Combating Lymhurst AND Fort Sterling Monopoly. Join us!

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    • Neu

      I sent out my minions to gather valuable intelligence on the three monopolized cities. (I bid 1 silver on all the plots so that I get mail generated at the end of the auction) Then I used a powerful calculating computer to analyze the data thoroughly. (I added the numbers up in my head) The results for this months auction this are as follows.

      Lymhurst

      252M in bids
      63M silver set on fire to help raise the blood god

      Fort Sterling

      240M in bids
      60M silver set on fire

      Thetford

      250M in bids
      62.5M silver set on fire

      Total

      742M in bids
      185.5M set on fire

      Summary

      Not bad. I give this auction a C-. A lot of gold has come off the market lately and it seems like some of it, at least, is going towards bids. I don't think this is entirely based on the anti-monopoly contingent, but certainly some of it is. To absolutely no ones surprise. No bids were successful. This was never going to end quickly. These slimey slimers have got fat and rich off abusing players since the game launched and they have piles of silver in reserve. This is going to be a war of attrition as we work to set these reserves on fire. Of interest is that the bids in Thetford and Lymhurst mostly followed the balanced bidding across all plots theorem of bidding, while in Fort Sterling there was a lot more variance. Fewer plots took much larger bids, and some outer plots took essentially no bid at all.

      The most important thing is to not lose focus. 30 days feels like a long time, but it will be here again quickly and we need to be ready with more and larger bids. Tell your friends and relatives about how much fun it is to set scum bag plot owners silver on fire. Make it a community effort to get these carpet baggers to pack up their things and go play with the other big kids in Caerleon. The rim cities are for wobbly little traders and merchants, rock smashers, ore bangers, and rumble kids. Early game content is for early game players. All of the round tabler's and beta players who have been abusing the waves of new players need to grow up and move on. The only way to make them is to turn their risk free little investments into liabilities.

      On a personal note, I got overbid in a number of spots in Thetford this auction. Overbidding (multiple bids on the same plot) benefits ONLY the plot owners. It's terrible for bidders. I don't want any of these plots. I don't want to compete against other bidders. I just want to place the maximum amount of pressure with the least amount of effort on them. If you are trying to bid on and win plots in Thetford. Please just send me a message here or mail in game and give me as specific a description of the plots you are trying to win and I will just leave you to it. There is no reason for two of us to put 2-3M+ silver bids on the same plot, when doing so ends up costing the owners less silver overall. Its stupid and it makes me sad.
    • Neu

      Saya schrieb:

      @Piddle the methods and mechanics for accumulating wealth in Albion are the same for everyone... I don't think complaining about rich people ever made anyone richer, only more depressed...

      since the market is a zero-sum system, there will always be a winner and a loser in each transaction... rather than complain about the winners being "slimey", perhaps focus on a better trading strategy?

      as for your comments about cook taxes being 50-55%... you clearly have never owned one, nor have you bothered to calculate break-even tax... otherwise you wouldn't have selected the single least profitable building in the game as an example of greed... I won't bother explaining further here but if you want to find this out for yourself, I suggest some time on the test server...

      finally, to say that something is inevitable has no bearing on whether that something is morally right or wrong, nor whether it is proper or improper... any assumptions you derive from that are your own!

      for me, the plot system is simply a distraction from trading the markets, and also a way for me to give back to the community and especially newer players... but with the current system and a very slow fix schedule, I find myself less and less interested as time passes...
      What does "rich people" mean exactly? Whats the silver cut off these days exactly? Are you confusing "rich people" with "content denying monopolist price fixers". While a Venn diagram of rich people and content denying monopolist price fixers would certainly overlap, I only have a problem with people in the one circle and not the other.

      Does making the plot and station system sound super complicated make you feel smarter? Because acting like it is super complicated and you have to be some 200 IQ to understand it, is sort of funny to me. You also didn't deny price fixing. Did you mean to say you were only price fixing because otherwise you won't make any silver?

