This patch made fallen stronger than ever.

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    • This patch made fallen stronger than ever.

      Please also read my misc. Feedback Post:
      Compilation of Feedback (Gathering, Artifacts, Hellgates, Scaling, IP Caps, Animation/Item Abilities)


      Why fallen is now stronger than ever.


      Firstly, if you weren’t using a cultist robe with fallen, you previously had to be using mana reduction passives on your chest and shoes, however due to the 20% energy buff which also translates to a 20% energy pot buff and 20% lymhurst cape buff, you no longer need to take these passives which basically means the staff got an 11.5% healing buff to non-cultist robe users. On top of that, the 20% buff to hp is a large buff to fallen staff. The larger HP pool makes it easier for fallen staff users to get more value from the reset to heal the entire team instead of a single target, and the half meter nerf to fallen radius is almost meaningless in comparison.On top of that, arcane was considered one of the weapons that was ‘descent’ against fallen (as it does a lot of single target damage), however, the increase in health pool, movement speed buff, and frazzle change are all nerfs for arcane and the weapon will not be as good at trying to force an early reset. I’ll also note that fallen is currently very good against infernal staves, which are mandatory to have on GvG teams at the moment.


      Here’s a breakdown of the other healing weapons and why they are/aren’t used *Note: I took heal values at 1060 IP with no bonuses/armor*

      Fallen – (565 heal, 30cd)


      1H Holy – (349 heal, 15cd) Not even comparable to fallen. Heals for only 62% of a fallen staff E, is SINGLE TARGET, and has a conditional requirement of the target being in range and below 40% health. Players would rather take a second holy orb than take the 1h holy E. The lower cooldown doesn’t mean much because getting the condition of a player below 40% health and being in range makes you unable to spam it on cooldown like holy orb, which generally gives you more healing value to begin with due to it hitting multiple targets. This weapon is trash, why on earth does a single target weapon with a condition heal for 62% of a weapon that heals the entire team? The 1h holy staff should at least heal more single target than the fallen staff. This isn’t even really a problem with the 1h holy staff itself, but rather that fallen is so batshit op.


      Great Holy – (85 x 6 = 510 heal, 25cd) This weapon requires you to channel for about 4-5 seconds and your allies must be standing next to you to get the heal. This is much harder to pull off than having them group up for a single split second and the positional requirement of being near your team mates is very dangerous to pull off for the front line.The E is also easier to interrupt than fallen and requires you to stay still and stops you from casting other spells. The maximum heal should amount to more than the fallen since this is so much more difficult to pull off. However, this weapon is the most commonly used ZvZ healing staff, and for this reason I don’t see it as needing a change. Don’t get me wrong, fallen is definitely much better in ZvZ, but there are not enough fallen artifacts introduced into the game for everyone to bring one.


      1h nature – (365 heal at 3 stacks, 18cd)1h nature is not played because the e is designed to be too situational and on 3 stacks only heals for 64% of the fallen E to begin with. A good tank will never let you get your e off on the one target that needs it. He can either displace you from your target, displace the target, interrupt your e (the e is easy to interrupt and a 1h nature can’t afford to use a knight helm), purge hots on the target, silence you. Literally every tank weapon and helmet is a hard counter to the staff. However, there are a few people who try one handed nature staff (usually with a greedy max cast speed / max energy regain build that runs no defensive) and they can sometimes get away with it against bad tanks. As the weapon stands, you could double the healing output from the E and people would still rather play druidic. I don’t think this weapon should be bothered with for balancing raw healing values as I feel like design is limiting it, not the healing values. This weapon also only heals the 5 players closest to you, NOT the 5 players that may have HoTs or were the lowest HP. It happens that very often in a group of say 6 people, the one person you need to heal is standing the furthest away from you or moving away from you as you cast and doesn’t get the heal. Using this weapon in a group larger than 5 feels like a mess. I also personally think this weapon design isn’t fun and should be reworked.


