Crafting = selling your focus, nothing more

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    • After testing it again, you definetly need high specs to "make a million" with the blackmarket and t3 stuff otherwise your return is negative or just above breakeven and you dn't have the volume of buy orders in the black market to make millions (unless i'm definetly missing smthing)
    • short overview of Black Market mechanic:
      - Buy order is generated and start to grow in price. (Limit of this growth is very high, much more than average auction prices).
      - Sometimes buy orders are generated with very nice starting price.
      - Pay attention to black market right after Daily Maintenance time.
      A lot of new orders created after each Maintenance.
      - Good profitable orders disappears when some players complete them by selling listed item.
      - But if no one notices that growing order, it can grow to even bigger price and profit.
      - Most interesting orders come in large bulks and usually for Good or Normal quality. Its always better to sell 20 t8 Bags with 15k profit from each, than 1 Excellent t8 bag with 30k profit.
      It seems that Black Market Npc values quality much less than us, Players. :D
      - If you see bad pricing for certain item, dont worry. Just give it time to grow.
      - Bags and capes orders often goes in VERY large packs. You can meet like 50 pcs and more. Just wait for good price and sell your loads.
    • I was sorta obsessed with the BM for a long time. It's a really interesting mechanic. It's impact on the economy is pretty huge and if you are going to be a "crafter" you should spend the time it takes to understand the peculiarities of it. It ties together PvE and crafting, and also acts as a sort of global trash collector for unwanted items.

      Some of the Tips and Tricks are:

      It works off the Item Value (IV) stat on items. So each time an item increments upwards in price the order size increases by the IV of that item.

      Quality is important. You can use higher quality items to freeze out lower quality item orders. So if there is a T4 normal bag order moving up towards 3200 and there is a T4 normal bag for sale at 3200, if I want I can put a T4 good bag up for sale at 3200, and when that normal bag buy order hits 3200 my good bag is going to fill that order. Higher quality items have higher sell priority at the same price point.

      As letwolf said, some categories of items have larger buy orders active on the market. The amount of orders for each item is FIXED. The only time the number of orders changes is in the brief time between when an order is filled and when that item is incremented again and a new order is created at 1 x IV.

      The speed at which each item increments in price is dependent on a number of factors, but is sort of intuitive. Flat item orders increment faster than enchanted item orders. Low quality order increment faster than high quality orders. Items that appear on more loot charts or with a higher drop rate on loot charts increment faster. I had to figure all this out by sitting there and watching the orders, but since they implemented the sales volume pull out, you can just look at it to see about how many items are getting sold each day/week/month and compare them.

      LOTS of people interact with the BM, not just crafters. They don't all have the same priorities as you do and they will not price items the same way you do. I didn't start off crafting into the BM. I started off trading into it from the royals. I'd go find gear that was absurdly cheap. Sometimes bought for below the salvage value. Then ride it to the BM for bigly profits. Being a T2-T5 trash collector in the royals is some of the highest margin trading in the game. You can buy 24-32 mat items for 400-800 silver sometimes and then sell them on the BM for 2400-3200 or more. These people can end up just overloading the slots for some items and it can take weeks for the glut of crap to clear out.

      The BM doesn't care if people craft 10 T3 Broadswords and 10 T3 Bow, for each T3 Arcane Staff or Mace. The items all increment more or less evenly. So the items that tend to sell for the most are the ones people make the least of. This is why my crafting spec is mostly garbage. I was crafting to make silver and so the things I was making were the things other people either didn't craft a lot or weren't being used. Out of fashion items tend to sell for more overall.

