Dev Talk: Randomized Dungeons, Part Two

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    • Dev Talk: Randomized Dungeons, Part Two

      Hello all,

      In our last Dev Talk, Game Director Robin Henkys (AKA @Eltharyon) introduced Randomized Dungeons, discussed the types of gameplay they offer, and laid out what you can expect from them. In this followup video, he answers your questions regarding the feature and provides a bit more background about the design decisions behind it.



      No time to watch the video? Read on for a written summary. (Note: due to edits, some of the answers below may be more detailed than the answers given in the video.)

      1. PVP Questions

      What are the PvP rules inside of Randomized Dungeons?
      The dungeon inherits the PvP rules from the zone from which it was entered – so if you’re playing in a safe zone, you’ll have safe zone rules, red zone rules in a red zone, and so on.

      How many entrances will a dungeon have?
      The type of dungeons spawning with Oberon will only have a single entrance, as we want to provide a focused PvE experience.. That said, you can meet another group if they follow you into the dungeon or vice versa.

      Are these dungeons large enough for bigger fights?
      These dungeons are designed for a fun PvE experience and don't really have spaces for PvP. They can host PvP on a reasonable scale (about 5v5), but there should not be many large fights happening.

      Are you able to teleport out of the dungeon?
      Yes – we want Randomized Dungeons to feel like any other open-world dungeon experience, and for players to be able to play through them without backing out, so teleporting is available.

      2. General Gameplay Questions

      How long to complete a Randomized Dungeon?
      It depends on the dungeon – on average, it will probably take 15 to 40 minutes depending on the depth. The idea is to be able to play a dungeon relatively quickly, then go back to the surface and find another.

      Tier of loot?
      With Oberon we’ve changed the Black Market loot rules so mobs drop loot up to two tiers above their own. This applies in Randomized Dungeons as well, based on the tier of the dungeon itself.

      Do the dungeons become more difficult as you get deeper?
      The average mobs in a dungeon don't become more difficult (based on playtests, this was an overall frustrating experience), but the density of "highlights" (i.e. high-value objectives) becomes higher the deeper you go.

      What buffs to shrines provide?
      For Randomized Dungeons we chose to focus on booster shrines for Fame and Silver. These are intended to challenge players to maximize their impact by killing as many mobs as possible while the effects last. We may be open to providing combat or other buffs in the future.

      Do Randomized Dungeons close?
      Yes, if there are no players in them anymore. By entering a Randomized Dungeon, you start its lifetime despawn timer. A dungeon will close when there are no more players inside AND the despawn timer has run out.

      How do Randomized Dungeon Maps work?
      Dungeon Maps have been added to the loot tables for the open world and are dropped by nearly all mobs. They are relatively rare, so a group of five players in the open world will find, on average, one map per hour. Maps can of course be bought, sold, and traded, giving the option of collecting maps and chaining them together with appropriate gear.

      Can you find a higher-tier dungeon without a map?
      Maps don't give you a higher-tier dungeon, just the possibility for an enchanted dungeon. So with a T6 map, for example, you can only find a T6 dungeon in a T6 zone.
      We do have plans to add a limited number of higher-tier dungeons, but these will likely be designed as PvP hotspots and announced as such.

      What are the advantages of Randomized Dungeons over Hardcore Expeditions?
      Randomized Dungeons have the advantage of always being available. In addition, they will have the full benefit of their zone's challenge multipliers for Fame, Silver, and loot. Particularly in terms of loot, Randomized Dungeons will be significantly more lucrative than Hardcore Expeditions, and very close to the current fixed dungeons.

      Can other groups join a map dungeon I’ve opened?
      A map essentially causes a dungeon to spawn for you, if used near an appropriate-tiered zone. As you close in on this location, the dungeon spawns. This means you’re almost guaranteed to be the first to the dungeon, but potentially not the last.



