Dagger + Leather Suggestions

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • Dagger + Leather Suggestions

      - Daggers -

      Sunder Armor - Increase the (reduction of a player's armor/magic resist) sunder by two or three points at max spec. So Q's can add more pressure, since there's a lack of aoe in the dagger line. (Or just make Sunder Armor a 3m aoe)

      Swords and Axe's have a 6m cleave/swing to apply their stacks to everyone around them. Daggers don't have this. Why not? Why not rename Sunder Armor to Sunder Strike, and add in another Q for the dagger line called "Sunder Cleave" "Sunder Swing" "Sunder Slash" 'Sunder anything'?

      Right now Swords and Axes have this. Daggers don't. If you increased the Sunder Armor sunder against individual players by a tick or two, rename it to Sunder Strike, and then had the current Sunder Armor spell's sundering kept as is (with less damage dealt) in a 3m radius it could vastly improve the dagger line. And give it more aoe pressure and effectiveness. The single target choice would still be there with Sunder Armor/Sunder Strike.

      Infiltration - You set a target destination and then 1s later you appear there and a bomb goes off putting enemies to sleep, unless they take damage. This could be changed from being a sleep to a stun where taking damage doesn't matter. Or it could be kept as a sleep and have the damage the bomb deals increase. Right now the bomb damage is under 100. The damage the bomb deals could be increased to something meaningful like 400.

      Chain Slash - Increase the damage by 20% (to make up for the increased hp pools now) so it's a more meaningful aoe ability that applies pressure. Or make it so the second, third, and fourth person hit it does more damage to. 10% more to the second hit, 15% more to the third hit, 20% more to the fourth hit. So 1v1 it still does the same damage, but in group fights it'll do more.

      Any of the above could be interesting to see if they impact daggers getting increased play outside of ganking.

      Lunging Stabs / Bloodletter E - The latest Balance notes say:


      "Daggers:
      • Rapier Stabs (Bloodletter)
        • Cooldown: 20s -> 30s
        • Hitting an enemy below 40% now also reduces all your cooldowns by 5s"


      Please do not do this. :( With daggers being as invisible as they are in 5v5 content, increasing Bloodletter's main selling point's cooldown by 50% is the last thing I'd personally ever want to see for daggers.

      Please do not nerf the bloodletter by increasing it's E's cooldown by 50%... please @Retroman This cripples gatherers and buffs gankers against them, gankers who don't need buffs. 10 man gank squads vs. 2 gatherers isn't going to end in a 10v2. It ends in a chase. Two gatherers are not going to fight one of ten people down to 40% to get a 5s cooldown buff to more quickly double dash away. They're going to want to dash and lunge away as they always have. Meanwhile, the 10 man gank squad can get a gatherer down to 40% and stab through them very easily to get this cooldown reduction of 5s and get to the next gatherer. In that specific scenario this hurts gatherers and helps gankers, or it takes the weapon out of being used over other options. This is a massive, crippling cooldown increase. Again, please do not do this. Increasing the cooldown on this spell by 10s seems insane to me. When you look outside of the gatherer/ganker dynamic, it's also a massive nerf to gankers. It's a nerf to everything. 10s is eons.

      Are you going to increase the cooldown of Reckless Charge on Spears from 20s to 30s? Are you going to increase the cooldown of Dual Swords' Spinning Blades from 20s to 30s? They both travel 13m as well.

      The fact that a Bloodletter needs the enemy to be below 40% to get it's damage off and neither of the above two do is an important factor to consider on why it shouldn't have 10s added to its cooldown. Since bloodletter needs the enemy below 40% to get off its main damage, increasing the cooldown doesn't make sense to put it in line with a weapon like Bear Paw's Razor Cut's cooldown, when Razor Cut can get it's damage off without needing the enemy to be below 40%, and it can do so in a much wider radius, and with true damage bleeds. Without stacks or other conditions. Would Razor Cut have it's cooldown increased from 30s to 45s? That probably sounds crazy, just as this change does for the bloodletter. Bloodletter's E is a straight line attack. A 20s cooldown for a spell that needs the enemy to be below 40% seems right. 30s is disastrous. Please reconsider this change.

      ~~~Why not change this to:

      Daggers:
      • Rapier Stabs (Bloodletter)
        • Cooldown: 20s -> 25s
        • Hitting an enemy below 40% now also reduces all your cooldowns by 5s
      That way if you're using Lunging Stabs as an escape mechanic and aren't hitting an enemy when using it, your cooldown will be at 25s. But if you are using it as a chase/fight mechanic and do hit the enemy then your cooldown and all your cooldowns would be reduced by 5s.~~~


      - Leather Helmets -

      Hunter Hood - Revert the Retaliate reflect duration from 4s to 5s.

