I go naked I still lose a mount and gathering equipment for nothing. I have millions of silver and about 20k gold so the monetary loss is nothing, but my time is limited and I don't like working for 45 mins to get a decent load and then losing it every time to some loser who can drop a mount in few blows.

      So it is back to red for me until the numbers of gankers drops. I can make more money crafting T4-T6 stuff.

      PS Please do not call gankers PvP: killing a mount so you can then pick off a defenceless gatherer is not PvP. PvP is where you test your skill against another player. Ganking is just hiding and jumping players to rob them. It is not hard - from the level of posts on global I would say a 12 year old could do it pretty easily. As for those who need 5:1 to kill a gatherer! What skill! What bravery! What tossers!

      Yes, I could put on my best gear and kill some solo gankers, but there is no way I can take on more than 2:1. And I don't want to join a guild.

      The devs claim to want solo players, but they don't seem to do much to encourage them. Everything is geared to forcing everyone to play the same way, which is horribly boring,

      TBH, I have started to think longingly of the days of EQ1, when you could play as you wished, and though the penalties for dying were huge, you could successfully play solo if you were smart and careful. Currently the odds in AO are just too high against the solo player who does not want to spend all their time hanging around waiting to kill an unsuspecting gatherer.
    • Uriah wrote:

      Well, before the FTP change I could gather happily in black zones - died maybe a handful of times. But in the last few days I have died more and more often. It is not that the gankers are better - it is just that there are so many it is almost impossible to get away from them. Every portal has half a dozen hanging around, every zone entry and exit seems to be camped. I can normally get around them, but it might take a few tries. So getting to a T7 zone takes a while.

      But once there I get found nearly every time. Gathering is noisy and means you have to look away occasionally. The invisibles have got me a few times, twice I have been disconnected just as a ganker appeared and several times I have been ambushed while trying to escape one ganker/group by another ganker/group near the exits.

      Economically it makes no sense now for me to go black - I have brought out one smallish load of basalt in three days, and died at least 8 times. I hate to say it, but the explosion in numbers means the BZs are too small to hide. Before I could make a decent profit but now even if I go naked I still lose a mount and gathering equipment for nothing. I have millions of silver and about 20k gold so the monetary loss is nothing, but my time is limited and I don't like working for 45 mins to get a decent load and then losing it every time to some loser who can drop a mount in few blows.

      So it is back to red for me until the numbers of gankers drops. I can make more money crafting T4-T6 stuff.

      PS Please do not call gankers PvP: killing a mount so you can then pick off a defenceless gatherer is not PvP. PvP is where you test your skill against another player. Ganking is just hiding and jumping players to rob them. It is not hard - from the level of posts on global I would say a 12 year old could do it pretty easily. As for those who need 5:1 to kill a gatherer! What skill! What bravery! What tossers!

      Yes, I could put on my best gear and kill some solo gankers, but there is no way I can take on more than 2:1. And I don't want to join a guild.

      The devs claim to want solo players, but they don't seem to do much to encourage them. Everything is geared to forcing everyone to play the same way, which is horribly boring,

      TBH, I have started to think longingly of the days of EQ1, when you could play as you wished, and though the penalties for dying were huge, you could successfully play solo if you were smart and careful. Currently the odds in AO are just too high against the solo player who does not want to spend all their time hanging around waiting to kill an unsuspecting gatherer.
      Perhaps it's the area I've chosen but honestly there aren't many people around, by the warp gate itself sure but the run from the gate to the exit and vice versa is within the bubble limit so ganking me in that first tile is not really possible unless there's a camp of players right at the exit (which I've seen once so far) and they CC me to death.What I did was just buy cheap T3 mounts and naked explore a bunch of areas to see which tiles had the least players. Ever since I went to this new zone I've encountered zero invis gankers and very few gankers in general but that could change at any time and as far as other gankers unless they're a group they can't kill me because my reaction time is too fast. By the time they even get in auto attack range I'm mounted and gone because as soon as i see a nameplate I mount and run away. I always position my horse directly near what I'm gathering so i can instantly mount and avoid the roads at all costs. Perhaps you should try a new BZ area, the first area I tried was insanely crowded and a guild was running around killing everything for like 3-4 tiles of area. I waited a bit and chose a new gate and it's been fairly quiet other than the occasional group gankers which tend to stick to the warpgate tile and don't really venture too far from it.. I've learned if you get about 2-3 tiles away from the gate you're chances of encountering a ganker are pretty low. In the 2-3 hours I farmed without dying I made close to 4m and my risk with all my gear and my knife was only 120k that seems pretty worth it to me especially when the red zone i was farming netted me like 150 hides an HOUR which is like ~100k with the same risk. Also if you're in the US after like 9pm the game isn't that populated since I guess most of the players are EU and it's like 3am for them.