      The higher the price of the order compared to its IV, the less of them sell per unit of time. A common mistake I see is someone looks at the BM and sees the sell order for some item is like 100x the IV. So they go get one and list it for 1 less silver. The problem is that the sell order is so high compared to IV that well before the buy order gets to that price, someone else is going to come along and see the BM offering 50x IV for it and is going to just go get one and sell it directly. So that 100x IV order is just dead money. The chances of the order getting that high without anyone noticing is minute. Inversely, the lower the price sell order is compared to the IV, the more of that item you are going to sell. If you list an item for 1x IV every single time that slot of the BM increments, you will sell 1 of the thing. If you list an item for 2x IV you will sell half as many, and so on. What you are looking to do is sell the most of that item you can before someone else comes along and undercuts you. Pay attention to the averages.

      Don't place huge orders. If you place a huge order someone will either freeze you out completely, or make you move your order down over and over, cutting into your profits.
    • Alright, bearing in mind I'm answering this thread not sober, and having not read any of the replies, I just want to jump in here and say:


      I make approx 600k profit per day from crafting things.
      I buy my resources on the auction house
      I buy my artifacts on the auction house
      I do not use focus to craft anything.

      It is totally possible to profit from crafting. 90% of my profit comes from Tier 4 items.

      You just have to do the research.
    • Neu

      Thank you @Piddle really intersting reading !

      @Heppernaut I don't doubt there is a way to make profit through crafting (otherwise there would be more than a bunch of retards out there fueling the Zergs ^^) And I am certainly missing pieces.

      I am theorycrafting through spreadsheets and trying experiences with a batch of items / mats I buy (say to craft 100 items at each try to have something representative) for a couple of month now, studying the markets (both caer and royals) and just trying recently to learn about the BM which is again another story.

      All in all I have to say that I have a better view thant 2 month ago but I can't figure exactly how I can profit a lot (more than a couple of Ks per unit) except with high specs on crafting [not for t3 in BM gotacha] and again I must miss something (but I won't stop ^^)
    • Neu

      I usually try to make at least 10% profit on whatever I'm crafting. Usually that does mean ~20 to 30k per item. I just have to do a lot of items.

      It's very useful to take into account how much an item sells. Things that move in massive bulk, only make 2k on is fine if you're selling 100 of them a day.

      Bigger ticket items, I tend to hope for a 300~400k profit per, but sometimes it takes a week or so to sell 1
    • Neu

      Heppernaut schrieb:

      I usually try to make at least 10% profit on whatever I'm crafting. Usually that does mean ~20 to 30k per item. I just have to do a lot of items.

      It's very useful to take into account how much an item sells. Things that move in massive bulk, only make 2k on is fine if you're selling 100 of them a day.

      Bigger ticket items, I tend to hope for a 300~400k profit per, but sometimes it takes a week or so to sell 1
      I got the 10% margin and i get your range of profit but the 20-30k margin aren't for the T4 / 4.X tier items.

      You were speaking of a 600kprofit a day with crafting with mostly T4without focus, so i'd guess you were speaking about royal crafting to get the returns but even with that my math aren't right so I'll dig more ^^


      @Finalhecate wow impressive quantity and numbers ! Does pork pie increase crafting yield on top of gathering ??

      You didn't use any focus and get 22m profits even if you were starting from raw mats ! Thats definetly impressiv for my understanding

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von DockS ()

    • Neu

      DockS schrieb:

      Heppernaut schrieb:

      I usually try to make at least 10% profit on whatever I'm crafting. Usually that does mean ~20 to 30k per item. I just have to do a lot of items.

      It's very useful to take into account how much an item sells. Things that move in massive bulk, only make 2k on is fine if you're selling 100 of them a day.

      Bigger ticket items, I tend to hope for a 300~400k profit per, but sometimes it takes a week or so to sell 1
      I got the 10% margin and i get your range of profit but the 20-30k margin aren't for the T4 / 4.X tier items.
      You were speaking of a 600kprofit a day with crafting with mostly T4without focus, so i'd guess you were speaking about royal crafting to get the returns but even with that my math aren't right so I'll dig more ^^


      @Finalhecate wow impressive quantity and numbers ! Does pork pie increase crafting yield on top of gathering ??

