[Resolved] Gold Market Issue

  • I kinda agree with the rest.. A rollback would probably be the best solution to this chaos, even if it takes a whole day to fix.

    People that abused the system are constantly "laundering money" by buying items such as tomes, etc and affecting the market prices.

    This is pretty severe imho.

    Aside from that, those that bought gold literally worth nothing, is at some point taking advantage over other players who weren't able to get on during the time the gold prices tanked, etc. That's literally years of prem time bought for dirty cheap..

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Immel ().

  • Ask yourself; are you really going to play in a game where from this point forward you will be disadvantaged in a player driven economy because you didn't benefit from this exploit?

    People are going to walk away with value derived from today's exploit, even if its changed forms from the raw gold initially obtained they've benefited EXTREMELY and there's no way a legit player can bridge that gap. You can reassure us that every transaction and all the gold will be reviewed and clawed back but come on I don't think your player base is that stupid. Such an undertaking would cripple your staff its just not feasible. Bite the bullet bring it down before prime-time, compensate the players and move on.
  • Evoque wrote:

    ...

    2. Accounts that bought lots of gold cheaply as a result of the gold exploit will not be suspended. However, we'll be treating this one a case by cases basis and go through the transaction logs and reverse these transactions.
    If you benefited from the artificially low gold prices, do not sell or use that gold such that the claw back goes smoothly - otherwise, and we will have to suspend the accounts in question. Note that even If the gold is used / sold, we'll still be able to claw it back.

    ...
    Please don't insult any of our intelligence with this blatant lie. I certainly will not insult yours by beleiving that you actually think you can pull this off.

    I could go on about how you misshandles the game's economy time and time again, or how i have deja-vu from the time of the journal exploit, or be another one who explains why a reroll is needed.
    But I know you won't be rerolling now, so the least you could do is provide some much needed transparency instead of stating you will just "claw back everything".

    1.) How much gold got generated out of thin air?
    2.) How much could you actually delete?
    3.) And most importantly: How will the rest of the generated gold be handled in the "clawing back" phase? Will you just delete a huge amount of gold from the market, or buy it back with silver? You keep the servers running with the money from bought gold, so I'm pretty sure that you won't just take that loss. The value of 10m gold is about 50k usd, and I'm pretty sure that much more was generated than that measly 10m.
  • Hey there!

    So far, the examples of items that have been brought up (Tomes and crystal rhinos) are a really bad indicator for the current market situation. To be perfectly clear: I'm talking only about Caerleon prices right now!
    1. Tome prices have gone back to the normal price point of a few hours ago
    2. It's very likely to see more players buy tomes in general after opening the game to that many players + giving every existing player at least 1k free gold to spend. So in theory it could be entirely natural.
    3. For crystal rhinos we're seeing ONE singular transaction after the game went live today. You cannot make any statement about the price if the amount you're looking at is one sale.

    If we saw a big inflation for example in resource prices or other crafting materials - then it could be a sign of a flawed economy. So far, we don't see that anywhere. If you feel like we should take a look at a specific item, please drop me a private message with the item name and the market.
    You can also take a look at the gold market. You will see that the price is almost back to the original value.
    Again, as was stated - We've temporarily banned all players involved in this and are taking measures to clean up what we can right now. Looking at all the data we have, we don't see anything super harmful right now even though it may feel different to you as a player.
    Once again, sorry for the inconvenience.

    - Lino
  • muffler wrote:

    If you take a step back and even think about their proposed solution it just falls apart. How many GM's do they actively employ? Think of the time it would take to investigate a flagged account and review every transaction made by that player and if it was done with this exploited gold. What about the people they bought items from with it, are they innocent now? You've stated in this post your real-time action has minimized damage to the economy but you if look at the prices of items and the inflation that has occurred over the last several hours we know that to be incorrect.

