Solo Fame vs Group Fame Balance Needed

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    • to close this thread I will say:

      I want "solo experience" (to put it into Ilkcen's words). Period.
      I don't want instanced solo content. Its very simple. I want to be able to PVP vs other solo (sometimes duo) players, like I did when Roaming Mobs were actually fun and relevant (I did get ganked by groups from time to time, but it was rare)

      /thread
    • Captainrussia wrote:

      to close this thread I will say:

      I want "solo experience" (to put it into Ilkcen's words). Period.
      I don't want instanced solo content. Its very simple. I want to be able to PVP vs other solo (sometimes duo) players, like I did when Roaming Mobs were actually fun and relevant (I did get ganked by groups from time to time, but it was rare)

      /thread
      First I'm glad that someone at last understands the content of the game and the experience of the player are two different things.

      I think this is what they will make - is to put additional random soloable only maps with fame and drop penalties for the parties. These dungeons will have open world PvP. The negative impact will be bigger - the prices will fall, the new dungeons will be overcrowded, as now the dungeons are made for 4-5 players party. So there will be a need for at least 4-5 more soloable dungeons for equal access. It will become harder to find a party even in the big guilds. There will be a huge demand for more "solo" dungeons. And there will be a need of much easier access to resources, because everything in Albion is made by the players. So if the prices of the resources stay relatively stable, while the prices of the items are falling, the economy of the game will crash. To prevent that the developers should give to the gatherers more resources at safer way, which will affect the ganking.

      So how will you comment this? Because the fair PvP, kind of fair - 1vs1, and also the possibility to play alone whenever you want, sound very appealing. But if everyone could play alone, we may lose the possibility to play in group. It is a very fragile balance.

      I think the 1vs1 or 3vs3, or 5vs5 PvP should be placed in some open world instances (so competitive instances) like the hellgates, or in a world instanced tournament on the PvP arena. Because that kind of structured PvP is controversial to the open world concept. Structured PvP that fits in the open world are sieges, wars and etc.

      Also I have to point even now you can play solo. Yesterday for example I farmed mobs solo in a level 6 black zone open dungeon few hours, and I got good amount of rewards - fame and items.
    • Ikcen - why did you get out of bed this morning?
      You had to stand up and go to work, and on your way to work you could have gotten into a car crash. And that car crash would have cost you all of your money, and you would have lost your job because you where too late. The negative impact of that would drive you into drinking.

      Thats at the same tier as your "analysis" of adding a form of content (that happened before hundreds of times) that gives rewards, probably even lower than before (even if it gives more, look at RD and hellgate buff and how that "crashed" the economy) that is accessible for a solo player/someone that doesnt want to group up right now/is playing when their friends are not online. Going in a group is generally more fun and if you have players to play with you will 90% of the time. Solo content is really important for the time inbetween group content. The time when you left your guild and havnt found anything new. And right now, solo players (temporary solo or permanent solo doesnt matter) are fucked reward and content wise. (outside of gathering and maybe some transporting - everything else is so much more rewarding in groups) - and thats why people ask for it.

      No one asks for solo content that is more rewarding than group content.
      No one asks for rewarding instanced singleplayer content. (atleast in here)
      No crash will happen because of solo dungeons.


      Ikcen wrote:

      So if the prices of the resources stay relatively stable, while the prices of the items are falling, the economy of the game will crash
      And here you prove that you have no idea about the game. Every item dropped is player crafted. Items trash. No one crafts items below the material price (- focus/city return bonus). Even if the gear gets cheaper than the cost - it will even out over time.
      You also show that you have no idea about how rewards are distributed. HGs drop the most gear - RD only a bit. Solo RD would drop even less.
    • Lucifen wrote:


      And here you prove that you have no idea about the game. Every item dropped is player crafted. Items trash. No one crafts items below the material price (- focus/city return bonus). Even if the gear gets cheaper than the cost - it will even out over time.You also show that you have no idea about how rewards are distributed. HGs drop the most gear - RD only a bit. Solo RD would drop even less.
      You are right in a long term. But in a long term you will be dead. Economic crashes are caused by disbalances. Indeed if the prices drop too low, so the items are not profitable, nobody will craft and the prices will rise again. But before that the economy of Albion will crash. Indeed the HGs drop most gear, but that actually does not matter, as all the gear is crafted.

      Remember 2008? The prices of the houses fell. And the economy crashed. Then the prices went up again. It depends very much how these solo dungeons are implemented. Also you are wrong that nobody asks for instanced solo content. Even here you can find many threats about it.

      And you make some false assumptions in fact. Players play for the rewards. If they could take the rewards easily solo, majority of them will not go in group except in special cases.

      Now imagine a situation, when you could play effectively solo and group only with your friends. Sounds good, doesn't it? But that means you and every player could deny to play in party in general. That will be a disaster for the new players, for the "solo" guys, for everyone who is not very social. Be careful what you wish.

      It is amazing that you deny any assumption of negative impact. Everything has pros and cons.
    • You havnt even played this game for half a year but you think you know it all.
      Market crashes all the time. Market recovers all the time. Everything in this game is created with "labor" - or by a player doing a form of content. If they do this content solo or with 50000000 people doesnt matter - as long as the stuff created is proportional.
      If 10 5 man groups farm 5man dungeons or 50 solos farm 50 solo dungeons doesnt matter there as much as you think.