      You didn't use any focus and get 22m profits even if you were starting from raw mats ! Thats definetly impressiv for my understanding
      yeah that about 1 year ago, as for crafting for pie i havent tried it, dont think it work that way either, as for raw material that what im doing now, i quit 1 year ago and im back for 2week testing the game waiting for the march 20 patch, if you asking about todays standard of profit well

      imgur.com/a/lsy3sd8 this would be a days worth of farming.. make sure you watch movie while doing so...

      also 100/100 t5 spec, t8 gathering set. gathering yield on skinning can be 100% bonus 1 and bonus 2 at 75% or so [not adding the premium bonus, so that another plus]..
      sell price in lym. 135 on fiber t8 [quick sell] 185 or 183 on skinning.. very cheap but still gives a pay..

      I made a thread 1 year ago when the rate was 500/1 silver to gold ratio on farming in safe zone Gathering In Yellow For Premium, the fact that i can still do it at 1300/1 silver to gold ratio is still amazes me as i though it would be time limited, meaning it would end once it reached that high[cost of silver to gold] and it would no longer be valid to do the gathering...

      btw this is nothing to what blackzone gathers with guild can make nor dungeon either, a friend of mine makes 600ksilver/h in dungeon he said.
      Stacking: goo.gl/xPMhXU
      Profit after selling stacking: goo.gl/5nBohp
      My labourer houses : goo.gl/GK4CMs
    • Neu

      You are speaking about gathering and then refining then crafting, I know that this is the most profitable but I don't enjoy that much gathering and I have a lon road ahead for my tools.

      I was focusing more on the crafting side (buying mats and crafting for a lower profit compared to doing the whole chain)
    • Neu

      DockS schrieb:

      You are speaking about gathering and then refining then crafting, I know that this is the most profitable but I don't enjoy that much gathering and I have a lon road ahead for my tools.

      I was focusing more on the crafting side (buying mats and crafting for a lower profit compared to doing the whole chain)
      All honesty 1 year ago, the whole buy and then craft was never making people money unless they were using focus. It was always the raw material that made the money in a raw>craft... Funny part is this whole discussion can probably be found some where in the forum.
      Stacking: goo.gl/xPMhXU
      Profit after selling stacking: goo.gl/5nBohp
      My labourer houses : goo.gl/GK4CMs
    • Neu

      T3 Crossbow Challenge

      Basic Crafting Calc

      Profit = Income - Expenses

      Profit = (Item + FJournal) - (Materials(1-RRR) + EJournal + T/N + ttaa)

      This is just off the top of my head, but it is where you end up living most of your life if you want to craft a lot. There are lots of ways to do all this math correctly and lots of ways to do it really badly. FJournal and EJournal are just there to signify The Full Journal and Empty Journal. T/N is Taxes or Nutrition. ttaa is a catch all for a bunch of super try hard crafting stuff, it stands for travel, time, attention and amortization. In the same way that you should be calculating your income in relation to time with other activities, you should also do so with crafting. You also have expenses in the form of journals and houses that are usually one time costs, but need applied evenly over everything you craft.

      To make my life easier I am going to make a lot of assumptions and hand wave the ttaa away. The houses and journals get amortized away eventually anyhow, and the rest of the ttaa stuff is really subjective and personal. The other thing I am going to assume is that you are going to keep the journal through the whole process. If you want to craft with journals, but without houses, or you get to the point where you are just filling more journals than you can possibly process or would want to. You can, but you are giving up a chunk of profit.

      So through the powers of simplification we end up with,

      Profit = Item - [(Materials(1-(RRR+Journal))) + Taxes

      Journal is the modifier for the extra RRR that you get by using journals. At 100% a journal returns 20% of the materials used to fill it and at 150% it returns 30%,

      Step 1.

