Crafting = selling your focus, nothing more

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    • Crafting = selling your focus, nothing more

      Crafting is only profitable if focus is used (hell, often you can only break even with focus), otherwise raw materials are more valuable. This is irritating because if you want to craft more than a couple items per day you're doing it at a financial loss once you're out of focus.

      Do you guys think this is healthy for one of the game's core mechanics?

      Edit: My suggestion would be to make focus function more like a fame boost, and bake the resource return functionality of current focus into specialization or reduce the materials required in recipes. That way focus is still valuable, but not the sole determining factor in a craft's profit margin.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Solix ().

    • Fred_the_Barbarian wrote:

      That's a terrible idea. You think that not making money on no-focus crafting is bad? Try not making money at all since the established crafters have crazy high return rates and can undercut you with ease.
      Then let's do away with the resource return rate all together, especially its tie to focus. Adjust (reduce) the material cost of the recipes to result in same number of items craftable on average per material.

      Every crafted item on the market is driven to floor-pricing based on double-focus crafts (focus refine materials, focus craft the item). The current system cleverly masks the fact that you're not actually selling anything valuable except your focus when you create anything.

      But I get it, it will never happen, because the current system forces additional characters to maintain premium subs because the focus points are the most valuable and mandatory currency in the game.
    • Solix wrote:

      Fred_the_Barbarian wrote:

      That's a terrible idea. You think that not making money on no-focus crafting is bad? Try not making money at all since the established crafters have crazy high return rates and can undercut you with ease.
      Then let's do away with the resource return rate all together, especially its tie to focus. Adjust (reduce) the material cost of the recipes to result in same number of items craftable on average per material.
      Every crafted item on the market is driven to floor-pricing based on double-focus crafts (focus refine materials, focus craft the item). The current system cleverly masks the fact that you're not actually selling anything valuable except your focus when you create anything.

      But I get it, it will never happen, because the current system forces additional characters to maintain premium subs because the focus points are the most valuable and mandatory currency in the game.
      At which point all your profits evaporate as the perfectly competitive market drives profits to 0. If you vaporize the barriers to entry for a market, people are going to flood in and you will make nothing as you try to sell your halberds in a sea of other people selling almost identical halberds to yours. People are going to mass-craft shit hoping they hit an excellent/masterpiece item, which will also devalue all the lower-quality items made by- you guessed it- low spec crafters starting out. Again, the established crafters win and you lose.
    • Fred_the_Barbarian wrote:

      Solix wrote:

      Fred_the_Barbarian wrote:

      That's a terrible idea. You think that not making money on no-focus crafting is bad? Try not making money at all since the established crafters have crazy high return rates and can undercut you with ease.
      Then let's do away with the resource return rate all together, especially its tie to focus. Adjust (reduce) the material cost of the recipes to result in same number of items craftable on average per material.Every crafted item on the market is driven to floor-pricing based on double-focus crafts (focus refine materials, focus craft the item). The current system cleverly masks the fact that you're not actually selling anything valuable except your focus when you create anything.

      But I get it, it will never happen, because the current system forces additional characters to maintain premium subs because the focus points are the most valuable and mandatory currency in the game.
      At which point all your profits evaporate as the perfectly competitive market drives profits to 0. If you vaporize the barriers to entry for a market, people are going to flood in and you will make nothing as you try to sell your halberds in a sea of other people selling almost identical halberds to yours. People are going to mass-craft shit hoping they hit an excellent/masterpiece item, which will also devalue all the lower-quality items made by- you guessed it- low spec crafters starting out. Again, the established crafters win and you lose.
      And in the current system the exact same is true... and the more established the older crafters become the more efficiently they use their focus, further cementing the prices down in the "focused" (cheaper) selling price, further rising the barrier to entry for new crafters. A new crafter is taking a huge financial hit to craft anything beyond their 10,000 focus per day. Additionally, that 10,000 focus per day is only good for a couple items for a new crafter, whereas the same amount of focus is good for significantly more crafts for the established guys.

      I think there should be a benefit to having spent the time, effort, and money on leveling up your crafting skills. But that benefit should not come at the cost of preventing the content for newcomers to the point they have to decide to eat losses for months while leveling in order just to level up their skills.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Solix ().

    • The difference is that although they use their focus more efficiently, that doesn't make them significantly better at producing the product, just better at producing more of it. Both of your suggestions have made it more difficult for the new crafter to craft, not less. A 400/400 plate crafter can whine, complain, do a little dance, perform a blood sacrifice to the Great Old Ones, but he can never do better than 44% resource return in Caerleon. He makes more profit per focus (because he uses less focus), but his profit per unit stays the same. This is good for the new crafter because although they can't compete on volume, they can certainly compete on production cost.
    • Solix wrote:

      Then let's do away with the resource return rate all together, especially its tie to focus. Adjust (reduce) the material cost of the recipes to result in same number of items craftable on average per material.
      Every crafted item on the market is driven to floor-pricing based on double-focus crafts (focus refine materials, focus craft the item). The current system cleverly masks the fact that you're not actually selling anything valuable except your focus when you create anything.