      You predict the market crashing by too much gear being available... that would lead to less being crafted making ressources cheaper leading to more expensive gear and less expensive material cost. BAM crash solved. And if it doesnt solve? Then gear is cheap and people are happy that they can throw away more gear until it evens out again. This is not about illiquide assets like houses in a highly speculative market with capital flight - the only thing close to that are vanity items/rare mounts and maybe masterpiece .3 stuff. Not normal gear.

      You should look at the game design of the ingame economy and how everything is interconnected to dampen crashes and make market manipulation harder.


      Ikcen wrote:

      And you make some false assumptions in fact. Players play for the rewards. If they could take the rewards easily solo, majority of them will not go in group except in special cases.
      And you know that from... where? Players play for satisfaction - if reward gives satisfaction they will look for them. If killing someone before dying gives satisfaction they will do that. If playing with friends gives satisfaction... and so on.
      If the majority of people would "play for the rewards" to the extent you think they would play diablo 3 or PoE or another loot simulator.


      Ikcen wrote:

      Also you are wrong that nobody asks for instanced solo content. Even here you can find many threats about it.
      Instanced solo content is NOT single player content. Like, how many more people do you need to tell you this? The only instanced single player content are solo expeditions and their rewards are trash. Like they should be. The people asking for instance solo content are looking for a place where they dont get 5v1ed but can face other soloes or maybe groups of 2-3. You cant claim solo content means single player and then bring people asking for a FFA dungeon as people asking for solo content.


      Ikcen wrote:

      You are right in a long term. But in a long term you will be dead. Economic crashes are caused by disbalances. Indeed if the prices drop too low, so the items are not profitable, nobody will craft and the prices will rise again. But before that the economy of Albion will crash. Indeed the HGs drop most gear, but that actually does not matter, as all the gear is crafted.
      Long term in the game is days. Buy up everything at one royal city of something and then put everything into a different city cheap. See how fast it balances.
      HGs drop most gear and it actually DOES matter - because what you are scared of is so much gear dropping that the market crashes. Which in itself is ridiculous - because gear only drops if it gets sold to the black market - wich increases the price (and in the drop-sell cycle a ton of it gets trashed/left behind)


      Ikcen wrote:

      It is amazing that you deny any assumption of negative impact. Everything has pros and cons.
      I have a much better grasp on this game, its design and its markets than you. How dare you think you can deny solo players a place to fame/grind/pvp/have fun just so you dont have to be scared about new loot or maybe not finding people to play with anymore. You are the "lets leave minimum wage at 7$ because the burger would cost me 20 cents more if it got adjusted to inflation" type of guy.

      EDIT: If you think it was "the housing market crashed and then the economy crashed" you might wanna read up what actually happened. A good place to start would be here:
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Lucifen ().

    • Lucifen wrote:

      You havnt even played this game for half a year but you think you know it all.
      Let say you are just a noob. I will skip the nonsense about the market. If you want to talk about it start with Hayek and do not stop until you finish Markowitz. In fact as the developers are smarter than you they will improve the access to resources in the game.

      The players play for the rewards, behind that behavior there could be many reasons. Escaping from the reality, addiction, but in the most cases the games are just a way to fulfill the time, and in the case of the MMOs - some social attempt for cooperation and competition. That does not change the fact that the players play for the rewards.

      Again you cannot make the differentiation among content and experience. What people want is not a specific content, they ask for specific experience similar to that they had in previous games. Also you made very bad misinterpretation of my words. Solo means exactly single player, but singleplayer content and single player experience are two very different things.

      It is amazing that noob like you thinks he knows anything about any game. As I pointed and all here agree, you can play solo in Albion now. The question is why some people want more soloable game. Because it is very simple - you ask for easier play and more rewards.

      In general I do not think that improving the solo grind will improve the game. Quite the opposite. The game needs better long term goals for the groups instead. But you cannot even imagine what I'm talking about, as it does not persist in any of the games you have played. This is the difference if someone knows how the games work, instead just have been played some games. I can say how the Albion works even without playing it.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Ikcen ().

    • Stop replying to @Ikcen

      Hes either 1 of 2 things

      1. A troll

      or (sadly this one might be true)

      2. Straight fucking autistic

      He shows 0 proof and has 0 experience playing this game. He has never played or seen the history of what things do in albion (experience). He also doesn't play solo but thinks he still knows all about solo.

      0 point in replying to someone who thinks they know it all and will NEVER change their answer even if proven wrong by LITERALLY everyone on this post.
      I’m toxic
    • Lucifen wrote:

      Ikcen wrote:

      Let say you are just a noob
      Let's say you dont exist. My job here is done.
      The truth hurts. You think you know everything about Albion, but you do not know anything about the games. You cannot make the differentiation between game content and your experience as a player. You cannot explain why some feature works or not. You even cannot point one negative impact from implementing "solo" dungeons. And as everything has pros and cons, that clearly shows you do not understand the game. To know and to understand are two different things.

      Also I do not worry, I play solo, so the new dungeons will be good for me, as a player. But as I understand how the game works in general, I doubt they will be good for Albion as a MMO.