      Has to be hard to have been in the plot game for so long and still not know how to make money doing it without price fixing. A lot of plot owners don't know this, but you don't only have to make money through charging taxes. You can *also* use the station yourself to make money. It's like two entirely different profit streams! Maybe try making some food for people to buy, then you can use that extra money to not have to price fix.


      Did you need help with figuring out how much your gooses and gooses pies cost? I am something of a gooses expert at this point. Having bought and raised quite a number of them.
    • Neu

      When it comes to the effect on joe schmoe with the current city monopolies, its true that 30% taxes on relevant buildings isn't all that much. The worst of it is you will be sucked dry of all money when starting out as a noob that wants to do gathering and crafting - I've experienced this myself. Thankfully it doesn't take too much to sell off products and run around dungeon outskirts and silver chests.

      The biggest argument I can think of against monopolizers is that when It comes to owning property and climbing the hierarchy, your average higher - end player is going to be playing a whole lot longer than what's reasonable into getting their first property - there are a couple of reasons for this, one being that the amount of defensive money they need to go up against with monopolizers, the other being that their capital when buying a property can only be used against one tile effectively, thus meaning it's hard to spread your bet on who's going to fiercely defend, and who's going to give it up. Its also hard to know where your building will be profitable - you might snag a sale in bridge or martlock, but will you be able to actually compete at such low tax? I bring this up because of equal opportunity, a concept that is in our current real life economy, is something that should be upheld and explored in games. Assuming monoplizers are actually in the green (its hard to imagine when looking at the destitute state of lymhurst, but what do I know), the problem will only get worse as they accrue more money.
    • Neu

      @Piddle

      understanding buildings is quite easy as it is simply a matter of collecting nutrition and cost data, and is greatly aided by Excel... understanding the auction mechanics is slightly harder due to the monthly timing, but is still relatively simple once you get to play around with the bidding window...

      however, understanding the plot system is actually more complicated than most players think... and clearly more complicated than you think, judging from your comments in this and other threads on the forum...

      one of the major problems with the plot system is near-unlimited crafting capacity, which occurs because the game population is actually much lower than what the current 518 city plots can support... this leads of the problem of most players being forced to constantly lower taxes to remain competitive rather than to maintain a certain tax level or even increase taxes... the previously mentioned "race to zero" tax that perfectly describes this issue...

      the plot system is also 100% silver dependent, since no fame or premium is required to own and operate plots, and there are no material requirements other than easily obtainable rocks/stone blocks for construction purposes... while a certain level of adventurer is required to initiate upgrading of a building, inputting the materials does not, meaning that even this hurdle is easily bypassed...

      when you have an excess of building capacity, falling taxes, and an ever-growing money supply... is it any wonder that a monopoly structure eventually forms? as we have observed, a city monopoly only requires 12-24 actively maintained buildings to meet the demands of customers (see Lymhurst), it also removes the issue of new plot owners appearing and immediately dropping taxes due to all plots being inaccessible... lastly, there are very few things for billionaire market traders, gold traders, or long-time plot owners to invest in other than expanding their activities or jumping into the plot market as a status symbol or for fun... thus, monopoly is inevitable...

      I think the real purpose of this thread is less about plots than about wealth distribution... you can't sign up for a sandbox game where players, their successes and their mistakes have consequences, then complain about it when you personally don't benefit...

      and as for your comments about the Cook, and those delicious Goose Pies... I will let you decide whether I need your help or not xD



      Bank of Albion
      Investments & Third-Party Services
      Contact me via the Forums or Discord: Saya#4434
    • Neu

      @Saya stop defending this by saying it's a sandbox game. Not only this ain't a good excuse, but also at most it's a very very light sandbox game. As in the other thread, it's pretty funny how "it's a sandbox" excuse works only when it's in the favour of monopoly players. You almost insult everybody's intelligence by claiming that the system is complicated and we (non-plot owners) are not understanding it: we all know basic math and economy. Based on what happened this month, one person in Thetford paid at least 22.5m to keep all their plots, which means that their passive income from these buildings (they do absolutely nothing to get these money) is above this sum. This makes your whole discussion about plot owners struggles pointless. The plot system is so poorly implemented that I wonder what's the point to even have them owned by the players. Also, it's pretty obvious to everyone that you feel attacked by this thread.