      - Leather Armor -

      Assassin Jacket - Increase the damage reflect of Infernal Shield from .3 to .5. 30% reflect to 50% reflect. Most melee use plate armor, specifically soldier's armor for the added damage. Reflecting 20% more could make Infernal Shield more useful (given the hp pools have been increased by 20% in the latest patch)
      Hellion Jacket - Increase the Life Steal Aura ticks. With overall health pools in the game being increased by 20%, Life Steal Aura ticks should be somewhat increased to provide slightly more healing.
      Stalker Jacket - Make Electric Field immune to purges.

      - Leather Shoes -

      With the latest changes to movement speed in game, and with the prevalence of everyone wearing mage sandals, these are suggestions to add some competition of choice in terms of 5v5 shoe selection. Mage sandals don't need a nerf, but they're clearly used on almost all roles and classes.

      Assassin Shoes - Increase the range of Dodge Roll from 5m to 6-8m. Decrease the cooldown from 25s to 20s.
      Royal Shoes - Increase the Evasive Jump range from 9m to 12m. Increase the jump/dive speed so there's less time in the air, less of an arc / quicker.

      The post was edited 7 times, last by Gaheris ().

    • Gaheris wrote:

      This cripples gatherers and buffs gankers against them, gankers who don't need buffs. 10 man gank squads vs. 2 gatherers isn't going to end in a 10v2. It ends in a chase.
      You describe problem perfectly. 10 man gank prepared with builds can only catch gather. Game evole to this sad stage and need to be changed. Gathers are too safe in highest risk zones even they are solo and stop complain about 10+ man groups because gather META with bloodletters + invi potions+ wanderlust + new mouts with 300% speed buff, invisible, dodge etc. forced ppl to play in stupid 10 man gank style.

      I am playing most of the time with daggers and I think it's NOT NERF it's just a bit rework to change some stupid gameplay styles.
      This change is 10000% needed and makes this weapon even better for large scale fights.
      Good change.
    • skillazor wrote:

      Gaheris wrote:

      This cripples gatherers and buffs gankers against them, gankers who don't need buffs. 10 man gank squads vs. 2 gatherers isn't going to end in a 10v2. It ends in a chase.
      You describe problem perfectly. 10 man gank prepared with builds can only catch gather. Game evole to this sad stage and need to be changed. Gathers are too safe in highest risk zones even they are solo and stop complain about 10+ man groups because gather META with bloodletters + invi potions+ wanderlust + new mouts with 300% speed buff, invisible, dodge etc. forced ppl to play in stupid 10 man gank style.
      I am playing most of the time with daggers and I think it's NOT NERF it's just a bit rework to change some stupid gameplay styles.
      This change is 10000% needed and makes this weapon even better for large scale fights.
      Good change.
      Can I introduce you to a fiend cowl, maybe a stun or a silence? ^^ If this is a change to help 10 people catch 1 person... yikes.

      If you're going to increase the cooldown by 10s, 50% increase, to make it harder for solo gatherers and easier for 10 man gank squads, where are we even at?

      Why not simply add some stipulation to the Lunging Stab where if you use it WITHOUT hitting an enemy the cooldown is increased by 10s. That way gankers who lunge through you have a 20 cooldown and gatherers who are lunging at NO ONE have a 30s cooldown.
    • Gaheris wrote:

      an I introduce you to a fiend cowl, maybe a stun or a silence? If this is a change to help 10 people catch 1 person... yikes.

      If you're going to increase the cooldown by 10s, 50% increase, to make it harder for solo gatherers and easier for 10 man gank squads, where are we even at?

      Why not simply add some stipulation to the Lunging Stab where if you use it WITHOUT hitting an enemy the cooldown is increased by 10s. That way gankers who lunge through you have a 20 cooldown and gatherers who are lunging at NO ONE have a 30s cooldown.
      Dude where you read that bloodletter is a gathers weapon :D ?
      All overused weapons in certain situations need to be toned down, like in GvGs.
      Bloodletter was too long Holy Grail of gathers.
    • @Retroman

      "Daggers:
      • Rapier Stabs (Bloodletter)
        • Cooldown: 20s -> 30s
        • Hitting an enemy below 40% now also reduces all your cooldowns by 5s"


      Why not change this to:

      Daggers:
      • Rapier Stabs (Bloodletter)
        • Cooldown: 20s -> 25s
        • Hitting an enemy below 40% now also reduces all your cooldowns by 5s
      That way if you're using Lunging Stabs as an escape mechanic and aren't hitting an enemy when using it, your cooldown will be at 25s. But if you are using it as a chase/fight mechanic and do hit an enemy then your cooldown and all your cooldowns would be reduced by 5s. Just remove the 40% condition for this cooldown reduction to activate.