    What your playing with right now is the confidence of your player base that you're on top of this and can provide a solution. A rollback before prime-time would go a long way to restore this otherwise I just don't believe its logistically possible for you to find and eliminate all this gold, too many accounts took part in such a widespread bug and the economy damage is readily apparent.
    You are playing computer games, right? What do you think computer is?
    I'll explain. Computer is one big calculator. Developers are not that foolish to employ GM's to check every single transaction. They will write (unless they've already written) program that will check every gold buy order transaction with using data delivered by logs. Algorithm can fix that and if this make hurt exploiters there will be nothing bad at all.

    BRiCK wrote:

    You're the reason games are shit nowadays
  • Hi all,

    here is some more background information on this to put things into perspective:

    The total amount of fake gold created by the exploit as been very small.

    It was around 3 days worth of the gold that would be injected by starter pack sales (excluding gold packs) prior to the F2P. The vast vast majority of this has already been frozen by us. The net impact of the exploit will hence equal a few hours equal of gold supply at most.

    The number of accounts involved directly in the exploit is also quite small. That includes those accounts who indirectly benefited by buying gold at a low silver price.

    This is why we felt that we can handle this quite well without a roll back in the first place. Had there been any sort of significant economic damage, we would have done a roll back.

    Now with regards to the price spikes in individual items:
    Keep in mind that each pre-existing game pack generated an extra 1.000 gold as part of the F2P-launch rewards. The amount of gold generated by this absolutely dwarfs what has been generated by the gold exploit (and makes it practically insignificant when taking into account that most of it is frozen). Hence, there is a high chance that item spikes are not directly related to the gold exploit.

    If, during the investigation, we found that people somehow maliciously thought they could hide ill-gotten currency through items, we will take care of this. Keep in mind that we have quite a lot of experience in dealing with illicit game currency due to having to deal with lots of RMT shortly after release.
  • H4n1baL wrote:

    Hey there!

    So far, the examples of items that have been brought up (Tomes and crystal rhinos) are a really bad indicator for the current market situation. To be perfectly clear: I'm talking only about Caerleon prices right now!
    1. Tome prices have gone back to the normal price point of a few hours ago
    2. It's very likely to see more players buy tomes in general after opening the game to that many players + giving every existing player at least 1k free gold to spend. So in theory it could be entirely natural.
    3. For crystal rhinos we're seeing ONE singular transaction after the game went live today. You cannot make any statement about the price if the amount you're looking at is one sale.

    If we saw a big inflation for example in resource prices or other crafting materials - then it could be a sign of a flawed economy. So far, we don't see that anywhere. If you feel like we should take a look at a specific item, please drop me a private message with the item name and the market.
    You can also take a look at the gold market. You will see that the price is almost back to the original value.
    Again, as was stated - We've temporarily banned all players involved in this and are taking measures to clean up what we can right now. Looking at all the data we have, we don't see anything super harmful right now even though it may feel different to you as a player.
    Once again, sorry for the inconvenience.

    - Lino
    Deleting market history?

    I hope the transactions are being reverted too...because transactions seen on AH history are gone now...

    Potential proof of deleted transaction history, why would so many people post T7 Sticky for sale at the same price point if nothing had sold at that price? Clearly the history has been tampered with.



    The post was edited 2 times, last by Belemrys ().

  • @Belemrys

    No, we're not deleting any history. I don't know what items you're looking at but I'm assuming you're either on a different market or filter or item. As I said before if you feel like we should look at a specific item - please send me a private message with the name and the market.
    Look at the images of the gold market and tome of insight data I attached, you can still see the changes in the graphs but you can also see they have normalized.

    - Lino
    Images
    • goldmarket.PNG

      54.56 kB, 726×191, viewed 245 times
    • tomeofinsight.PNG

      47.87 kB, 613×198, viewed 229 times
  • What about gold bought without having silver?

    What about gold bought at 300 a pop which clearly went this low for aforementioned reasons?

    I heard also of players claiming multiple packs from the same claim from the Founder thingy, I had two to claim, claimed them and got only one, I need to open a ticket, so the fact people are getting multiple doesn't sound too far fetched now...