      PS: @OregonTrail - just look around the town and go to the outskirts. Saya's buildings are in the center and she actually has the highest prices in Bridgewatch. Martlock is probably a better royal town tho: a lot less riskier to travel to Caerleon and even better prices.
    • Neu

      @Dacunetc

      while I respect your opinion, those statements are either assumptions or simply not true... it is pointless to continue this discussion, so I recommend you enter the plot market and experience it for yourself...

      as for Bridgewatch, I only just edited the taxes after the February auction two days ago, having not even looked my holdings there since early January... as I said above, slowly losing interest...
      Bank of Albion
      Investments & Third-Party Services
      Contact me via the Forums or Discord: Saya#4434
    • Neu

      The issue is that plot owners rarely break even, most plot owners offer the service to their alliance/guild as a bonus for being part of that alliance/guild. If you think that people are getting rich off the back of plots then I would suggest you think again, because that boat sailed at least a year ago. Having owned property in Bridgewatch and Caerleon the bids always exceeded my monthly income from the plot. So unless you own an entire town or multiple plots with good diplomacy it is very difficult not to lose money on plots.

      If you don't consider 15% return from the city fair for 26% tax then you can always have buildings on your own island and see how much fun feeding those is whenever you want to craft or refine. Trust me, it is no fun at all.

      I agree 100% with the point Piddle made, the Royal cities 'should' be for new players and the taxation should reflect as such with no monopoly, however as Saya rightly states the demand is lower than available supply in Lymhurst. I personally would like to see plot owners throughout Albion operating at a 5% profit margin to themselves after outgoings. I expect in most cases that means that tax costs for using city plots would be around 25% [obvious exceptions - cooks, alchemists and saddlers].

      So are we saying that 26% is the problem, or that one person owning a town is the problem, because they are very different things. I would also welcome any discussion about how much money people think that plot owners earn, my experiences tell me that other revenue streams actually prop up plots and not the other way round.
      Pre Patch 16 UO Player - Casual PK/Carebear Crafter - Now Old.
    • Neu

      letwolf schrieb:

      @Barathorn to be short, I have nothing against 26% or other numbers. But I'm against owning all town + using(abusing) extra 24 h owner bidding timer for purposefully chasing down other bidders anywhere in this town, just for not allowing them to have any plot (even the unused and farthest ones).
      That exactly proofed in Lymhurst.
      No-one is abusing the extra 24 hour bidding timer, it is how the system works so that the plot owners have a degree of protection from people bidding on plots who have more money than sense.

      All that has been proved so far regarding Lymhurst is that 1 person owns the town, and that ineffectively bidding on 1 plot doesn't achieve anything.

      I am unsure what you want me to say to you, it feels like we are just repeating ourselves now @letwolf , your original data was completely flawed and now you are surprised that your single bid was defeated out of hand.
      Pre Patch 16 UO Player - Casual PK/Carebear Crafter - Now Old.
    • Neu

      @Barathorn a bit of misunderstanding here, I bid on 4 plots (the one was far away and with 25m bid, others was 5m bid). That one was brilliant example of purposefully chasing even for the far and unused plot.
      Also other people helped me bidding on some other plots. So it wasnt a "Whoa, I bid one time and lost" scenario.

      It was a test for showing the current scenario "Anywhere you go, any reasonable amount you bid, you wont get anything. No matter where".


      If you definitely dont see an problem /barrier for any potential owners/ lockdown situation in Lymhurst, sorry, I cant explain it better for you.