      Blight – (69 x 6 = 414 heal 25cd) The E heals for only 73% of a fallen staff and your team must be standing next to you for the entire duration of the cast which is much more difficult to pull off than grouping on the fallen for an instant. On top of that the blight staff E has poor synergy with the rest of its kit. It doesn’t synergize well with protection of nature and by casting the E you must let all your rejuvenation stacks fall off. Since the introduction of holy orb to the E slot, I think great holy is a better weapon at accomplishing a similar task in 5v5.


      Druidic – (411 heal 20cd) The weakness of this staff is that the AoE healing is not comparable to holy orb and fallen E. However, this is the only other healing staff that had the potential to be better at something than fallen (due to its arguably better single target healing combined with protection of nature) and only if you were against a combo team that does large single target damage but has little AoE damage. On top of that, druidic is much harder to play and there are likely only 2 or 3 current players who could even pull off playing it in a way that was beneficial over using a fallen staff should the situation arise. The 20% HP buff should basically kill the remaining combo single target team strategies, which were already considered very weak and un-played to begin with, and with them druidic will also disappear. Combo and single target teams used to be viable, allowing druidic to be played, however, druidic was killed when holy orb was put on E and hasn’t recovered since. If you're facing a combo single target team, you should win regardless of the healing staff you play so druidic is basically useless right now.


      Redemption & Rampant – I don’t ZvZ so I have no comment.

      What I would do.

      If I were balancing, I would either increase the fallen E channel time to be much more significant (~3 seconds) to put it in line with how powerful it is, OR simply nerf the raw healing of the reset.


      The 20% hp buff should be reverted.

      It looks like the 20% hp buff was intended to be a nerf to deathgivers, as they aren’t new player friendly on the low IP introduced with the new IP caps (keep in mind that on high IP deathgivers aren’t useful because max HP scales 2x as fast as damage/healing). Instead of just nerfing the weapon directly, the ENTIRE GAME was changed instead. I feel like this approach is never a good idea, and I am very against the 20% hp/mana changed as I feel like this has slowed down the pace of the game too much.On top of that it was stated you increased the movement speed because you wanted to increase the pace of the game. I really don’t understand what the hp/energy buff was meant to accomplish, and I would love to see it removed.


      My 100% effective weightloss program designed specifically for Retroman.

      Retroman, if you ever read this, stop what you’re doing right now. Navigate your mouse to the top center of your screen and click on the big ‘ALBION’. Go under the dropdown labeled ‘TOOLS’, click on ‘KILLBOARD’. Click on ‘GvG MATCHES’. Go through the list and click on ‘DETAILS’ next to each GvG. Now find 2 black zone GvGs where the winning team did not have an infernal staff. Do not eat or sleep until you have finished. I guarantee you can lose at least 5 pounds using this method.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by sekcmustard ().

    • lmao

      i like how people say cd and heal amount, but they dont include how easy it is to deny it LOL

      dude, i hope you get ignored


      hey guys, 1h nature here, its not good because tank can displace you or your target, meanwhile while you play fallen you are immortal

      just play double healer, if you are bad at healing it will cover it up dont worry dude and you can win 99% of fights and dont feed sets like always

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Evas_Flarelight: Edited out the insults ().

    • Boedavildje wrote:

      sekcmustard wrote:

      Firstly, if you weren’t using a cultist robe with fallen, you previously had to be using mana reduction passives on your chest and shoes,
      I agree that the 20% energy change is huge for healers but I don't get how you arrive at people running mana reduction passives before the patch? That was not required at all.
      Unless youre wearing gear 2 tiers higher than the fallen or the fight was very one sided and short it was definitely necessary on non cultist robes. I found that when wearing gear 1 tier higher than the fallen, mana passives were needed, and I always used them myself. I'm not saying it out of my ass, its something I found to be better and adapted to as someone who uses the staff.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by sekcmustard ().

    • Read your post and as a non-healer I do feel like fallen is still just better than anything else at the moment.

      Single target burst comps are not nearly as powerful anymore and agree 100% with your infernal staff assessment.

      Something I don't understand is why hp/mana was changed and healing diminishing returns wasn't given another look. Double healer comps are much more common now than before and not as easily punishable in my opinion.