      But I get it, it will never happen, because the current system forces additional characters to maintain premium subs because the focus points are the most valuable and mandatory currency in the game.
      Do me a favor. Someone walks up to you in Caerleon and wants to buy your finest T3 Crossbow. You however don't have a T3 Crossbow or anything to make one with. Walk me through how you would full fill this guys order and how much you would charge him for his crossbow. Then give me the math you used to figure out your cost and a brief summary of how you decided what to charge the guy.

      After you do that, I'll do it myself. Then we can compare and contrast. T3 is nice to work with because no one in their right mind is ever going to use focus and it generally offers really good margins on a per item basis. You aren't allowed to just buy a crossbow and sell it to the guy either. You have to get the materials and craft it. Then just give a little Sell Price - Cost = Proft. at the very end.

      Hell, anyone else that wants to participate can to. I will give whoever gives the best answer a prize of.... 100 silver! We can call it the Piddle Co. T3 Crossbow Crafting Challenge!

      Ex: I went to the AH in Caerleon and bought 20 T3 Planks for (whatever the price is for that) and 12 T3 Metal Bars for (price). I went to a forge with N% taxes and made the crossbow, getting back N% of the mats. (We need to use a % so that RNG doesn't mess with stuff). The crossbow was of good quality (we will assume that we all get good quality). Having paid X silver for the materials I decided to charge him X +Y silver. SellPrice - Cost = Profit

      The more robust and accurate the answer the better. The challenge is less about making the most silver and more about explaining your process the best.
      Discord: Piddle#7413
    • Hi!

      As a new player just going outside the first city (for beginner), I think it's a good exercise to be sure to understand correctly the game mechanisms. And as I want to become a specialist in crafting some specific stuff, understanding that is a good idea.

      In my "case", I am at Fort Sterling.
      For resource, the return rate is 35%, tax 30%
      For crafting the bow, I will have a return rate of 15%, tax 30%.

      First step: I will not use focus point and I will go on the nearest zone to obtain the raw resources: 32 Birch Logs and 64 chestnut logs.

      Second Step: I will use the Lumbermill to obtain the 32 Chestnut plank I need.
      I will craft 32 birch planks for 0 silver and obtain 11 birch log back.
      I will then craft 32 chestnut planks for 288 silvers and obtain 22 chestnuts logs and 11 birch plank as return.

      Third Step: I will go to the hunter lodge to craft the bow.
      I will use my 32 chestnut planks and pay the 288 silvers tax.
      I will obtain 11 chestnut planks back as return.

      Fourth step:
      At this point, the craft costs me 576 silvers. For the time passed to obtain the resource,I decided to apply a 25% margin => 144 silvers. so my selling price will be: 720 silvers.
      For your information and I think, it is part of this kind of crafting work, in the AH in Fort sterling, the cheapest bow costs 820 silvers.

      Question (that may change my calculation): I don't think we obtain silver back with the return rate?
    • Kreeger wrote:

      For the time passed to obtain the resource,I decided to apply a 25% margin
      This is good. It shows you understand that your time has value and the wood you gather isn't free.

      Kreeger wrote:

      At this point, the craft costs me 576 silvers.
      This not so much. You could have sold the logs on the Fort Sterling marketplace for almost 5000 silver. You're valuing your resources, but you're not valuing them relative to what the market will pay.

      Don't value your crafts based on the tax charged by crafting stations alone. Factor that in, but also consider how much you could make just selling the raw or refined materials on the market.
    • thanks for the advice Fred!

      I know that some raw or refined materials are more on the market (depending also on the area) :)

      My answer was oriented to respect the "definition" of this exercise defined by Piddle. Personally, I am currently training my character to be able to craft several t4 stuff and I plan to specialized myself in the coming days I still have to define what will be the best choice of specialization.
    • In this game there are several mechanics that help you achieve profit.
      1. high crafting skills that will allow you to produce more items on focus.
      2. High crafting skills that will allow you to produce better quality items.
      3. Labourers who will return materials /ressources for fullfilled journals.
      4. A black market where low-tier items can always be sold at a profit.
      5. Trade between cities, and a bigger return bonus in royal cities.

      Some examples.
      1. With higher specs, You can craft more items, which means that You have more chances for Masterpiece items. At almost 400/400 i can craft 69 arcane staffs T7.0 with 30k focus.

      2. From this 69 arcane staffs, almost always got MP. difference between not MP arcane staff and MP staff is BIG, Avarage price for not MP arcane staff is 35k, MP arcane staff cost 1.2kk-4kk. (Pure Profit)

      3. 69 arcane staff allow me to fullfill 74 T7 journals, every journal can give me up to 6-7 Cloth/Planks/Bars. which is 6*74=444. (most cloths and planks) let's multiple this by avarage cost of cloth/plank. 444*3000=1,332,000. (pure profit), You can always sell those journals, but You will need new ones, because labourers always return materials and journal. Profit for selling journals is like 10k each, so it would gave You 740k pure profit :) PS. Labourers can give You X.3 materials/ressources, so..