      Buy the materials. For T3 there is only one place to go to buy cheap mats, and that is the rim cities. That's where the stuff comes from and the price isn't inflated by the ridiculously high risk aversion rates that people charge for taking things to Caerleon. I try not to pay more than 100 silver per refined T3 material and for everything but leather that isn't really that difficult to accomplish. But today I'll use the T3 Tool trick to get my materials. People don't understand the salvage mechanic very well and so they often price things on the market poorly. The salvage mechanic gives you 25% of the materials the item is made from and 75% of the Item Value amount in silver. So, I am in BW and not looking to do a lot of travel to save more. So I buy some tools for 200 each and throw them in the salvager. The end result being that I bought planks and bars for 82 silver each. So for the 32 materials I need I am all in for 2624.

      Buying your materials is one of the most important parts of the whole crafting thing.

      Step 2.

      Crafting. Not coincidentally at all, I bought my materials in BW which also happens to be the city that offers a bonus to crafting crossbows. So I am certainly not going to carry my materials around more than I have to MasterLoup is offering a Tax Rate of 6% multiplied by the T3 rate of .3 silver, we are looking at Taxes = 32 * (6*.3) or about 58 silver in taxes, with a RRR of 25%

      So our Expense calculation looks like,

      = (2624(1 - (.25+.3)) + 58
      =1239 silver

      So for 1239 silver we get ourselves a Good Quality T3 Crossbow.

      Step 3.

      Selling the Crossbow. If we don't want to do any traveling we can just sell it in BW. The market price there is about 3000 silver, give or take, but you will only sell a couple of them a day. We can do better. So we ride our Crossbow to Caerleon where we discover that the BM Sell orders are in the 8400 silver range, with the 4 week average in the 7400 silver range. There was a sell order already available for me and so I sold it for 8400ish silver after market taxes. You can probably sell between 20-30 a day to the BM without a lot of trouble.

      Profit = Income - Expense

      7161 = 8400 - 1239

      Final

      I won't even hash out all the metrics for why turning 1200 silver into 7100 silver is good, but these people who are telling you to just sell raw mats or refined mats and that crafting doesn't make any money. I don't really know what to say to those people. They wanted you to sell your mats for 140 silver and walk away with about 2016 silver in your pocket. Crafting is more better.

      I knew that the Crossbow was going to be insanely profitable when I made the post though. 500% profit margins aren't the norm, even in T3, but they happen regularly and sustain for a reasonable amount of time if you don't go crazy crafting too many Xbows. As you go up tier, the profit margins start to get squeezed more and more, but the gross amount of silver you earn goes up as well.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Piddle ()

    • Neu

      That's a lot of information, thanks all of you for highlight the different aspect of crafting.

      As a new player starting to use his focus and crafting skills, I may have some questions/comments that need your feedback:

      - to progress and in the crafting of some specific armor or weapon, do you use the "study" option (with or without focus)?

      - I understand that the correct use of the BM can improve the margin, but for new player like me, what about the risk or going through several red zone with our production? In particular knowing that after that, In Caerlon, can we go back to another royal city with our gear or naked (or can we use a guild island inbetween to travel safe)?

      Thanks in advance!
    • Neu

      Crafting being unprofitable without focus is not true.

      Maybe you should stop producing stuff that the market has an oversupply of and/or stop listing your items so cheap.

      Material cost is high because if it was low everyone would just buy from market and not gather. The only people who should buy materials on the market are those that have a very good idea what they are going to craft and how exactly they can turn a profit on it.

      Just crafting what you think looks nice won't work. Look at the market what has low supply and/or high demand. Someone else needs to buy your items in the end, right?
      Head of the 'Traders and merchants guild'

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Rixlette ()

    • Neu

      thanks a lot @Piddle learn a lot of thing in that example


      @Rixlette saying "it's not true" doesn't rly help
      Ppl saying taht (or my comments or some above) try to figure out the mechanics behind because at first it is what it looks like.

      More importantly when you speak with crafters who tells you that they have 2 alts with premium to keep the focus rolling in and are making huge profits with it