      Only if you will want to test it yourself, come and try to get one plot (no matter where) in Lymhurst at next auction.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von letwolf ()

    • Neu

      Count me in! As Lymhurst's favored son and as someone who has recently been leveling several crafts to T8, I am disgusted by what is going on in my hometown of Lymhurst and am I high tired of the rapping by these price-gouging dbags! Let us boycott the likes of Saya and Ridler and let us support the good folks like Caelis and T4pp3r!

      So, fill me in... I'm sure it has been mentioned here, but how does the bidding work? If I bid 40 million on a plot and the current owner outbids me, do I lose the 40 million? Do I lose any portion of that 40 million? Restocking fee? Transaction fee?

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von Calesvol ()

    • Neu

      Barathorn schrieb:

      The issue is that plot owners rarely break even, most plot owners offer the service to their alliance/guild as a bonus for being part of that alliance/guild. If you think that people are getting rich off the back of plots then I would suggest you think again, because that boat sailed at least a year ago. Having owned property in Bridgewatch and Caerleon the bids always exceeded my monthly income from the plot. So unless you own an entire town or multiple plots with good diplomacy it is very difficult not to lose money on plots.
      So, someone who owns multiple plots in multiple cities for losses every month is doing so just to be part of an alliance? This just smells rotten. If plots are such a loss leader, then why are people so interested in monopolizing it? I just do not see how this is the case.
    • Neu

      Calesvol schrieb:

      Count me in! As Lymhurst's favored son and as someone who has recently been leveling several crafts to T8, I am disgusted by what is going on in my hometown of Lymhurst and am I high tired of the rapping by these price-gouging dbags! Let us boycott the likes of Saya and Ridler and let us support the good folks like Caelis and T4pp3r!

      So, fill me in... I'm sure it has been mentioned here, but how does the bidding work? If I bid 40 million on a plot and the current owner outbids me, do I lose the 40 million? Do I lose any portion of that 40 million? Restocking fee? Transaction fee?
      Hi!!! Thank you for joining us!!
      shortly:
      You lose nothing if owner or other person makes greater bid than you: all your money returns after auction end (however your money somewhat "hang" in there until auction ends).
      But occasionally, if monopoly decides to break (your bid still the bigger one), you will get a plot and then your money is gone :)
    • Neu

      Calesvol schrieb:

      Let us boycott the likes of Saya and Ridler and let us support the good folks like Caelis and T4pp3r!
      Caelis and I have been setting similar taxes in Bridgewatch for nearly a year now, due to the mirrored location of our plots in the north and south ends of the city...
      Bank of Albion
      Investments & Third-Party Services
      Contact me via the Forums or Discord: Saya#4434
    • Neu

      Calesvol schrieb:

      Barathorn schrieb:

      The issue is that plot owners rarely break even, most plot owners offer the service to their alliance/guild as a bonus for being part of that alliance/guild. If you think that people are getting rich off the back of plots then I would suggest you think again, because that boat sailed at least a year ago. Having owned property in Bridgewatch and Caerleon the bids always exceeded my monthly income from the plot. So unless you own an entire town or multiple plots with good diplomacy it is very difficult not to lose money on plots.
      So, someone who owns multiple plots in multiple cities for losses every month is doing so just to be part of an alliance? This just smells rotten. If plots are such a loss leader, then why are people so interested in monopolizing it? I just do not see how this is the case.
      You might not see how it is the case, I appreciate that a lot of people don't and for clarity not every plot is owned by a huge alliance or a person affiliated to them, but most are and the service offered from plots is often worth more than the loss of income from plots. Plots seldom make money, and most likely haven't done since steam release from my experiences. I however have no reason to lie to you, so you can either accept that I am also not happy with the way that the plot systems works and take what I am saying as it is intended, at face value. Or you can decide I am an evil overlord with nefarious intent spreading misleading information for my own personal gain /insert evil overlord laugh.

      I have given you the facts, the decision is up to you.
      Pre Patch 16 UO Player - Casual PK/Carebear Crafter - Now Old.