AO2D feedback and discussion

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    • Neu

      DildoSwaggings schrieb:

      Filter by resource tier? Could be a good idea, couldn't find the option :)
      You mean something like being able to find clusters that contain resource X of tier X?


      CassX schrieb:

      Hi,in old version in craft calculator i can see how much fame give me crafting specific items and how much fame i get for study.In new version this is not implement.Do you planned add this option?
      Oopsy doopsy! Will fix that :thumbsup:

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Cathair ()

    • Neu

      @Cathair

      I'm back in the office and ready to go with more knowledge and insight.

      First off I need to crush some dreams:
      Your assumption for which preset to take from the resourcedistpresets.xml for Alderwood is wrong. Let's look at Alderwood to stay with this example: Alderwood is a Tier 5 (T5) forest (FR) outland (OUT) wilderness (WLD) cluster in Cumbria (MED - since Cumbria is in the mid-outlands, low being Anglia and high being Mercia). That means we need to take T5_FR_OUT_WLD_MED for our resource distribution.
      In general your assumption of high resource nodes being cluster tier +1 and low nodes being cluster tier -1 is correct, sometimes this rule is broken for balance reasons though. For example, lower outland (Anglia) T5 clusters contain a few T7 resources in their high resource nodes as well because there aren't any T7 clusters in Anglia. This rule of thumb only applies to the outlands as you've pointed out. For the royal continent it's just you said: high nodes=cluster tier, med= cluster tier-1, low=cluster tier-2. Again, exceptions may occur for balancing reasons!

      Next up, I'm referring to this sentence: "But those represent only the POSSIBLE spawn points, not the amount of actually active nodes."
      Yes, you need to decide on what you want to display with the numbers: the amount of possible spawn points or the amount of active nodes. That is something only you (and the users of your website) can decide on.

      Active nodes is pretty straightforward, just like you correctly laid out before: just look at a resource distribution preset (like T5_FR_OUT_WLD_MED for example) and look for all mentions of a certain tier for each resource. You will see that "tier="6"" does appear in the high, medium and low resource node blocks. Simply count them all together and you will get the amount of active nodes at any time. For example T6 hide: 150 from high + 24 from medium + 16 from low = 190 t6 hide nodes active at any time.

      Displaying the number of possible spawn points should be manageable somehow as well, but it might be hard to map the resource distribution preset to the number of high/med/low nodes, since a high node may spawn a t5 or a t6 or a t7 for example. I just realized that this may actually be the biggest flaw in the visualization, since you can't guarantee which tier a node will spawn... So you might be better off with just coloring the high, medium and low nodes instead of binding them to specific tiers?

      Your visualization of spawn points will only be able to display the possible node locations though, unless you'd read out the data every day from our server which would make this whole thing illegal. ^^

      Sorry for potentially crushing hopes and dreams. But I still hope this helps you understand the logic behind this. I'm trying to compress the first few weeks as a level/game designer into a few forum posts here after all... :D

      - Lino
    • Neu

      @Cathair but if one man visit e.g. Alderwood himself, and he gets valid Json from server, containing all real node locations, it is legal to read it and publish at your server ?
      As they stated before, "Our position is quite simple. As long as you just look and analyze we are ok with it. The moment you modify or manipulate something or somehow interfere with our services we will react (e.g. perma-ban, take legal action, whatever)."
      @H4n1baL ?

      p.s. sorry if my thought was not-very-helpful, its just a brainstorm idea to save Cathair's great work and effort

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von letwolf ()

    • Neu

      H4n1baL schrieb:

      @Cathair

      I'm back in the office and ready to go with more knowledge and insight.