      I live by the motto "don't get greedy" the longer you stay out there the more you risk in terms of profit. When I hit around 100 gathered resources I bank to be safe. Considering most nodes I encounter are full 5/5 and I basically get 3 per tick thanks to pork pie that's like 7 mobs as opposed to like 50 mobs in red zones which are almost always 1/5 as people farm them on respawn.

      I'm sure i'll get invis ganked with no nameplate ever shown again and get irritated.... again... that's really my only complaint so far. I think it's pretty BS a dude can just appear with no warning with a bloodletter and basically never fail to kill you because there's no escaping that and it's better to just fight them. As far as ganking not being PvP they run an equal risk of getting killed out there by a bigger/better group and I would venture to say they're risking a lot more worth in items as I doubt they're running around in t4 or t5 flat gear. It's just how the game is designed and the only thing that bothers me is the ability for some people to gank you without ever being seen but this has happened to me WAY more in red zones for whatever reason people want to give it. Good situational awareness has saved me a lot out there so far, I really suggest learning the center screen focus thing I was talking about earlier and training your periphery, for me this came from a metric ton of WoW PvP and COD but being able to react as soon as you see a nameplate in any direction will save you against non-invis gankers pretty much every time. I'm also not in a guild and I do just fine, wouldn't mind joining one with some territory though, my complaint with the guild system overall is as a "new player" pretty much you can join a potato farm guild (meaning they just want your taxed silver) or some random guild with a bunch of new players. The requirements to join most real guilds seem pretty steep but I guess that's too be expected when you own a lot of territories or have a strong zvz/gvg presence.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Deathikus ().

    • Uriah wrote:

      Well, before the FTP change I could gather happily in black zones - died maybe a handful of times. But in the last few days I have died more and more often. It is not that the gankers are better - it is just that there are so many it is almost impossible to get away from them. Every portal has half a dozen hanging around, every zone entry and exit seems to be camped. I can normally get around them, but it might take a few tries. So getting to a T7 zone takes a while.

      But once there I get found nearly every time. Gathering is noisy and means you have to look away occasionally. The invisibles have got me a few times, twice I have been disconnected just as a ganker appeared and several times I have been ambushed while trying to escape one ganker/group by another ganker/group near the exits.

      Economically it makes no sense now for me to go black - I have brought out one smallish load of basalt in three days, and died at least 8 times. I hate to say it, but the explosion in numbers means the BZs are too small to hide. Before I could make a decent profit but now even if I go naked I still lose a mount and gathering equipment for nothing. I have millions of silver and about 20k gold so the monetary loss is nothing, but my time is limited and I don't like working for 45 mins to get a decent load and then losing it every time to some loser who can drop a mount in few blows.

      So it is back to red for me until the numbers of gankers drops. I can make more money crafting T4-T6 stuff.

      PS Please do not call gankers PvP: killing a mount so you can then pick off a defenceless gatherer is not PvP. PvP is where you test your skill against another player. Ganking is just hiding and jumping players to rob them. It is not hard - from the level of posts on global I would say a 12 year old could do it pretty easily. As for those who need 5:1 to kill a gatherer! What skill! What bravery! What tossers!

      Yes, I could put on my best gear and kill some solo gankers, but there is no way I can take on more than 2:1. And I don't want to join a guild.

      The devs claim to want solo players, but they don't seem to do much to encourage them. Everything is geared to forcing everyone to play the same way, which is horribly boring,

      TBH, I have started to think longingly of the days of EQ1, when you could play as you wished, and though the penalties for dying were huge, you could successfully play solo if you were smart and careful. Currently the odds in AO are just too high against the solo player who does not want to spend all their time hanging around waiting to kill an unsuspecting gatherer.
      It's not a question of bravery or skill. It's a question of abilities. If a single double-staff or claw user is able to kill your mount AND hunt you down, you've failed miserably as a gatherer and just don't know what the hell you're doing.

      Fact of the matter is that if you're a gatherer, you should easily be able to get unmounted and still escape from one or two gankers. More than that and it all boils down to them knowing what they are doing. But the gatherers definitely have a set of abilities that give them a solid chance to escape a gank, more so than in many other games. The issue is three fold:
      -A lot of gatherers are just plain bad, having dodged PvP at every opportunity and having never bothered to learn what abilities do what. They get ganked and just panic-click all of their stuff.
      -A lot of gatherers seem to think they are *entitled* to gathering. Just read this thread above, where the casually says "I was done with t5, so I moved to t6 zones" or "I used an ox". Fact of the matter is: they're not and ganking is a part of the economy. It helps maintain prices at a certain level. There's plenty of successful gatherers in the blackzones. They've just learned and adapted.
      -There currently is a lot of people camping the portal gates. There's ways to bypass that but charging through the zone on your ox hoping no one sees you isn't one of them.
    • OP look at it this way... Ure gathering and look all the way around, gankers just need to look ahead, he have some much more chance that You will look on other spot on screen, then he will see ur nameplate for ~0.1s(numlock + instant move mouse otherway), go back, flag go into stealth move closer to You, double dash and hit with e (he will be visible during that jump, but You will have no time to mount up).