      4. Let's say. You are crafting T3 plate helmets in Fort Sterling. Materials cost around 800 silver (-return ofc) and You are able to sell those helmets for around 1k-2k silver in black market (pure profit)

      5. When ur caltulations gives u 0,00 profit in caerleon, buy materials in royal cities, craft there, and sell items in caerleon (pure profit)

      Have a nice day!
    • New into crafting, trying for a moment to figure out which craft targets, how to optimize production and more important : is it profitable

      For now i'm kinda break even with my production but it does not leads to nice profits and i think i might do some stuff wrong (crafting cloth armor)

      tabooshka wrote:

      thats why blackmarket exists, easily can make several milions daily without single focus
      I treid to spreadsheet this and I can't see how you can make millions with it if you don't gather / refine the mats

      Hycelmen wrote:

      In this game there are several mechanics that help you achieve profit.
      1. high crafting skills that will allow you to produce more items on focus.
      2. High crafting skills that will allow you to produce better quality items.
      3. Labourers who will return materials /ressources for fullfilled journals.
      4. A black market where low-tier items can always be sold at a profit.
      5. Trade between cities, and a bigger return bonus in royal cities.

      Some examples.
      1. With higher specs, You can craft more items, which means that You have more chances for Masterpiece items. At almost 400/400 i can craft 69 arcane staffs T7.0 with 30k focus.

      2. From this 69 arcane staffs, almost always got MP. difference between not MP arcane staff and MP staff is BIG, Avarage price for not MP arcane staff is 35k, MP arcane staff cost 1.2kk-4kk. (Pure Profit)

      3. 69 arcane staff allow me to fullfill 74 T7 journals, every journal can give me up to 6-7 Cloth/Planks/Bars. which is 6*74=444. (most cloths and planks) let's multiple this by avarage cost of cloth/plank. 444*3000=1,332,000. (pure profit), You can always sell those journals, but You will need new ones, because labourers always return materials and journal. Profit for selling journals is like 10k each, so it would gave You 740k pure profit :) PS. Labourers can give You X.3 materials/ressources, so..

      4. Let's say. You are crafting T3 plate helmets in Fort Sterling. Materials cost around 800 silver (-return ofc) and You are able to sell those helmets for around 1k-2k silver in black market (pure profit)

      5. When ur caltulations gives u 0,00 profit in caerleon, buy materials in royal cities, craft there, and sell items in caerleon (pure profit)

      Have a nice day!
      I dont have the same numbers for fort sterling plate helmet crafting, I think I miss smthing

      BM sell price depends on quality so you need to already have specs for it right ? otherwise sell price is around 400s
      Which does not cover the cost of crafting even in FS [800*(1-30%) = 560}

      The post was edited 2 times, last by DockS ().

    • tabooshka wrote:

      thats why blackmarket exists, easily can make several milions daily without single focus
      I was experimenting in BM sale, i only managed to get like 1 mil/hour, the bottleneck in this is the number of player willing to sale at buyer asking price. And i cant get it to work everytime because once it reach equillibrium, i need to wait a few hour until BM asking price start to increase again.
      Im not crafting, just buying stuff at Auction house then sell it at BM.
      IGN : RickCartman
    • I also enjoy the Albion crafting how it is designed but you re not wrong entirely. Making profit without focus is hard.

      Some suggestions in order to make more profit...

      • Train your mastery because the high TIERS of items you are able to craft the less competitors you ll have. Ofc you ll also have less customers to a certain degree
      • Dont expect your items to be sold all on day 1 and dont have the expectations to spend all your crafting materials in 2-3 days. Wait untill you have more fokus and repeat
      • If you craft a lot of an item of a certain type, then consider doing it in one of the outer city (risk with gankers)
      • If you refine a lot and craft from the refined mats then consider refining in an outer city (risk with gankers)
      • Always use t6.0 salad at least
      • Sell .0 and .1 low lvl stuff to the balck market and make more/faster profit than trying to sell it all at carleon AH
      • Even if you dont have/use island workers, have empty crafting books with you. You can sell them when you fill them. It pays of big time
      • Re-roll quality for certain items. I do that when i craft a normal quality grovekeeper and after 2-3 rolls i get often outstanding as result, which pays of. This is ofc some sort of gambling
      • Consider upgrading your crafted items with rune, or soul receipes (no expert in that but i do know that it pays of for soem products)
      • Be patient and resilient and dont give up when you encounter market PvP. Focus on one, or two produkts and you ll climb the ladder pretty fast. If you focus on 5-6 different products u ll need to invest much more reccources untill you make profit
      • Work with buy/sell orders and have the 4 weeks price chart in mind


      If you consider justa few of the suggestions you ll raise your profit margin