      First off I need to crush some dreams:
      Your assumption for which preset to take from the resourcedistpresets.xml for Alderwood is wrong. Let's look at Alderwood to stay with this example: Alderwood is a Tier 5 (T5) forest (FR) outland (OUT) wilderness (WLD) cluster in Cumbria (MED - since Cumbria is in the mid-outlands, low being Anglia and high being Mercia). That means we need to take T5_FR_OUT_WLD_MED for our resource distribution.
      In general your assumption of high resource nodes being cluster tier +1 and low nodes being cluster tier -1 is correct, sometimes this rule is broken for balance reasons though. For example, lower outland (Anglia) T5 clusters contain a few T7 resources in their high resource nodes as well because there aren't any T7 clusters in Anglia. This rule of thumb only applies to the outlands as you've pointed out. For the royal continent it's just you said: high nodes=cluster tier, med= cluster tier-1, low=cluster tier-2. Again, exceptions may occur for balancing reasons!

      Next up, I'm referring to this sentence: "But those represent only the POSSIBLE spawn points, not the amount of actually active nodes."
      Yes, you need to decide on what you want to display with the numbers: the amount of possible spawn points or the amount of active nodes. That is something only you (and the users of your website) can decide on.

      Active nodes is pretty straightforward, just like you correctly laid out before: just look at a resource distribution preset (like T5_FR_OUT_WLD_MED for example) and look for all mentions of a certain tier for each resource. You will see that "tier="6"" does appear in the high, medium and low resource node blocks. Simply count them all together and you will get the amount of active nodes at any time. For example T6 hide: 150 from high + 24 from medium + 16 from low = 190 t6 hide nodes active at any time.

      Displaying the number of possible spawn points should be manageable somehow as well, but it might be hard to map the resource distribution preset to the number of high/med/low nodes, since a high node may spawn a t5 or a t6 or a t7 for example. I just realized that this may actually be the biggest flaw in the visualization, since you can't guarantee which tier a node will spawn... So you might be better off with just coloring the high, medium and low nodes instead of binding them to specific tiers?

      Your visualization of spawn points will only be able to display the possible node locations though, unless you'd read out the data every day from our server which would make this whole thing illegal. ^^

      Sorry for potentially crushing hopes and dreams. But I still hope this helps you understand the logic behind this. I'm trying to compress the first few weeks as a level/game designer into a few forum posts here after all... :D

      - Lino
      Welcome back! clap

      No worries, no dreams crushed — I never intended to publish the actual nodes, only their possible spawn points!

      Regarding the distribution preset name — yeah, I just realised I posted it from another cluster than of the screenshot.
      The logic is correct though, thanks for validating it.

      Regarding the coloring — ha, that's a good point actually.
      I will re-color-code everything again :thumbsup:

      Your explanations shed a lot of light on the subject, and I really appreciate your time.
      This will also be a good reference for the future.


      Something else — now that I'm almost done with maps, I will build a gear comparing tool. For that I need to know the formulas for stats calculations.
      Maybe you know someone who could help us with that? Reverse-engineering the tiles data was nothing compared to the formulas used for the stats :/

      P.S. What does "low/medium/high" mean anyway in terms of the nodes?
    • Neu

      letwolf schrieb:

      @Cathair but if one man visit e.g. Alderwood himself, and he gets valid Json from server, containing all real node locations, it is legal to read it and publish at your server ?
      As they stated before, "Our position is quite simple. As long as you just look and analyze we are ok with it. The moment you modify or manipulate something or somehow interfere with our services we will react (e.g. perma-ban, take legal action, whatever)."
      @H4n1baL ?

      p.s. sorry if my thought was not-very-helpful, its just a brainstorm idea to save Cathair's great work and effort
      As mentioned, the position of SBI is not "as long as you only read data and not modify it we are ok with it", but rather "all players expect to be on the level ground without anyone at the unfair advantage".