      Final Thoughts & Future Plans


      To PvP, or not to PvP?
      We had a lot of questions about PvP, both from those concerned it would interfere with their PvE experience, and from those interested in new PvP options.
      In their current form, Randomized Dungeons are not intended to host large amounts of PvP fights, but are instead there to provide what we call “baseline” PvE, meaning something you can do anytime you log into Albion Online. They should be relatively safe, but should always carry the risk of a random encounter as well.

      The Bigger Picture
      How do Randomized Dungeons fit into our long-term plans for Albion Online? We currently envision them as part of the first of three layers of activities in the game:
      • Layer 1, "baseline activities”, consists of open-world activities that are always available and thus unlikely to produce conflicts (Randomized Dungeons, most gathering and fishing activities). With Oberon, we hope to strengthen this layer and make Albion's open world feel more alive.
      • Layer 2, “opportunities”, consists of activities that are limited in availability and thus spark conflict between players (rare and limited content like treasure chests, world bosses, castles, etc.) We intend to focus our attention on significantly improving this layer next.
      • Layer 3, “strategic activities”, is defined by activities whose usefulness depends on guild and alliance needs (GvGs, city fights, siege camps, etc.) How much activity this layer generates is heavily dependent on circumstances, so we can’t rely on it to provide content for players, but of course it's very important for high-level gameplay.
      That's all for now - we look forward to hearing about your experiences with Randomized Dungeons once Oberon goes live on March 20!
    • What makes you think that there will not be larger fights, like in your answer to "Are these dungeons large enough for bigger fights?" ...? If there is no restriction or similar, they will be dived and scouted for large groups to kill whoever is inside them if its worth it.

      Really greatly implemented those new dungeons, eager to see how they will play out reg. more people out to kill in ow...

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Skitted ().

    • Well, at least they are not linking these duns to "other" entrances as I understood from previous posts, but still I guarantee that it will need to be tweaked a lot.
      You cannot expect to have "low pvp" happening in these if you leave that NOTORIOUSLY big entrance in the OW for the duration of the dun run, it's on detriment of the PVE divers.

      Unless mobs respawn and hinder fast advancement in the dungeon itself, "fishing" for unexpecting PVE divers will become the #1 activity for PVP players all around the server... it's way easier to just find and enter one of these humongous entrances and run through an empty dungeon until you find the leading party than just roam the OW hoping to catch someone by chance.

      So, as I said before. This is just gonna turn into a trap for unexpecting PVE'rs that will return out of good will only to realize they are being offered as the main dish for the regulars.

      I'm not saying you should remove the risk of being ganked, BUT you should have content relatively light on PVP and safe for those players that do not covet PVP content all the time.
      Pleas:
      Remove reroll.
      Up Item trashing chance
      Limit item repairs by quality

      BTW: how's your market holding up?
    • I'm pretty sure the black zone version of these dungeons will become death traps. But I think that will create some very interesting scenarios.
      I can see guilds leaving a scout behind outside the entrance and another scout inside the dungeon but near the entrance. When a new group appear, the ones inside will have the option to either fight the new group, or to leave the dungeon and they will be able to choose depending on the information their scouts gives them.
      Who knows, maybe the new group of players pay enough money to the scout outside to keep it quiet and not warn the others of whats coming....maybe he does actually warns them making the new group of players think he did not gave a warning.

      There is a lot of Interesting stuff that can happen with these new dungeons.

      Still, I think you guys will need to do something that will allow the group inside a dungeon be able to escape if they wish to do so to prevent it from becoming an inescapable death trap.
    • rodox wrote:

      Well, at least they are not linking these duns to "other" entrances as I understood from previous posts, but still I guarantee that it will need to be tweaked a lot.
      You cannot expect to have "low pvp" happening in these if you leave that NOTORIOUSLY big entrance in the OW for the duration of the dun run, it's on detriment of the PVE divers.

      Unless mobs respawn and hinder fast advancement in the dungeon itself, "fishing" for unexpecting PVE divers will become the #1 activity for PVP players all around the server... it's way easier to just find and enter one of these humongous entrances and run through an empty dungeon until you find the leading party than just roam the OW hoping to catch someone by chance.

      So, as I said before. This is just gonna turn into a trap for unexpecting PVE'rs that will return out of good will only to realize they are being offered as the main dish for the regulars.

      I'm not saying you should remove the risk of being ganked, BUT you should have content relatively light on PVP and safe for those players that do not covet PVP content all the time.
      There's gonna be a LOT of entrances, and you have to find them to begin with because they're in different places every day. Gankers would waste a lot of time even just checking the first room of these dungeons. And of course people will get in the habit of skipping the first room of mobs as much as possible, so you can't tell if it's occupied unless you go further in, which would waste even more time.

      Assuming this becomes the MAIN way to fame farm for most people (which the devs said they want it to be), it will actually become a lot more common to run into people out in the world as they travel to and from dungeons, and even between dungeons (since you can't endlessly farm the same dungeon over and over).
    • Tilden wrote:

      There's gonna be a LOT of entrances, and you have to find them to begin with because they're in different places every day. Gankers would waste a lot of time even just checking the first room of these dungeons. And of course people will get in the habit of skipping the first room of mobs as much as possible, so you can't tell if it's occupied unless you go further in, which would waste even more time.
      Assuming this becomes the MAIN way to fame farm for most people (which the devs said they want it to be), it will actually become a lot more common to run into people out in the world as they travel to and from dungeons, and even between dungeons (since you can't endlessly farm the same dungeon over and over).
      In order to have a LOT of entrances there's got to be demand for them to justify. I don't think the devs are just going to spam endless entrances all around without even checking the density of population around, that's just not effective use of server resources. But well.. I'm not familiar on how they work with server resources, it's just not something I'd expect from a decent dev to do.

      Gankers would not be wasting time. You'd say it's a lot more time-efficient to just roam the OW trying to find other parties to fight?
      With entrances (if they have good rewards) the choice will be a no-brainer, there's almost a 100% guarranty for you to find someone, AND even if you are first there, you'd still want to go in because of the good rewards and the possibility of someone dropping on you. So they are just making the lives of the gankers easier.

      Habits about clearing or not the first few mobs or some other methods to deceive possible gankers.... well, some players might go to those lenghts to keep themselves safe, but mob placements are always made so that it's impossible for a group to just advance without killing at least something. And if that is the case right now (I've not played for a long time) then I'd say it's no wonder why dungeons in this game where not that interesting for me the last time I played.

      Assuming this becomes the MAIN way to farm fame and it indeed becomes a lot more common to run into ppl in the OW, then the devs would have utterly failed because at various points in the vid and posts they have stated that the random duns are thought to be an addition to PVE, with RELATIVELY LIGHT PVP involvement.
      Pleas:
      Remove reroll.
      Up Item trashing chance
      Limit item repairs by quality

      BTW: how's your market holding up?
    • Add a system message when someone enters a dungeon you are already in:

      ‘Echos ring through the dungeon alerting you. You are not alone.’

      This equals the playing field between PvEer and dungeon diver. Both groups will know if someone else is there. The diver knows because mobs will be down, the PvEer will know because of the system message. Now there is no reason for a scout (which is a boring role to play) and players can choose if they want to take the fight or not.
    • Lanyday wrote:

      Add a system message when someone enters a dungeon you are already in:

      ‘Echos ring through the dungeon alerting you. You are not alone.’

      This equals the playing field between PvEer and dungeon diver. Both groups will know if someone else is there. The diver knows because mobs will be down, the PvEer will know because of the system message. Now there is no reason for a scout (which is a boring role to play) and players can choose if they want to take the fight or not.
      Players would still need to keep some scouts for information. Im sure most players will not try to fight if they have no idea how many gankers are there. They will all run. I would run. Scouting is a boring role but hey, some one has to do it right?