      Or change it to:

      Daggers:
      • Rapier Stabs (Bloodletter)
        • Cooldown: 20s -> 30s
        • Hitting an enemy below 40% now also reduces all your cooldowns by 10s


      Thus if you're a gatherer and are using this to double dash away and don't get into combat by hitting an enemy with it to activate the cooldown reduction, your cooldown is 30s. If you're a ganker and hit an enemy with it your cooldown on it is 20s. If the 40% condition of this reduction is removed.

      If the reason for this change is to make gatherers more catchable than I don't see why either of these wouldn't be better changes than what is currently being proposed in the balance notes for April 10th. It would increase the cooldown on lunging stabs for gatherers without fully increasing it for gankers if they use it offensively to hit an enemy they're after. If this is not the reason for this 50% cooldown increase, could you tell us what the reasoning behind this change is? Increasing the cooldown of Lunging Stabs from 20s to 30s would be like increasing Razor Cut from 30s to 45s. 50% increase is massive.

      Would neither of these ideas work better for what you have in mind for the weapon?
    • If the reason for this nerf is because gatherers predominantly use bloodletters and are too hard to catch, great, then make it so you can't equip a bloodletter while wearing any piece of gathering gear. Done. Don't hurt other aspects of this weapon because it's what's used to gather more safely. There's infinite solutions to this problem that don't end in bloodletter's having their E's cooldown increased by 50%.
    • solventh wrote:

      now every ganker (exception: solo gankers) will go for double bladed. then double bladed staff will take another nerf like bloodletter. then what? will the weird loop of nerfs go on?
      No it would not, let me explain to you and all people again , why BL was imbalance weapon.

      • One handed , wich can be used with several off - hands , to improve CDR , DMG etc.
      • One of cheapest "meta" relic weapons, with native +100 item power, wich means perfect native Dmg from Q, with one of the lowest CD, and highest Dmg in the game.
      • Two movement spells W+E , could save your ass/or get target in almost any situation. This weapon - is a snowball weapon. Let me explain what does it mean. When you play on BL , you can kill non stop people , from gatherers to solo players with minimal risk. You can do it with special builds , from gang setups that are focused to kill gatherers, to setups that are focused to kill solo/small group players. If something goes wrong , BL user can easy run away and try one more time later, if not , he just successfully disengage combat. Thanks to this tactic , player getting "snowball" advantage with minimal risks and getting richer. Especially if player know in-game mechanics , tactics , meta .
      • You can just take a look all over the world, bloodletters are everywhere. From solo / small groups / ZvZ fights to gatherers. If you think , it is normal - you are wrong. Do you think people are using this weapon because it look cool, or something else? :D
      • Each weapon in the game have its native Resilience Penetration, and guess what , this weapon got one of the highest numbers - 75%, thanks to dagger line weapon. When other got much less %.
      • Only weapon from dagger line , that have HP bonus.
      And now gather all this info together , and make a conclusion , how much imbalance weapon it is. You can compare it too any other "gang" weapon all day long. But the fact - is that all other weapons got pluses and minuses, wich balanced spells, cd , native stats and other bonuses , while BloodLetter got everything.

      All over this years ,since launch - this weapon was on top among others in openworld. And in my opinion , this weapon should be nerfed/changed more.
      Youtube/Equart

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Equartus ().

    • So, just a preface statement here that I've played for nearly two years now and have never spoken up before despite seeing numerous interesting weapons nerfed numerous times for no good reason other than a lack of creativity on the part of the developers. Furthermore, its not altogether the best business ethics to take away time of those who spent egregious amounts of free time building up artifact weapons spec for otherwise whimsical reasons on the part of the developers.

      What is the justification for nerfing one of the most unique and interesting weapons in the game? Increasing its cooldown on the E ability of the bloodletter 50% and as recompense, giving back 25% if you land a hit!? Seriously? That's a kick in the proverbial nuts, and offering a mint afterwards... The Bloodletter is not optimal in PVE, because it is primarily single target, though it has some finishing power; The bloodletter will never be meta in GvG because the E is too circumstantial and is melee, and there are a handful of better weapons out there that can apply more steady pressure; BUT it is a workhorse of the open world because Albion Developers refuse to creatively give anything else mobility in game that can work well with cooldown modifiers;

      Instead of nerfing a unique and interestingly mobile weapon, which IS balanced, why don't you try fixing other less mobile weapons to compete? The double-bladed staff will immediately be the go-to for gankers, if its not already claws. What's the point that you are trying to achieve by nerfing the cooldown on the bloodletter: adding one more weapon to the graveyard of veterans? If your objective is to ruin a perfectly fine weapon, then proceed. Otherwise, maybe you can use this creative energy to boost up some otherwise barely used weapons? For instance, when was the last time you saw single dagger used to gank or in non-hce? Instead of tearing something down like the bloodletter, maybe you should focus on giving some other weapons something that could compete with bloodletter in open world for mobility?
    • solventh wrote:

      now every ganker (exception: solo gankers) will go for double bladed. then double bladed staff will take another nerf like bloodletter. then what? will the weird loop of nerfs go on?
      Then it will be practically impossible to dismount any average player who knows how to juke in open-world.

      Seems to me, SBI wants to nerf dismounting until t4 horses can get anyway from anything.
    • @Retroman Can you please explain why this change is on the table? What is the reasoning behind this massive nerf? What's the intent? This seems like such overkill when daggers could use buffs right now, not nerfs, and not this nerf. If mobility is an issue, why not nerf dash, and buff the other w spells to provide actual aoe pressure and damage to make them more viable as options to use?
    • Equartus wrote:

      solventh wrote:

      now every ganker (exception: solo gankers) will go for double bladed. then double bladed staff will take another nerf like bloodletter. then what? will the weird loop of nerfs go on?
      No it would not, let me explain to you and all people again , why BL was imbalance weapon.
      [list][*]
      [/list]
      it had a finisher role at least.

      no one will use it anymore in every type of pvp. is that how you balance it?
    • Gaheris wrote:

      If mobility is an issue, why not nerf dash, and buff the other w spells to provide actual aoe pressure and damage to make them more viable as options to use?
      dude mobility on bloodletter is an issue, not on dagger pair, 1h dagger, claws etc. why u want nerf dash ? :D

      solventh wrote:

      it had a finisher role at least.

      no one will use it anymore in every type of pvp. is that how you balance it?
      why? it will still had a finisher role
      maybe people will use assassin hood for c/d reduction now if its needed
    • skillazor wrote:

      Gaheris wrote:

      If mobility is an issue, why not nerf dash, and buff the other w spells to provide actual aoe pressure and damage to make them more viable as options to use?
      dude mobility on bloodletter is an issue, not on dagger pair, 1h dagger, claws etc. why u want nerf dash ? :D

      solventh wrote:

      it had a finisher role at least.

      no one will use it anymore in every type of pvp. is that how you balance it?
      why? it will still had a finisher rolemaybe people will use assassin hood for c/d reduction now if its needed
      just for a finishing role if u are choosing a 25 (18-19 with discounts) secs E i think you would have low iq.
    • If this Lunging Stabs change was being suggested as a 20s -> 25s cooldown nerf it would make more sense. Won't 30s be overkill? What other weapons have had their E's cooldown increased by 50%? If the increase was to 25s instead of to 30s, at least then it wouldn't be a nerf if you're using lunging stabs against an enemy below 40% health. But even that condition in the open world is a massive nerf. In the open world its usually not going to be used like that, it will be used as a chase/flee spell. The 40% condition doesn't make a great deal of sense unless Fred's question is how this change is going to work...

      Is it as Fred_the_Barbarian asked? Will using Lunging Stabs against 6 players who are below 40% in a zvz or against 6 mobs that are below 40% in a fame farm reduce all of your cooldown's by 30s? 5s per enemy hit below 40%? That would be a drastic buff in some instances. But still a massive nerf in other areas. 30s still feels too high even if there is no limit to this cooldown reduction. If there is a limit, and it's simply a 5s reduction (30s to 25s) even if you lunging stab through 5 enemies who are all below 40% health, then it's a massive nerf. And I would suggest removing the 40% condition on the cooldown reduction and having it work that if an enemy is hit by your lunging stab, regardless of their health, then a 5s cooldown reduction is applied. That way gatherers who lunging stab at nothing while fleeing would have higher cooldowns than gankers if the gankers lunging stab through them.

      There's plenty of reasons not to make this change. What are the reasons for it, from a developer's standpoint? If this nerf was coming along with buffs to the Dagger line in general it would make more sense for the future of the line. But there is no aoe Q being introduced that would apply sunders in a short radius (3m) to multiple targets like other melee weapons have with their Q's. Axes and Swords have 6m radius Q's. I don't see why a Dagger can't have a 3m aoe Q that applies sunders, (exactly as Sunder Armor does) just with less weapon damage. Half the radius of Swords and Axes seems like a good middle ground.

      I don't see why there isn't more focus on providing aoe to Dagger's Q's or buffing the damage of the aoe spells on Dagger's W abilities, specifically chain slash to give Daggers more aoe pressure in small fights, and to give them aoe spells worth bringing to fame and to pvp content that isn't chasing/ganking where dash would always be preferred. I get not wanting chain slash to be able to be used and then have the player you're fighting be in 40% execute range without any thought behind it because the damage is too high, but with recent hp pool buffs overall, why not add a system to the chain slash spell like how wailing bow does with it's E ability? Have it so the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th enemies hit take 10, 15, 20% more damage. Making it excel more as an aoe pressure spell where the more enemies you're against, and hit, the more effective it becomes. It already has a high energy cost.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Gaheris ().