      On the other hand it is arguable that if everyone had access to the same information it can still be considered unfair :D
    • Neu

      About formulas: I think Retroman is gonna post something for you :)

      About the resource nodes:
      We placed a number of high/medium and low nodes in all templates to have a bit more control over where high/medium and low tier resources will spawn. Since in a T5 royal cluster high nodes are the only ones able to spawn T5 for example, you can influence in which areas T5 resources appear the most. A lot has changed over the years since I was a level designer, but I think in general it's still correct to say: often the areas that are the hardest to reach or furthest away from the roads contain the most valuable resources or a higher density of these. The few dead-ends that we have are a good example of where you should find a higher density of high tier resources.
      In other clusters these nodes might not spawn T5, but T7 or T4 resources, but they will always be the most rare/valuable resources you can find in that cluster. So we're guaranteeing that they always spawn more in places that we intended to.
      Glad the information was helpful. :D

      - Lino
    • Neu

      @H4n1baL clap

      So in the end I decided to color-code everything as "low/medium/high" regardless of the tier. It will be up to the user to make sense of this data, but I will add a note that higher nodes generally spawn higher tiers of resources. Thank you for the observation and endless clarifications!

      I've got another question in this quiz and I'm hoping you could point me in the right direction.

      I am trying to link mobs to clusters, but I cannot figure out which XML files to use for it. I would like to fulfil the following use case:
      • Someone is curious about Adept's Giant Stag :thumbup:
      • They check crafting requirements and see there's Adept's Tame Giant Stag required :thumbup:
      • They see it can be grown from Adept's Fawn :thumbup:
      • They see it is dropped by Giant Stag :thumbup:
      • They want to know where to find Giant Stag ?( :?:
      I'm missing this final link in the chain to deliver this wonderful user experience.

      I tried searching for HIDE_STEPPE_GIANTSTAG (this is part of the mob's uniquename) and I found some information in the cluster/world.xml file that it can be found in Steelhide Meadow and Deadvein Gully, but I am not sure how reliable and up-to-date this data is, since I couldn't repeat the same logic for the Direwolves. :cursing:


      Kindly asking for guidance <3
    • Neu

      Oh boy. I think your way with the cluster/world.xml is correct if you're looking for fixed spawnpoints that level designers placed. Without having it verified, my assumption is that there are some fixed spawnpoints for the giantstag in steelhide meadow and deadvein gully, but 99% are random spawnpoints.

      But if you're looking at randomly placed mobs (random spawnpoints) it gets way more complicated:

      First you'd need to find out the correct mobname you're looking for. (T4_MOB_HIDE_STEPPE_GIANTSTAG)
      Then you need to find out in the tiles.xml which spawnpoints may use your mob. (SpawnPoint_Steppe_GIANTSTAG)
      Then you need to take a look at the resourceprefabmappings.xml to find out which random spawnpoints mappings use the spawnpoint you've found out before. (<hide tier="4"> in all steppe clusters basically)
      Then you need to map the information of the high/med/low nodes you've gathered for the map before to the corresponding spawnpoint mappings you've found out in the resourceprefabmappings.xml. So we've found out that the stag can spawn on any map that has steppe t4 hide node availability. With the data you've gathered before you can identify that for example all steppe clusters on the royal continent on tier 4, 5 and 6 are able to spawn giantstags. In tier 4 clusters, only high resource nodes can spawn the stag, in t5 clusters the medium ones and in t6 clusters only the low resource nodes can (unless specified differently due to some exceptions). That is because of this rule of thumb if you remember: for royal it's usually high nodes=cluster tier, medium=cluster tier-1, low=cluster tier -2.
      For outlands it's completely different and the mapping may be a lot more complicated.

      But yea, I think that's essentially it...

      - Lino
    • Neu

      So basically I ended up with 3 (so far) scenarios (simplified).
      1. "Normal" hide mobs — Rhino — can be found on the clusters that match requirements from the the resourceprefabmappings.xml
      2. Other mobs — Deranger Poacher — can be found on the clusters that match requirements from the randomspawnbehaviors.xml
      3. "Abnormal" hide mobs — Old White — couldn't find any info on them neither in resourceprefabmappings.xml nor in randomspawnbehaviors.xml so I just filtered by the clusters where they have their spawnpoint tiles mentioned.


      P.S. No consent from was given by the mobs to share their location. Use at your own risk! :evil:

      P.P.S. Would be cool if someone could verify this! :thumbup: